Schooner's (Mostly Maritime) Musings

[Schooner]

Trucks'n'Trows  ...Trading Ketches:

Ep. 3: Smurzet

 

We're looking at the delivery of new wagons to the West Somerset Mineral Railway on its re-opening under the Somerset Mineral Syndicate, 1907, Wachet. I've not found very much information on the event, wagons or vessel - although apparently it caused enough of a stir to be photographed and so seems likely to have been covered by the local rag etc. Does the wagon contruction give anything away?

 

 

I've been at Watchet partly for trow-spotting, it falling within their range, but mostly because I had a bit of time this evening and fancied a little quick layout design*. I had no idea about the WSMR, and have just spent a happy hour getting aquainted.

 

The railway existed solely to get iron ore from mine to works. The mines were on Exmoor (sort of) and the works happened to be in Ebbw Vale. This meant the ore went by rail to Wachet, via a rope worked incline which is now a scheduled ancient monument, by sea to Newport, and by rail again to destination. The WSMR opened 1861 - was in decline 1870s - mining ceased 1883 - line closed 1898 - re-opened 1907 with narrow gauge extension - re-closed 1910 - used for automatic braking trials 1910-1914 - rails lifted for scrap 1917 - narrow gauge light railway laid to carry timber 1918 - all closed for good 1920. Yes please!

 

All this and much much more can be found in the good wiki page and outstanding dedicated website, from which all images come. The gallery of 1357 photos, maps, elevations, plans, surveys and pit cross-sections is brilliant. If any of this is even a little interesting to you, please go and have a look at it. There's even a bit of broad gauge goodness courtesy of the neighbouring GWR for those who are that way inclined, and LNWR converted tank engines for those who attented the latest meeting of the CA Parish Council. I'm getting straight back into it...!

 

Cheers all,

 

Schooner

 

*As hoped, many features [forced] in[-to] a modest [YMMV] space - something like 9'x9' U plan nets you the pier, quay, both yards, station and loco shed in 00. Storage yard not included. Based on

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

Does the wagon contruction give anything away?

 

A mixed bag of second hand! The one being lifted out of the ketch is dumb-buffered (and possibly just one wooden brake block)* and has an antique arrangement of the end longitudinals one above the other, with the drawbar inbetween - compare the other wagon in the first photo, with its end longitudinals either side of the drawbar.

 

*This wagon or similar. Note the end pillars extended below the headstocks - it's come from a location where primitive chauldon or trolley type wagons were in use.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Compound2632

[Annie]

Ah the West Somerset Mineral Railway.  For a while now I have been rebuilding an old Trainz layout based on the Minehead branch during the 1880s and while the original builder got a good many things right about the Minehead branch of that era, he entirely left out the West Somerset Mineral Railway.  Ever since I became aware of the WSMR and its history I've been wrestling with the dilemma of whether or not to build it into  the layout or not.  There's certainly no lack of information about the WSMR, but even if I was to cut corners and do a fair bit of cheating it would be one heck of a task to put it where it should be on the layout.  Watchet would have to be just about entirely rebuilt for a start.  

[AdamsRadial]

On 12/06/2021 at 23:39, Annie said:

Ah the West Somerset Mineral Railway.

I had a stab at this in 15 years ago in MSTS and then in the Kuju successor Railworks. The successor failed abysmally because if you tried to make a wagon or van go down the 1-in-4 incline it failed to adopt the correct gradient, and also because to properly work Watchett harbour andRoadwater you need a shunting horse. MSTS did actually offer some of these, plus Wayne Campbell's (of ORTS fame) excellent method of doing a funicular, but was getting quite dated in appearance by then (16-bit colour for the rendering meant loads of moire when you tried to do fine detail, and hopeless terrain texturing). A plus for TRS2004/6/TC is actually how nice the lines can still look.

 

The biggest problem with those MSTS/Railworks, as with Trainz, is the trouble you encounter trying to do very narrow trackbeds, especially when they are in close proximity to streams, almost sheer-sided banks, and other features, the 10-metre resolution means you get cuttings and embankments that are far too wide. even Trainz still suffered from this, I couldn't find  way to reduce their width.

[Tom Burnham]

Even Colonel Stephens became involved with the WSMR, albeit right at the end after most of the track had been lifted.

[Schooner]

@Tom Burnham All I'm really hearing there is an excuse for an Ilfracombe Goods...

 

Did a bit of poking around over the weekend:

• Ingleford plan suggests a full-depth canal*. Potentially suitable resin here.
• " " " a wooden platform between shed and quay roads. Plan A was to use these from Skytrex, but with supports made from individual sleepers/baulk to let the light through. Plan B has emerged courtesy of Poppy's WoodTech. Neither are quite what I had in mind, but the dimensions work.
• Finally rebuilt the Docklands plan in SCARM. Slight changes only**.
• Found a lot of good stuff (plans, descriptions and photos) for Thames barges of the 1880s (as for wagons, read 'from the 1850s'). Should help set the scene for South Dock being the tired, outdated and run-down place it was.
• Remembered Unicorn, a Leda class frigate (sister to Trincomalee) launched in 1824, and indecently original for an old girl closing her second century afloat. Uniquely of her fellow survivors she was never rigged but served always in ordinary, and so is an excellent resource for someone wishing to model HMS President (1829 edition) as she was 1862-1903 - a training ship in ordinary, parked at the Eastern end of West India South Dock.

Sorry for lack of leavening pica, working off my phone.

 

Cheers and gone!

 

*to allow for full-hull ship models so they can exist independently from the layout. Fully expect them to become waterline models only when plan comes into contact with the enem-...sorry, "reality".

** MER circuit rationalised to give a hidden passing loop capable of holding five-carriage football specials, and sidings to store them and parcels tail traffic when not in use***. Inner quay (South Dock 'proper') circuit removed for veracity, space and to encourage the operating well to suggest two distinct scenes. Timber yard siding fed off a curved point to give more space for engine shed. Pic to follow when next with my laptop.

***Needlessly, it turns out. I was busy working out how many of the reported 2,000 Millwall Rovers fans might've arrived by train when I realised the lads from Morton's first started playing as Millwall in 1885. The layout was set in March 1884, to match Cutty Sark's first arrival in London loaded with an Australian wool clip, and allow for full steam working of the MER and South Dock railway network (from 1883). Subject to review

[alastairq]

13 hours ago, Schooner said:

Remembered Unicorn, a Leda class frigate (sister to Trincomalee) l

 Hmmm,  Trinco became TS Foudroyant...My last Ex-wife sailed on Foudroyant when a youngster.....gollygosh!

[Schooner]

For one night only, in meatspace as in SCARM, back to London and back to layout design:

 

Those who have been following this project will recognise it in general and in detail. To those looking at the Grand Plan for the first time, the above is a representation of West India South Dock and environs, set in the mid-1880s. South Dock Station is on the right, and that area is fairly accurate. Millwall's enormous grain depot is on the left, and is representative only. In between are various buildings (warehouse, transit shed, timber shed, rail goods depot (lower left) etc), again representative, and water craft ranging from the Cutty Sark to Thames sailing barges and lighters. The pink length bottom centre is a cassette. Engine shed bottom right. It looks complicated, but isn't really - just a set of four simple end-to-end layouts superimposed and then joined up at the back! Hopefully the below explains:

 

Millwall Extension Railway circuit. In reality, a service of two trains shuttling between Millwall Junction and North Greenwhich stations, passing at South Dock station. On the layout, a service of two trains running opposing circuits, passing at South Dock on one side and a loop+storage sidings on the other. Automation planned.

 

Goods circuit. In reality a vast range of goods vehicles moving adjacent to the MER between the various Poplar rail yards and Millwall Docks and Isle of Dogs industries. On the layout, three trains which can represent North- or South-bound traffic through the modeled area, with locos running around (via cassette road, route not shown)/running light as required. Automation planned.

 

Shunting circuit. The main operator activity #1 on the layout - taking short trains of six or so wagons from the two storage sidings (inside radius tracks, bottom) and shunting individual wagons to locations representing quay, tranist shed and warehouse. The three funny little sidings on the right are lifted from the real thing. No idea how they were actually used, but the plan is for them to act as a micro-nook shunting puzzle and/or utility sidings for temporary wagon storage etc.

 

Spotting circuit Activity #2 is the movement of short cuts (three wagons) between three short sidings in the yard (again, inned radius at the bottom) and various quays, 'industry' sidings (eg. grain and timber) and storage locations. Timber, for instance, will come from the Baltic via schooner (upper left of the operating well) and be taken to the timber yard siding (lower right, outside radius) with internal-use wagons; in time, Railway Company wagons will collect it from that siding and send it out to the network. A similar cycle exists for grain.

 

The idea of splitting shunting and spotting is to acknowledge the reduced access and visibility* of this circuit; and to allow for link couplings within each fixed cut - couplings on the ends will, I fear, have to be tension-locks to deal with the tight radii**. If any cut is to be shunted (eg. to represent the flow of empty and full wool wagons to the Cutty Sark), then this can be done with those three little sidings on the right.

 

I'm at home with the idea of shunting the storage yard/goods depot being an activity in itself to be done as required (see *), and to this end it will be a fully scenic'd. It's a big, involved layout, for sure...but mostly the operator sits in the well merrily punting wagons around them as goods and passenger trains trundle around their respective circuits at intervals to (I hope) maintain the illusion of being a small part of a much larger whole.

 

Sorry for lack of better presentation and supporting info - in a bit of a rush. Quick turnaround tonight and off again too early tomorrow morning, and I wanted to get these plans posted so I can refer to them over the next month or so.

 

Closing bit of info for Ingleford: The rail-served wharf at Stonehouse (off the MR's Nailworth branch, on the Stroudwater) is the only one along the entire network. I've recently read, although I forget where, that it was a contractual requirement of the branch line's existence. Although all the photos I can think of show some stock on the siding, nearly every mill had its own siding anyway, every station had a goods yard, and every wharf continued to exist: I can't imagine it was greatly used. In terms of layout planning, this information has limited impact - the whole concept is a sham, and leans on actual locations only lightly. Still, I had wondered about it, and now have an answer.

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

 

*Envisioned as taking up one end of a dedicated shed, with access to operating well via duck-under (top) from the door and full access to the bottom. The remaining space, c.4', allows for modelling desk, storage etc. Still wondering how to deal with the lower dock, which has grown to accomodate a full-sized President, but currently think to have the ship models mounted on brackets, fixed to the sides, whilst the water-with-lighters-attached can be lowered away and moved to give occasional access as required.

**Circuits are R2 or greater, but some of the quay access is via R1 or under. Can't see it being a problem for short stock and tiny 0-4-0Ts.

 

EDIT: I should probably mention that the real flow of traffic around the docks actually works very well for the modeller. Company trains exchanged wagons at vast yards outside the dock. These were then marshalled by a company tank loco into trains for each dock or rail depot and, under the PLA at least, these ran as scheduled trips to their destinations - smaller yards on Dock property, or their 'home' depots. Here the train was again marshalled, by a Dock Co. loco, per quay or shed and taken to the required area three times a day - typically before 08.00, over the lunch break, and after 17.00. On the quays the individual wagons would be spotted by man, horse or loco as required. The same in reverse for outbound traffic. It is this general flow I hope the layout can run, even if there is only one yard.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Schooner
Spelling, background

[Schooner]

Another quick turnaround, but time for a small update. Easily done.

 

The news is: there is no news.

 

Ticking into the ninth month of waiting for RH BH points. Everything else functional is present, correct and ready to go. At this  point  juncture I'd welcome pointers a lead to any vendor who may have them in stock, but I suspect the lack of supply isn't a purely Hattons problem.

 

The layout is now boxed for safe keeping, but the plan hasn't changed significantly since it was last out in the open:

 

All very WIP, obviously, but constructive feedback welcome as ever, if something stands out. September likely to be busy, but no firm plans for after. Fingers x'd for some modelling time before long.

 

Cheers, thanks all for keeping this forum a very pleasant corner of the internet!

 

Schooner

[Mikkel]

It does looks good. I'm reminded of Phil Parker's Ruston Quays, which I've often been tempted to copy. Yours is more airy and spacious of course. 

 

It must be frustrating being stalled by the lack of a single point. On the plus side, I see the carters have parked their vehicles in preparation for business 

[Edwardian]

Looks brilliant.

 

Is it a Peco turnout? Peco seems to have mucked up manufacture spectacularly, having not so much closed temporarily due to Covid, but, seemingly, managing to saw its leg off and burn its factory down in the process.  No one else I've heard of in the industry seems to have allowed itself to be so dislocated.  Supplies of track of any kind just ended for months, and the new BH range seems to have been the chief casualty. 

 

However, Ebay Listing, someone has one!

 

Others who might (not all suppliers show when items are out of stock, I have found): 

 

Addlestone

 

Mykelasg

 

Britannia - a US supplier, so more expensive, plus shipping back across the herring pond, but apparently in stock, so needs must when the Devil vomits in your kettle.

 

[Regularity]

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Peco seems to have mucked up manufacture spectacularly, having not so much closed temporarily due to Covid, but, seemingly, managing to saw its leg off and burn its factory down in the process.

I believe that are dependent on some small operators in their supply chain, and that these small operators have been badly hit by Covid.

Still, as “business continuity” is becoming the issue of the moment, maybe they need to invest in something, somewhere. Who can tell - it will all be down to internal, sensitive corporate information, and if we knew about that, we either wouldn’t be able to talk about it (being an employee) or they would have bigger problems (lack of protection of corporate sensitive information!)

[Schooner]

On 01/09/2021 at 05:18, Mikkel said:

I see the carters have parked their vehicles in preparation for business 

Indeed! I'm thinking of going for that Cirencester scene front and centre...and hoping the fact it is literally under the operator's nose is enough to stop it being the main focus of the entire layout. We'll have to see how it looks when the time comes for the next round of mock-ups. Thanks for excellent information on modelling trees by the way, yet another valuable missive from Farthing which I'll certainly be referring to in future.

 

On 01/09/2021 at 07:29, Edwardian said:

Looks brilliant.

Thank you, kind of you to say - even though there's a long way to go, and I've messed up far easier things!

 

Perhaps greater thanks for your help in finding a supplier. Between that and a very kind offer from another RMWebber, I think that should be track requirements dealt with. With a little luck, this means I should next get home to baseboards, underlay, track, turnouts, point motors, accessory motors*, power supplies and controller with wire and time enough to link the whole lot up.

 

Then, trains shall be played at length  

 

*the plan is to motorise wharf gates, crane and something else, linked to the switch levers, to indicate the set of the turnouts. Maybe.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Schooner

[Schooner]

Let joy be unconfined:

 

So, to work!

 

Layout topic

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Schooner

[Edwardian]

 

[phil_sutters]

On 01/09/2021 at 07:29, Edwardian said:

Looks brilliant.

 

Is it a Peco turnout? Peco seems to have mucked up manufacture spectacularly, having not so much closed temporarily due to Covid, but, seemingly, managing to saw its leg off and burn its factory down in the process.  No one else I've heard of in the industry seems to have allowed itself to be so dislocated.  Supplies of track of any kind just ended for months, and the new BH range seems to have been the chief casualty. 

 

However, Ebay Listing, someone has one!

 

Others who might (not all suppliers show when items are out of stock, I have found): 

 

Addlestone

 

Mykelasg

 

Britannia - a US supplier, so more expensive, plus shipping back across the herring pond, but apparently in stock, so needs must when the Devil vomits in your kettle.

 

They have found time to illustrate their manufacture in their 75th birthday hand out with this months RM.

[Schooner]

Is this now? What a month... Anyway.

 

 Next week I shall be home again, all being well, having had plenty of time to think through next steps for Ingleford and with serious intent to do some modelling.

 

Buildings wise, I'm not sure the Wills Timber Yard will do (nice idea, just too small). I've treated myself to one of these...

to go in its stead, to the RHS of the stables - both from Severn Models. I hope having adjacent buildings from the same manufacturer will aid coherence; and that the workshop building will smooth the transition between the half-timbered 'old wharf' buildings to the right and the tin-roofed 'new wharf' shed on the left.

 

Whilst shopping, I also saw their mechanical point levers and decided to get a few. These can then be used as subtle indicators for the set of the turnouts (which will be motorised), as I'm going off the idea of motorising yard gate/crane/etc. Some walling from Anyscale for the old wharf (I already their brick canal sides for the new), and a couple of the new two-wheel carts from Langley complete the postie's burden...for now! Looking forward to it.

 

Continued thanks to Parishoners all for keeping up a stream of interesting, informative and much appreciated distraction. Ideal

[Schooner]

Galling sensation of watching the intended flight home depart with at least one empty seat on board.

 

Back soon. Layout updates soon after.

 

[Schooner]

Back home next week (this time I mean it), accidentally bought a brace of Rails early Minks in celebration.

 

At least it decides the running-gear-colour question for me!

 

No news layout-wise but I came across two handy pics for the inspiration folder, linked here for safekeeping:

 

http://www.stroudwater.co.uk/pikebridge/pike bridge trow and nb c1910.jpg

 

With that stern, she's almost certainly not a trow but a barge - coal from Bullo Pill? - in a very similar spot to that on the layout. Donkey-towed longboat equally typical, and also to be referenced.

 

 

The same wharf (Eastington, a little West of Stonehouse on the Stroudwater Navigation), with helpful views of the wharf edging, coal stack (note also the carts), towpath and gate. These gates were a feature of the Stroudwater, the towpath running through open fields, which I'd like to include.

 

More soon!

Edited November 22, 2021 by Schooner
PS. Phone only atm, sorry if pics are tiny/low rez - can't tell!

[Schooner]

Method check please:

 

Underlay is down (over the whole baseboard, as per the plan). So I think my next steps are:

• modify points as required to enable them to be laid toe-to-heel (remove tie-bar extensions, trim sleepers)
• solder feed wires to the stock rails, to wire the points to the Cobal iP Analogue point motors (along with the factory-fitted frog feed)
• mark out the track position on the board - particularly pointwork
• make holes in the underlay and baseboard for feed wires and point motor
• lay track (to be glued down with copydex and kept weighted until it can be ballasted)

...play trains!

 

If any could confirm I'm not about to do something stupid, I'd appreciate it. Brain's a bit dead, and only just beat the black dog home. Got the door shut in time but the 's still skulking about outside. Hoping some positive progress with the layout will be a useful thing

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

[MrWolf]

That certainly sounds logical. I can't confirm it though without consulting my sense of absolute logic and she's at work...

 

Consider the number of power feeds that you need and double it is all I would add.

[Schooner]

While my phone and laptop are sorting out their differences so I can upload some pics of Actual Progress, a quick update on the Port of London Plan:

 

Rationalised storage/fiddle yard

Returning to standard PECO track centres has made room for a fourth 'train' loop. I was perfectly happy with three, but four would allow for all the railway companies with depots at Poplar to be represented (GWR, with whose depot shed the yard will be disguised/excused, GNR, LNWR and MR) which is nice. Each is to have its own tank loco, to run the train 'inbound' (clockwise) or outbound (anti-) as dynamic scenery. A bit bullocks for South Dock Station, but a feature of the wider Poplar area which I'd like to be able to nod towards, and longer trains toward the Millwall docks and industries passing through South Dock absolutely would have been a thing.

 

Revised MER passing loop

 

Odd formatting, sorry! The other passing loop on the MER circuit has altered slightly to allow a full 5-car football special to be run around as well as passed. Up until now, the Millwall Junction - North Greenwich shuttle was to be depicted by two seperate trains circulating in opposing directions, passing at the scenic South Dock Station, and a non-scenic/hidden passing loop on the other side of the layout. Requirements for this may change, and running around - to simulate the terminus at North Greenwich) may be desired because...

 

...South Dock now comes with 50% Extra FREE!

Much to my surprise, there's room for a decent representation of Millwall Junction Station in the corner of the layout I've never quite known how to handle. It fits, it works, it makes more sense of the rest of the layout in that area...it's too much but it's staying!

 

Ingleford STOP PRESS to follow:

[Schooner]

 

 

 

Inglenookage!

Edited December 3, 2021 by Schooner
Photo banter

[Mikkel]

Very nice, I like the cross-cutting colour scheme that's emerging that's on the buildings. 

 

Brick loaded wagon too, hadn't noticed that before.

 

[Schooner]

The last couple of days have seen:

• Headshunt, quayside road and entry/exit track re-laid to a more pleasing curvature
• Point motors and levers wired up (two out of three working; blamed my soldering but wasn't able to fix and ordered a replacement. Cheating, but quick.)
• JSM 'Old Mill' building window'd, door'd and roof'd
• Canal edge re-angled slightly and generally tidied up, and facing materials cut to size (Wills Random Stone, Dressed Stone and Anyscale's Canal Bank;
• Had a bit of a play with the scenery and got bit of practice laying setts, using the tool by @Giles 
• Bit of painting and fettling and making some up little bits and bobs
• Quite a lot of playing trains  Can't even claim it as testing - one faulty switch but otherwise it all works a treat. The W4 is a little babe, and the wagons are all behaving.

 

Misc pics:

 

 

 

 

But look, who cares? On to the important stuff - some early MR good(s)ness linked from Grace's Guide:

 

...which is almost totally irrelevant to me  However, that last one and the painting below...

 

...are the guides for my little Manning Wardle H Class, which will be coloured and lined likewise, shy of better info. (I prefer this darker green to the coloured postcards both as a colour and as a match to the photos here and elsewhere - notably the results of searching for 'green livery' in the Study Centre catalogue!)

 

Whilst on the subject of the Midland early stock set for Ingleford, below is an updated roster of 8 standard wagons + 3 wildcard for feedback, please:

• Kirtley brake 
• 1-plank, LNWR D.1 
• 3-plank, early  x 3 (empty; sheeted; unsheeted)
• 3-plank D.305 
• 5-plank, early 
• 5-plank D.299 
• Meat van D.370 
• Goods van, LNWR D.32
• Timber wagons, LNWR D.13

All to be sourced from Mousa Models. Twice the three-planks to five-planks which I think is about right for mid-1880s and about twice the opens to anything else. For reference, the previous iteration, with an equal number of three- and five-planks, looked like:

 

Think that'll do for now, thanks for popping by

 

Schooner

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Schooner
Pics