Unknown location

[Old Gringo]

A bit more digging concerning your superb collection of photographs of the 'death' of The Leek and Manifold Valley Light Railway!

 

We can date most of the demolition pictures to between February and July 1937, when Sir Josiah Stamp (LMSR President) officially opened the track-bed as the path for us all to enjoy! 

 

George Cohen's Limited had the contract to remove the track and turn the track-bed into the pathway (and perhaps hired the photographer to take a few of these shots?)  Closer study of the set shows most of the views with 'naked' trees and therefore they were taken in the Spring of 1937, probably April when the work would have been well underway and after Cohen's had bought the engines.

 

So far the set starting with Photo. 9 - shows Hulme End, track lifted, stoning in progress and finishes at Waterhouses, with the short transporter wagon in Photo. 5.  Between these photographs, we have the OP. photo., which Andy Y. also identified as Butterton, with the locomotive, "E.R. Calthrop" on the demolition train, plus the motor cars; then we have photographs 4, 6, 7 and 16 all bridges; then photos: 11 and 13 identified by Phil and others as the crossing of the A523 at Waterhouses.  

 

As you have already discovered Photo. 7 is Bridge number 2 at 28c, "a single skewed span of 41 feet, plate girder underbridge" over the River Hamps, near the A523 road crossing.

 

Photo. 16 is Bridge number 3 at 72c, another skew span of 24 feet plate girder underbridge over the Hamps, on a 1 in 190 gradient, entered off a sharp curve with a check-rail.  Now, when identifying pictures for Kidderminster Museum, we are not supposed to speculate (just stick to facts dear boy, as somebody famous once said!).  But, what if photos 16 and 6 are the same bridge, to establish how it was before the track was lifted?  And photo. 4 is also Bridge number 3, after the track has been lifted with the sharp curve now in the background?

 

That leaves Photo. 10, a 'freshly ballasted' section of track curving to the right with a section of retaining wall supporting the track alongside the dry riverbed.  A photograph taken by Henry Casserley on 28th June 1933, has "J.B. Earle" passing this section of retaining wall and captioned as near Waterhouses (?), which would put it alongside the River Hamps, somewhere between Sparrowlee and Bridge 3  (Ref: The L&MVLR, Stanley Jenkins, Oakwood, 1991, page 89).  Also in this book are several more pictures shot by Casserley in the Spring of 1934, with very few leaves present on the trees.

 

The other three pictures (numbers 8, 12 and 15) are standard gauge shots, 12 and 15 taken in high summer.  Photo. 8 is not Swainsley tunnel as this is shorter and straight.  However, IIRC, the tunnel on the Churnet Valley section, near Leek Brook Junction is slightly curved.

 

The photographs are a superb find and I hope the information proves useful.

 

Have you any more unidentified pictures that might be of the L&MVLR, or the surrounding area?  

 

 

 

[carlwebus]

Here are some other "maybe" images I have re Leek and Manifold (numbered mostly):

 

Image 17: This certainly narrow gauge and with a transporter wagon in shot  right. To my knowledge the L&M only had one van type wagon (low  wagon underframe with centre door body and end vents).  This looks like it - so maybe one more identified!

Image 18: Looks like its taken from a  moving train somewhere near the crossing of what is now the A523 (see the rotating   disc  signal picture 11 I sent previously) 

Image 19: Could be L&M : on the moorland?  (Stone walls etc look right)?

Image 20: Again looks  right for walls and moorland (from moving train)?

Image 21: Could be L & M : moorland/ walls  etc.  If it is bridge No 8 (numbering  from Waterhouses to Hulme End) it should be north of Sparrowlee station? There should be some current evidence of remains of the stone walls shown running at right angles to the track?  There is a very good  video on youtube of a modern fly-along the route and I cannot see any evidence of the stone walls at that location . Of  course these pictures were  taken early 1930s  so all traces of these  walls might have  disappeared in the interim?

[Edwin_m]

19 and 21 look more standard gauge to me - and isn't that a bit of a second track intruding into the left hand side of 21?  

[bécasse]

Apart from the obvious photo of the L&M van, the other shots all look as if they may well be on the Settle & Carlisle.

[SD85]

Agree with the poster above. I can't place all of the shots but 18 and 20 are definitely on the S&C. 18 is I think taken from the train looking over Mallerstang towards Mallerstang Edge. 20 is taken from the train at Birkett Common at the top of Mallerstang, between Birkett Tunnel and Kirkby Stephen, looking more or less east towards Mallerstang Edge in the background. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by SD85

[carlwebus]

Many thanks  to all  responders especially Old Gringo, SD85, becasse, and Edwin_m.

 

This has really helped me to identify the locations of this group of photos from a bundle purchased at the local auction.

 

The van is definitely the only one that the L&M had.  I've confirmed that from the Turner book  which I have just acquired on eBay from a Hospice  shop.

 

I've also noted the photo in the Turner book of the train waiting for the crossing at what is now A523. 

 

Just one query on Old Gringo's comments  about the dating of the photos.  The pic in the Turner book of the crossing of the A523 shows only one gate and Old Gringo says the other was taken out by a runaway lorry on 18 April 1932.  Surely that late on in the life of the line the company would not have bothered to replace it? Does that mean that the photo was taken before April 1932?

[Fat Controller]

13 hours ago, SD85 said:

Agree with the poster above. I can't place all of the shots but 18 and 20 are definitely on the S&C. 18 is I think taken from the train looking over Mallerstang towards Mallerstang Edge. 20 is taken from the train at Birkett Common at the top of Mallerstang, between Birkett Tunnel and Kirkby Stephen, looking more or less east towards Mallerstang Edge in the background. 

The Staffordshire Alps are impressive, but somewhat less spectacular than the hills in the later photos.

[Old Gringo]

On 10/06/2020 at 12:24, carlwebus said:

Many thanks  to all  responders especially Old Gringo, SD85, becasse, and Edwin_m.

 

This has really helped me to identify the locations of this group of photos from a bundle purchased at the local auction.

 

The van is definitely the only one that the L&M had.  I've confirmed that from the Turner book  which I have just acquired on eBay from a Hospice  shop.

 

I've also noted the photo in the Turner book of the train waiting for the crossing at what is now A523. 

 

Just one query on Old Gringo's comments  about the dating of the photos.  The pic in the Turner book of the crossing of the A523 shows only one gate and Old Gringo says the other was taken out by a runaway lorry on 18 April 1932.  Surely that late on in the life of the line the company would not have bothered to replace it? Does that mean that the photo was taken before April 1932?

 

Hi Carl,

 

As it is a legal requirement that the railway be fenced and gated and therefore, (although probably not very busy) because the L & MVLR was not under immediate threat of closure in 1932, the gate would have been replaced fairly quickly.

 

Edit: Under a magnifying glass the other gate is present in Turner's book and the fireman is opening it (hidden by the gatepost).  Then he will open the other gate for the train to cross the A523, followed by him having to close them before drifting off down the valley Magic!

 

It was replaced by 1933 as there's a reference to "the fireman closed the gates"  on the fourth page of Chapter 4 (Death) of Turner's un-paginated (!!) book, where he publishes part of an article from J.Thorton's work "The Peak; some people and places" written in the summer of 1933.

 

Thanks again for posting the photographs,