North-eastern place-name with 'hermitage' theme?

[Alex TM]

Hi folks,

 

Are the any place-names in the North-East of England that are derived form a word meaning 'hermitage'?

 

I am currently doodling a couple of ideas for a layout; the design takes a plan from one part of the UK and transposes it to another.  I would like to try and keep something of the original place-name in the new location, as well as using a real place.  As the original has a name derived, I'm told, from a word 'hermitage', I wondered if there were any place-names out there in the north-east of England?  I am particularly thinking somewhere such as County Durham.  I've tried a few random online searches but to no avail.

 

Thanks for any pointers.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Alex TM
Correcting place name translation.

[Les Bird]

I'd guess the nearest you're likely to find is "Abbey"

[crackedmember]

Nearest I can think of is Monkton, just south of Jarrow.  It is reputedly the birth place of the venerable Bede.  There is also a Bedes Hill which also claims this.

[Steamport Southport]

St James Park.....

 

They've been wearing hair shirts since 1955.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

[HLT 0109]

Alex,

 

Havae a look at synonyms for "hermitage" in this link https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/hermitage It may trigger a few thoughts that will bring other possibilities to mind.

 

Harold.

[Orion]

Try this site

 

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/durham/vol2/pp130-131

[stovepipe]

The monastic places nearby that spring to mind are Finchale ('Finkle'), Ebchester, Jarrow and in Yorkshire Mount Grace

[MarkC]

Finchale was the name that first came to mind here too

 

Mark

 

[zarniwhoop]

I note that you want to use the name of a real place - I guess you think people will know that name and relate to where that is, even if your model is somewhat different from the current reality. If that is your definite view then you do not need to read the rest of this post, and I'm sorry for interrupting your thread.

 

But generally I think that plans and decisions need to be questioned in the early stages, to make sure that the planner will feel happy with the eventual outcome. e.g. I've never heard of Finchale until now, and I think I might have difficulty looking at a Jarrow layout that was not an approximation of the real place.

 

As somebody who thinks that place names can be key in setting where a layout is supposed to be, naming interests me. For example (LBSCR Sussex names), -ing names (the followers  or people of) are common and many of these came from the early South Saxon settlers. And then we have -ington (probably a walled settlement) such as Aldrington, Washington, Wilmington, etc (and perhaps Willingdon - names do get corrupted over the centuries)  and -ingham (apparently, in Sussex, from hamm, a bend on a river, so Beddingham and Erringham).  Similarly, for a prospective line across the Sussex Weald a name such as Forge Lane might be appropriate (and one day I might get a round tuit on that, as a narrow gauge line on a former standard-gauge branch, some what like the South Tynedale railway).

 

But different parts of the country spoke different tongues - Wessex Saxon tended to have different place names from South Saxon, and in North East England the language would probably have either been Danish or perhaps Cumbrian (Penrith is not North East, but I don't know how far East the language extended). I assume Danish placenames might be predominant, but with a smattering of earlier Saxon names.

 

OTOH, 'Abbey' seems a "modern" word, typically associated with the Normans ;-) If that is the period where the original name came from, then fine.

 

Out of interest, what was the original word derived from hermitage ?

 

More generally, if you can create a name which is plausible for the area and the period when the settlement was originally established, then I suggest you do so - just because the name doesn't exist in that area in real life doesn't mean that you can't have a layout called that - it might have once existed, but then been wiped out by the black death or one of the other plagues, or been extinguished in the wars of the roses or the English civil war.

 

History is there to serve a purpose, and as a layout owner you can decide on the purpose (although people modelling real locations will take a different view).

 

ĸen

Edited April 9, 2020 by zarniwhoop
spleling

[john new]

4 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

I note that you want to use the name of a real place - I guess you think people will know that name and relate to where that is, even if your model is somewhat different from the current reality. If that is your definite view then you do not need to read the rest of this post, and I'm sorry for interrupting your thread.

 

But generally I think that plans and decisions need to be questioned in the early stages, to make sure that the planner will feel happy with the eventual outcome. e.g. I've never heard of Finchale until now, and I think I might have difficulty looking at a Jarrow layout that was not an approximation of the real place.

 

As somebody who thinks that place names can be key in setting where a layout is supposed to be, naming interests me. For example (LBSCR Sussex names), -ing names (the followers  or people of) are common and many of these came from the early South Saxon settlers. And then we have -ington (probably a walled settlement) such as Aldrington, Washington, Wilmington, etc (and perhaps Willingdon - names do get corrupted over the centuries)  and -ingham (apparently, in Sussex, from hamm, a bend on a river, so Beddingham and Erringham).  Similarly, for a prospective line across the Sussex Weald a name such as Forge Lane might be appropriate (and one day I might get a round tuit on that, as a narrow gauge line on a former standard-gauge branch, some what like the South Tynedale railway).

 

But different parts of the country spoke different tongues - Wessex Saxon tended to have different place names from South Saxon, and in North East England the language would probably have either been Danish or perhaps Cumbrian (Penrith is not North East, but I don't know how far East the language extended). I assume Danish placenames might be predominant, but with a smattering of earlier Saxon names.

 

OTOH, 'Abbey' seems a "modern" word, typically associated with the Normans ;-) If that is the period where the original name came from, then fine.

 

Out of interest, what was the original word derived from hermitage ?

 

More generally, if you can create a name which is plausible for the area and the period when the settlement was originally established, then I suggest you do so - just because the name doesn't exist in that area in real life doesn't mean that you can't have a layout called that - it might have once existed, but then been wiped out by the black death or one of the other plagues, or been extinguished in the wars of the roses or the English civil war.

 

History is there to serve a purpose, and as a layout owner you can decide on the purpose (although people modelling real locations will take a different view).

 

ĸen

Agree with the above.

I think picking a road name suffix for your station or piece of line might work better. Two examples that are mainly located in the north east, St Helens Square and St Helens Street. Finkle already mentioned, try Finkle Street.  
 

Searching for the name on the places option in 192.com will bring up a locations map.  It is surprising doing that, given St Helens (I.e. the modern Borough of) is in Lancashire that  most of the SHS entries mentioned above are east of the Pennines and north of the Trent. The two exceptions are in Caernarfon and Workington respectively. 
 

Finkle Street shows 16 entries, all in the English north and 12 east of the Pennines.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by john new
Punctuation errors.

[Brit70053]

 The use of 'Finkle' in posts above is only an indication of the local pronunciation of Finchale  near Durham.

 

Regards,

 

                John

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Many thanks for all those helpful, and interesting, suggestions and links.  The material on place-name origins is fascinating.

 

The layout will be, to an extent, based on the plan at Dyserth (LNWR, North Wales), though moved to somewhere in the North-east.  It will have a railway company owned goods shed, and farmers co-operative buildings too.  I've yet to work out what to do with the quarry line.

 

[There are a couple of places with names like the above, my nearest being in Fife.]

 

The layout will not be using the name of a place that, historically, did have a railway.  Like others I prefer models named after real railway towns to have, at least, a passing resemblance to the real thing.

 

Again, thanks for all the ideas.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[zarniwhoop]

Sorry to cast doubt on the hermitage derivation, but http://www.llandrindodparish.co.uk/8.html suggests that the Welsh Diserth means a deserted place.

 

Of course, hermits lived in deserted places.

 

According to wikipedia on Cumbric  (the word I originally wrote, then assumed I'd been mistaken and changed to Cumbrian), cumbric placenames are found in the areas of Northumberland bordering what was Cumberland, but that might be too far to the West for you.

 

ĸen

[Alex TM]

Hi Ken,

 

I had always been taught that names like Dyserth and Dysart meant deserted, etc.  However a recent web-search (https://www.geographyinaction.co.uk/) suggested that the 'desert' part of it was more of a metaphor than a literal thing, and that it was drawn for the place being a location for a hermitage.  Then again, traditionally, hermits often sought out deserted places (you can see this going round in circles).  However you look at it the imagery all interrelates.

 

Once more, thanks for all your insight and help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[43110andyb]

A hermitage of sorts at St John’s Chapel, Co Durham.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5408279

[crackedmember]

Actually forgot about this one.

 

I know this is a bit late but Dyserth means something like deserted place, so what about "No Place"!.

There is an actual village of this name between Stanley and Beamish in County Durham.

 

 

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

That must be the strangest place-name for any place where I have actually been (Passed through it twice in one day last year).

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Oldddudders]

I must be missing something here. What about Hermitage itself? Yes, I know it's just on the wrong side - i.e. your side - of the border, but modelling people have moved locations further than that. It didn't have a station, but was not far from the Waverley Route, hardly a difficult railway to identify with. And virtually within sight of Kielder Forest, a Border amenity of great attraction. 

[Steamport Southport]

On 22/04/2020 at 12:22, crackedmember said:

Actually forgot about this one.

 

I know this is a bit late but Dyserth means something like deserted place, so what about "No Place"!.

There is an actual village of this name between Stanley and Beamish in County Durham.

 

 

 

The problem is there is already a model railway using the name No Place.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98444-no-place/

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

Cell

 

Isn’t that what hermits traditionally lived in?

 

Might be linked to the Irish ‘Cill’, as in Kildare, meaning ‘church’.

 

 

[Alex TM]

Scots Gaelic place names see the same thing - e.g. Kildrum (modern English) - church/cell on the ridge.

 

[We tend to use the word 'church' in a more indiscriminate way than in the dark ages or early medieval period; this means that we sometimes refer to something as a 'church' that more properly was a 'cell' or 'chapel of easement' - one of the less dull lectures that I experienced went into this in fine detail.]

[Porcy Mane]

On 22/04/2020 at 18:22, Oldddudders said:

I must be missing something here. What about Hermitage itself?

 

How right you are.

 

Only a few hundred yards from where I used to live and only a couple of miles from No Place. You had to drive over the ECML to get to it. Used to be an NCB rehabilitation centre and then became a fantastic NHS residential physio centre until cuts caused it's closure and selling in the comparative recent past.

 

 

The entrance as viewed from the old Great  North Road.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/C8tUD25ME8CPw5as6

 

Could be run in the same way as Conishead Priory with it's dedicated rail service for injured coal miners.

 

P

[GDR]

On 08/04/2020 at 18:09, Alex TM said:

Hi folks,

 

Are the any place-names in the North-East of England that are derived form a word meaning 'hermitage'?

 

I am currently doodling a couple of ideas for a layout; the design takes a plan from one part of the UK and transposes it to another.  I would like to try and keep something of the original place-name in the new location, as well as using a real place.  As the original has a name derived, I'm told, from a word 'hermitage', I wondered if there were any place-names out there in the north-east of England?  I am particularly thinking somewhere such as County Durham.  I've tried a few random online searches but to no avail.

 

Thanks for any pointers.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

Bible's full of hermits to flick through. Is there a handy St.Simons? Think he was the one who lived on top of a pillar.

[Alex TM]

Hi GDR,

 

Ah yes, Simeon the Stylite.  A man who took separation from the world to new heights.  Not a Biblical character, though I imagine that even some of the more eccentric of them would have thought him to be odd.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.