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hayfield

Converting 00 gauge bogies to EM

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I am building a Southeastern Finecast SR 02 to EM gauge

 

77.jpeg.5f913e59ca116b752dd6fb6d97acbff8.jpeg

 

I have no problems with the chassis but the trailing bogie may be throwing up some issues, As you can see its a simple drop in design, but is only just over 10mm wide, given EM gauge back to backs are 16.5mm there is a wapping 6+ mm of travel side to side,

 

Given that EM chassis are about 14.5 mm wide should these trailing bogies be much wider, if so should they match the chassis at 14.5 mm ? What do others do?

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I think that I would cut plasticard spacers to match the outline of the casting on a suck it and see basis, until I was happy with the running, but I would expect somewhere close to the 14.5mm at the finish.

 

 

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I, perhaps, would have increased the width of the bogie by scratch building a brass spacer, the axle keeper plate would still retain the wheelsets. Having said that it may be too late so Plasticard may be the way to go.

 

All the best!

 

kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Thanks both, its a 3 piece casting but I would have thought its too narrow for even 00 gauge, I think as you both say increase the width to 14.5 mm, though even this is very generous. I just wondered if there was a technical reason foe it being so narrow

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2 minutes ago, dhjgreen said:

I used plasticard tube slit (carefully to avoid A&E) and then slipped over the axles.

That works mechanically, but will look odd, I suggest, given that bogie frames are usually tight behind the wheels.

 

I too would either make longer frame stretchers or, as Siberian Snooper suggests, cut styrene sheet to act as spacers.

 

Mark

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Mark

 

I have just twigged, slit the main part down the centre make a brass spacer the correct width to stretch it to 14.5 mm wide then put everything back together, or just make side extensions out of plasticard which may be both quicker and easier. Or just scratch build a new one.

 

Thanks all.

 

No one has come up with a technical reason not to, so I presume its OK

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4 hours ago, hayfield said:

Thanks both, its a 3 piece casting but I would have thought its too narrow for even 00 gauge, I think as you both say increase the width to 14.5 mm, though even this is very generous. I just wondered if there was a technical reason foe it being so narrow

 

Its probably that narrow to allow the loco to negotiate set track type bends. What kit is it?

 

 

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I think the Wills 02 kits had wider trailing bogies, I've got a couple of them somewhere dating back to 1968. The patterns for them were made by Ron Parren, former chairman of The Model Railway Club.

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Good evening 'hayfield'. I don't know what or who's wheelsets you are using but if they utilise the 2mm. industry standard axle then twist the wheels off and then pack them out with Peco 2mm. fibre washers each side of the bogie until you reckon you have enough to centre it. However, firstly use a larger 2mm. brass inner washer against the frame before the fibre washers. Carefully, and with equal pressure on both the ends of the wheelsets squeeze them very gently into the bogie frames whilst twisting them slowly together on the axle until the bogie frames centralise. Use a bit of spit on the axle ends ends if necessary!!  Two of the most useful items to be had in the 2 wider gauges in 4mm. locomotive building wise, are the Peco 2mm. and 1/8" Peco fibre washers. They can be 'thinned' by careful use of flat fine needle files or emery clad homemade 'sticks' to slightly reduce the thickness (caliper) of the material. Plasticard spacers may seem the obvious answer but unless you can turn or cut off 4 of the exact length spacers then use the washers. Regards. HL   

Edited by harry lamb
Missed the brass frame side washer.
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An EM bogie is actually easier to do than an OO one. A  cast white metal 0-4-4T is inherently tail heavy and so the chassis usually has two issues, one is stopping the back of the loco swinging too wide, high or low on curves and the other is keeping the wheels turning while picking up power.   This bogie is ridiculously narrow, almost like it started off as TT gauge.

The optimum is to make a new chassis with brass side frames and an insulated centre to take split axle wheels so they pick up through the bearings with no drag.  EM gives an extra 1.5mm over OO for the insulated sleeve to grip the axle.   If you don't fancy this some thick PCB cut to match the profile of the chassis sides to widen them will give somewhere easy to fix and insulate the bogie pickups.   To keep it on the curved and narrow I would suggest allowing as little sideplay as you can get away with.  I stick the loco on my sharpest radius, 3rd radius, and make sure it just gets round. You might not need any sideplay at all on 30" radius EM with the short wheelbase of an 02.  The tail heavy nature means the bogie has to carry some of the weight of the loco, Ideally it  supports the back of the loco chassis and equalises the weight on the axles, otherwise one axle won't revolve due to the drag of the pickups,   Ideally  I would use the spring the bogie downwards from long coil springs  mounted above the loco chassis.  Car alternator brush springs are good, something which exerts near equal force over a long travel. I would put them in brass tubes poking well up into the coal bunker allowing a couple of mm up and down should be enough for beautifully smooth track like yours!  Again use the least you can get away with, or the loco will either derail its leading drivers constantly, or not pull the water off a ducks back as so much weight is on the bogie and none on the rear drivers.   Best of luck My M7 took months to get right.    Its why most of these 02 kits were built as G6 0-6-0Ts...

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Comet do kits for bogies, but I don't know whether the wheelbase will match

 

 

David

 

Thanks, I had the same thought but I need one with a 5' wheelbase,  Comet's smallest is 6'3". I do have a used frwt for one with side frame overlays, which I might cut down

 

8 hours ago, harry lamb said:

Good evening 'hayfield'. I don't know what or who's wheelsets you are using but if they utilise the 2mm. industry standard axle then twist the wheels off and then pack them out with Peco 2mm. fibre washers each side of the bogie until you reckon you have enough to centre it. However, firstly use a larger 2mm. brass inner washer against the frame before the fibre washers. Carefully, and with equal pressure on both the ends of the wheelsets squeeze them very gently into the bogie frames whilst twisting them slowly together on the axle until the bogie frames centralise. Use a bit of spit on the axle ends ends if necessary!!  Two of the most useful items to be had in the 2 wider gauges in 4mm. locomotive building wise, are the Peco 2mm. and 1/8" Peco fibre washers. They can be 'thinned' by careful use of flat fine needle files or emery clad homemade 'sticks' to slightly reduce the thickness (caliper) of the material. Plasticard spacers may seem the obvious answer but unless you can turn or cut off 4 of the exact length spacers then use the washers. Regards. HL   

 

Harry

 

Thanks, I bought some brass washers for 2mm axles and also have some Peco fiber washers, but 4mm in my mind is a bit of a large gap

 

 

7 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

An EM bogie is actually easier to do than an OO one. A  cast white metal 0-4-4T is inherently tail heavy and so the chassis usually has two issues, one is stopping the back of the loco swinging too wide, high or low on curves and the other is keeping the wheels turning while picking up power.   This bogie is ridiculously narrow, almost like it started off as TT gauge.

The optimum is to make a new chassis with brass side frames and an insulated centre to take split axle wheels so they pick up through the bearings with no drag.  EM gives an extra 1.5mm over OO for the insulated sleeve to grip the axle.   If you don't fancy this some thick PCB cut to match the profile of the chassis sides to widen them will give somewhere easy to fix and insulate the bogie pickups.   To keep it on the curved and narrow I would suggest allowing as little sideplay as you can get away with.  I stick the loco on my sharpest radius, 3rd radius, and make sure it just gets round. You might not need any sideplay at all on 30" radius EM with the short wheelbase of an 02.  The tail heavy nature means the bogie has to carry some of the weight of the loco, Ideally it  supports the back of the loco chassis and equalises the weight on the axles, otherwise one axle won't revolve due to the drag of the pickups,   Ideally  I would use the spring the bogie downwards from long coil springs  mounted above the loco chassis.  Car alternator brush springs are good, something which exerts near equal force over a long travel. I would put them in brass tubes poking well up into the coal bunker allowing a couple of mm up and down should be enough for beautifully smooth track like yours!  Again use the least you can get away with, or the loco will either derail its leading drivers constantly, or not pull the water off a ducks back as so much weight is on the bogie and none on the rear drivers.   Best of luck My M7 took months to get right.    Its why most of these 02 kits were built as G6 0-6-0Ts...

 

David

Thanks for the confirmation of a wider bogie unit, I think first off I will try widening the chassis first, then see if I can fit pickups to one side. I am using SEF's etched chassis but have substituted the chassis spacers for EM Gauge Society ones, and have ensured to have a base to spring fit the bogie

Edited by hayfield
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I have used the technique of packing out a chassis with washers for P4 and believe me it gets tedious. Best to give each washer a thin smear of grease, not to lubricate it but to hold it in place. The damned things keep on slipping off the axle else.

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John,

Further to this, for 2mm axles it think I'd use 2mm bore tube rather than washers. You will need just too many washers as they're very thin.

 

Eileens is still open I think

 

Cheers

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David

 

Thanks but if I leave the bogie unit so thin the wheels will be sticking too far out from the frames (will look like a Hot Wheels car) 

 

My main concern was that there was a reason in keeping it so narrow, as it seems OK to widen it that will be my first option

 

I may at a last resort ask Dave Ellis, but I guess its something that was chosen by the etched chassis designer

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On 09/04/2020 at 10:32, PenrithBeacon said:

John,

Further to this, for 2mm axles it think I'd use 2mm bore tube rather than washers. You will need just too many washers as they're very thin.

 

Eileens is still open I think

 

Cheers

 

A tip I got from somewhere (possibly originating from Tony Wright) was to use sections of used (ie clean) biro inner tube which is 2mm ID and cuts easily - see attached pic of the bogie from my Bachmann BR 4MT 2-6-4T converted to P4.

 

HTH.

 

Alasdair

12c - 80113.jpg

Edited by AJCT
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4 hours ago, hayfield said:
4 hours ago, hayfield said:

Thanks but if I leave the bogie unit so thin the wheels will be sticking too far out from the frames (will look like a Hot Wheels car) 

 

Yeah can see this and I came to the same conclusion once. An alternative is to use Evergreen strip to bulk out the sides and then do a cosmetic side frame from 10thou plastic. That works.

Cheers

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