Bachmann Pannier Tanks

[Wilko1972]

Hi everyone,

 

Are the Bachmann Pannier tank engines accurate representations of the originals?

 

Kind regards,

 

Wilko 

[Steamport Southport]

Yes. 

 

 

 

Jason

[Quarryscapes]

Yes, as usual a little extra detailing work wouldn't hurt. 

[JohnR]

I think it really depends on what standard you are modelling to. For some, they could do with some additional detailing, especially to represent individual members of the class. But for many, they will be very accurate representations. 

[Wilko1972]

Brilliant, thanks very much.

 

Having had some baseboards built for me I'm now building a layout based very loosely on Haworth but in the preservation era. So essentially anything goes!

 

Thanks again for your replies. I dare say there will be plenty more similar questions coming from me as this is my first ever layout at the grand old age of 47.

[lofty1966]

Far more authentic than the Triang derived Hornby version!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, Wilko1972 said:

... I dare say there will be plenty more similar questions coming from me as this is my first ever layout ...

Let me anticipate one.  There's more to it than appearance.

 

If you want superior running, Bachmann's 57xx/8750 are the better choice of the two class groups of panniers they currently produce, having a mechanism with one of the wheelsets sprung, which aids better power collection.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm anticipating a different question due to mention of Haworth. 

 

They've done 5775 a few times in various guises if that's of use.

 

BR Black as 5775 is due soon. https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/gwr-57xx-pannier-tank-5775-br-black-(late-crest)/32-216a

Previously done in GWR Green

London Transport Red as L89

 

Also in GNSR livery as in the Railway Children film. Available in a train pack with a couple of carriages and a model of Oakworth station. Ref 30-575. You might still find it in stock.

 

They also did 41241 in K&WVR Maroon as a collectors edition. It does pop up quite often second hand.

 

There is also this beauty.

 

http://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/p/53714/MR-108-MR-Bachmann-USA-0-6-0T-Steam-Locomotive-number-72-KWVR

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

Bachmann panniers are the mutt’s nuts.  The limitations of 00 aside, they are to scale, as accurate as anyone has a right to expect from volume produced RTR, and run beautifully.  I have 5 on Cwmdimbath, and a 6th using the Baccy mech, a rechassised Lima 94xx; this mech will have a 57xx body acquired for it when Baccy’s new 94xx eventually shows up.  64xx are slightly out of period for my location, but probably run well enough for auto work. 
 

There is room for improvement, and a mark against them IMHO is that the body tooling has a moulded top feed so you have to have that whether you like it or not.  I have removed this from one of my 57xx, but it’s a faffy job and not for the faint of heart; such butchery on such a lovely tooling feels all sorts of wrong.  
 

Etched number plates, replacement lifting rings for the tanks, brass smokebox darts, decent lamp irons, real coal, sliding cab side shutters, and crew are in my view easy and worthwhile improvements. Some folks like to replace chimneys, domes, and safety valve covers with turned brass retrofits, but I find these perfectly

acceptable as supplied.  The cab shutters are easily made from sheet card glued to the inside of the cab; if you really want to be accurate you can put the little handle on as well, and the runners, but it is not easy to see them inside the cab and I haven’t bothered.  The shutters slid back to a point just ahead of the door opening, to protect against crosswinds when the loco was standing. 

[Wilko1972]

Thanks for all your replies. I'm trying to use the 2nd market to purchase locomotives where I can. This hobby is not cheap, especially when you have a mortgage to pay and children to get through Uni! Thanks again.

[Wilko1972]

26 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Bachmann panniers are the mutt’s nuts.  The limitations of 00 aside, they are to scale, as accurate as anyone has a right to expect from volume produced RTR, and run beautifully.  I have 5 on Cwmdimbath, and a 6th using the Baccy mech, a rechassised Lima 94xx; this mech will have a 57xx body acquired for it when Baccy’s new 94xx eventually shows up.  64xx are slightly out of period for my location, but probably run well enough for auto work. 
 

There is room for improvement, and a mark against them IMHO is that the body tooling has a moulded top feed so you have to have that whether you like it or not.  I have removed this from one of my 57xx, but it’s a faffy job and not for the faint of heart; such butchery on such a lovely tooling feels all sorts of wrong.  
 

Etched number plates, replacement lifting rings for the tanks, brass smokebox darts, decent lamp irons, real coal, sliding cab side shutters, and crew are in my view easy and worthwhile improvements. Some folks like to replace chimneys, domes, and safety valve covers with turned brass retrofits, but I find these perfectly

acceptable as supplied.  The cab shutters are easily made from sheet card glued to the inside of the cab; if you really want to be accurate you can put the little handle on as well, and the runners, but it is not easy to see them inside the cab and I haven’t bothered.  The shutters slid back to a point just ahead of the door opening, to protect against crosswinds when the loco was standing. 

Thanks for your very detailed reply. I imagined that it would be difficult to stick anything inside the cab given that the entrance into the cab looks to be on the small side.

[The Johnster]

Once you separate the body from the chassis (careful with the feed wires from the pickups), things are much easier.  If you are buying secondhand, they seem to fetch around £60-70 on ‘Bay.  But they are quantum better than Hornby 8750s.  Take care you are not sold a Mainline/Replica 57xx; NEM Bachmann profile couplings indicate a safe purchase. 

[scratcher]

Quote

On 08/04/2020 at 16:11, The Johnster said:

...a mark against them IMHO is that the body tooling has a moulded top feed...

 

Funny but I was looking at my one yesterday and wondering whether to have a go at removing it. My period is late 1930s and I believe they were fitted from 1942 onwards. The problem is not so much the removal of the top feed itself, but the piping that runs along the top of the tanks then down the side.

[PMP]

6 minutes ago, scratcher said:

Funny but I was looking at my one yesterday and wondering whether to have a go at removing it. My period is late 1930s and I believe they were fitted from 1942 onwards. The problem is not so much the removal of the top feed itself, but the piping that runs along the top of the tanks then down the side.

They’re not particularly difficult to do, sharp Scalpel knives and wet and dry paper to complete. Just take your time, definitely don’t rush it, and don’t use crap tools. The task is identical whether it’s from the 57xx or 64xx family 

 

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, scratcher said:

Funny but I was looking at my one yesterday and wondering whether to have a go at removing it. My period is late 1930s and I believe they were fitted from 1942 onwards. The problem is not so much the removal of the top feed itself, but the piping that runs along the top of the tanks then down the side.

The problem is that, once top feeds were introduced, they were on boilers in pools, so could be fitted to locos that had initially not had them, and conversely boilers with no top feed could be retrofitted to locos that had initially had them at overhauls when boilers were replaced.  This is because a loco can be overhauled and returned to traffic where it earns revenue and frees up a workshop bay more quickly than it's boiler can be overhauled and hydraulic tested in the presence of a Board of Trade certified boiler inspector.  The boiler fitted at overhaul would simply be the first one picked from the store pool.  So, the only locos we can be certain about are early builds prior to the introduction of top feed boilers on new locos until their first overhaul, which we know had NTF boilers, and late build withdrawn before their first overhaul, which we know only ever had TF boilers.  TF boilers tended to replace the older NTF boilers over time, as because more new ones were built they came to outnumber NTFs in the pools.

 

Other than that, one has to rely on dated photographic evidence of proven provenance, or best guess pending better information.  Classes affected are 57xx/8750 and their derivates, which had a common boiler pool with the 2721s (but AFAIK no 2721 ever had a TF boiler). 54/64/74xx, and 48/58xx which shared a pool with 2021s, (but AFAIK no 2021 ever had a TF boiler either).  16xx were also part of this pool but I doubt any ever had an NTF boiler; some were withdrawn having never been overhauled.

 

I have removed the TF and associated plumbing from one of my Baccy 57xx, modelled as 5707 as running in late GW/early BR condition.  I have no idea what sort of boiler this loco carried at that time, but it wouldn't have been the NTF it was built with, so I've taken a punt, and will refit the TF and plumbing if better info comes to light.  I also have 5756, which has been photographically verified with TF for period in post 1949 BR livery, and 6762, 9649, and 9681, all built new with TF and not overhauled at my period (1948-58).  I have an old Hornby 2721 as 2761, withdrawn 1950 with NTF verified by dated photo as well.  

 

I wish there were RTR panniers available without TFs (the Hatton's 48/58xx is NTF) as they are a PITA to remove and easy to retrofit.  But all the Bachmann toolings have TF, as does the old Triang Hornby 8750, not that I'd give that layout room anyway. 2761 is bad enough.  It would be a good loco to practice TF removal from, though.  The job is faffy rather than difficult, and the worst part is the initial savagery with the Exacto on the lovely Baccy tooling.  New blade, take your time, and cut as close to the tank and boiler top as you can.  I found a hooked blade best for removing that long run of feed pipe across the tank top, and you have to be careful with the other tank top detailing.  Removing the pipe where it goes underneath the tank just in front of the cab to join the injector plumbing is probably not worth the effort once you've done the first ¼" or so.  Rubbing down seems endless before you get it right, and of course the loco will have to be repainted to hide the scars, but it's the sort of thing you can do on a tray in front of the tele.  

 

Tomparryharry, of this tomparryharrish, is doing it by using the tank and boiler top piece tooling of a Triang Hornby 2721, but still has to manage the tank side and bit underneath and slicing the entire top off a Baccy 57xx seems a bit extreme and risky, but it'll be interesting to see how he gets on.  We'll have to be patient until he's finished building his shed, though.

[The Johnster]

On 17/04/2020 at 16:40, The Johnster said:

 

I have removed the TF and associated plumbing from one of my Baccy 57xx, modelled as 5707 as running in late GW/early BR condition.  I have no idea what sort of boiler this loco carried at that time, but it wouldn't have been the NTF it was built with, so I've taken a punt, and will refit the TF and plumbing if better info comes to ligh

 

Update on this; better evidence has come to light in the form of photos in John Hodge and Stuart Davies' co-written 'Tondu Valleys' books.  5707 certainly had a TF at this time, but i have found another prototype and renumbered the model, as 5797, which had an NTF boiler with BR unicycling lion livery in the early 50s.  This loco also has another anomaly, which I have modelled, a top front lamp bracket attached to the smokebox door instead of the usual position in front of the chimney on the  smokebox top.

 

I like to include as much variety in livery and detail when I have more than one of a class in service, and am trying to identify an 8750 from Tondu with an NTF boiler during my period.