Build your own points

[34006]

Hi.I've been reading various track related   topics but I'd like to know the right order to build points from Peco Induvidulay  or C & L componants.Neither site has any basic instructions,BTF Phil gave me a quick rundown,and also said he would update the site to suit later.

Any thoughts please?

 

TIA Phil.

 

[brossard]

I built most of mine myself from Peco chairs and rail.  I used Intentio ( http://intentio.co.uk/7mm-track-parts/ ) wooden timbers because I found the Peco plastic ones tended to warp.

 

There seems to be some good info here:

 

 I have mostly used Peco templates for my turnouts:

 

https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans/o-32mm

 

You can buy ready made blades and crossings but it is a lot cheaper to make your own.

 

You'll need MEK/Butanone as a solvent to fix chairs to timbers.

 

Get a generous number of roller gauges.  I got mine in a C&L kit that I bought about 4 years ago.  I did that just to see what's what.  I found that I needed to grind off the inner and outer flanges on some to fit over the crossing.

 

These are very good books:

 

 

Trax 2 comes with a CD with a sort of poor mans Templot.  I have used it to make templates.

 

John

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by brossard

[MarcD]

There is. New kid on the block Greenwood model products. I haven't built any of their points but they are getting good reviews. 

I've used Waverly point kits which occasionally come up on a well known second hand junk disposal site. They are designed to solder to copper clad but they can be built with C&L chairs.

Marc

[Simond]

Before you commit to anything, I’d recommend considering 0MF - it’s 31.5mm gauge, with 1.5mm flangeways, which will give much smoother running through crossings, and, despite being further from scale gauge, the reduced flangeway gaps give an improved appearance.

 

if you have a look at my Porth Dinllaen thread, there are a few pages of posts on point manufacture, I’ve used C&L chairs along with their laser cut timbers & sleepers.  I have made some crossing jigs, but it’s perfectly possible to do without.  Starts here, I think. 

 

 

Do also look at Templot, one of the biggest advantages of home built pointwork is that you can build flowing track that pre-printed templates simply can’t achieve.

 

I find track making rather satisfying.  And it’s cheaper than buying ready-made too!

 

hth

keep well!

Simon

Edited April 8, 2020 by Simond

[martin_wynne]

12 hours ago, brossard said:

Trax 2 comes with a CD with a sort of poor mans Templot.  I have used it to make templates.

 

 

A man can be very poor and use Templot -- it's free.

 

Trax isn't.

 

Martin.

[Simond]

Given the current lockdown situation, it's an ideal time to take the time to learn to use Templot!!!!

 

Keep Well!

Simon

[Stephen Freeman]

Waverley Point kits! not been around for a long time, the owner died sadly from a heart attack much before his time. I believe he had other projects which have not progressed as a result, though there was some indication that the point kits might re-appear but not to be unfortunately.

 

Whatever the template source or scale it is always best to start with the common crossing and work outwards.,

[34006]

Thanks for all of your input.What I really needed to know was where to start(at the common crossing).I have had a go at Templot and produced a template (wonders will never cease!)for a L>H> curved B5,now all I have to do is build the thing.Just need a few crossing chairs from C & L and away we go.

 

Phil

Edited April 9, 2020 by 34006
Missed capitol!

[daifly]

22 minutes ago, 34006 said:

I have had a go at Templot and produced a template (wonders will never cease!)for a L>H> curved B5,now all I have to do is build the thing.

Can I suggest that you go back to Templot and produce an A5 rather than B5 (which is not a typical combination).

If you can, I strongly recommend that you also learn the build techniques on a straight L or R-hand turnout rather than being too ambitious on a curved turnout to start with.

Dave

[roythebus]

There's a special group on here called Hand Built Track and Templot if you scroll down the page a bit. There' some very helpful people on there.

 

I can recommend Templot, I've been using it on and off for about 0 years, still haven't got he hang of it, but have built 2 layouts work of point from it!

 

Hayfield has published a "how to make points" series on that group.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by roythebus

[3 link]

And if you want to keep the prices down, make your own frogs and switch blades. Not to hard to do mainly a couple of good files and some elbow grease. C&L point kits work out very expensive, so make your own but use their parts.

 

Martyn.

[Joseph_Pestell]

20 hours ago, Simond said:

Given the current lockdown situation, it's an ideal time to take the time to learn to use Templot!!!!

 

Keep Well!

Simon

 

In theory, a good idea. In practice, I am struggling enough already.

 

I have got far enough into Templot to recognise it as being way more complete in its functionality than Trax2 which is now very old. I particularly like the feature which allows one to overlay the track diagram from a OS map and then, if necessary, warp it to fit the space available for the layout.

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, 34006 said:

Thanks for all of your input.What I really needed to know was where to start(at the common crossing).I have had a go at Templot and produced a template (wonders will never cease!)for a L>H> curved B5,now all I have to do is build the thing.Just need a few crossing chairs from C & L and away we go.

 

Phil

 

Depending on which way you curve a turnout the radii will alter, if you curve it away from the turnout road (making it more of a Y shape) you will increase the radii. However if you curve it into the turnout road you will decrease the exit. Depending which locos you use/plan to use the radii might bee too tight, usually you would use a larger turnout (A6 or A7)  to maintain the radii

 

Templot is easy to use and the dialog box will inform you of the radii

Example

A5   Main road straight          Turnout road 96.8"

A5   Main road 10' radius      Turnout road  53"

A6  Main Road  10' radius     Turnout road  62"

B7  Main road   10' radius    Turnout road 72"

 

 

[34006]

HI.I've had a busy few days.

 

Built the frog,only 3 attempt to get it right,seem to have more thumbs than fingers..

 

All rails cut to size,and then threading chairs onto rail.

Am I glad I'm not working in 4mm..........

 

Now to glue everything down.

Workbench is kitchen table - again..

 

I did promise SWMBO a new one after assembling a Winson 1400 on it,."I'll get one when I've finished"

quoth I,however said 1400 is lurking under the table awaiting remedial work on the exhaust manifold.....

Assembled same to words and music,b**$$y  fouls the main steam pipe...

Time for a rethink on that.So,no new kitchen table.

 

Phil.

 

p.s. Oops photos slightly out of order.

Edited April 29, 2020 by 34006

[brossard]

IMO, the most important aspect of a turnout is the crossing.  This is also tricky.  I learned from someone in an MRJ article about using an off turnout sub assembly jig:

 

 

A piece of offcut ply with crossing area taped to it.  The vee angle made from some copper clad.  Vee rails have been filed.

 

 

Vee soldered up.

 

 

I glue copper clad strip at strategic places on the crossing.  Solder the vee on and then use a gauge to line everything up and solder.  The knees in the wing rail must be at the same place.  The tail of the wing rail must be in line with the vee.  It all takes some practice to get it right.

 

 

Trim off the excess copper clad and then place on the turnout.

 

HTH

 

John

[34006]

Hi John,point is partially built,managed to get a wagon to run down the main road without it coming to grief,without checkrails,and no bumps over the crossing,so must have got something right.

Just need a switch to alter the frog polarity and all should be don.I'm a little reluctant to go too far in case it all needs to come to pieces to install the switch (and the tie bars).I'll see what tomorrows post brings.

 

Phil

[brossard]

Glad things seem to be going OK.  I use these tiebars:

 

https://mm1models.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=108_116&product_id=536

 

They are a fiddle but look slightly better than the ubiquitous copper clad strip.

 

 

I used them to improve the appearance of a Peco point, on the right.

 

John

Edited April 30, 2020 by brossard

[GWR57xx]

Hi John, may I ask how you attach the MM1 tiebar to the switch rails?

I have some, but haven't used them yet because the instructions say to solder them, which would seem to be a recipe for failure since every time the point is changed the joint flexes which will eventually cause fatigue and break the joint?

They do look good though!

[martin_wynne]

27 minutes ago, 34006 said:

Hi John,point is partially built,managed to get a wagon to run down the main road without it coming to grief, without checkrails ,and no bumps over the crossing,so must have got something right.

 

Hi Phil,

 

Testing pointwork without check rails is utterly pointless and proves nothing.

 

Just because a single wagon makes it through without derailment doesn't mean an entire train will do so. Especially when being propelled (pushed).

 

Check rails perform a vital function, and pointwork won't work without them.

 

I keep seeing this suggestion that pointwork can be tested before fitting the check rails, and I'm mystified where it comes from. It serves no purpose at all.

 

Many experienced track builders fit the check rails before fitting the adjacent stock rails. The position of the check rail is far more critical, and doing it this way makes it easier to gauge them correctly without the stock rails in the way.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[brossard]

Martin, I would add that the check rail should be fitted to the check gauge and not to a flangeway gauge.  This puts the check rail at the correct distance from the crossing.

 

GWR, you are correct, they need to be insulated.  I use some thin copper clad strip (about 0.5mm thick) that is plated both sides.  Soldering each side of the tie bar to the strip gives a strong insulated joint. (I really don't like using glues for this kind of thing)  IIRC I set blade distance to 28mm but do check.  You can use a rough jig to get a consistent distance, or wing it.

 

It's a good idea to use a multimeter to check the tiebar after assembly.  It's usually fine but occasionally some solder creeps over the edges.  A bit of filing fixes it.

 

I haven't used my turnouts yet as the layout is awaiting wiring.  We'll see.  Copper clad strip tie bars also fatigue.  Adding a brass pin hinge is better.

 

John

[Happy Hippo]

12 hours ago, GWR57xx said:

Hi John, may I ask how you attach the MM1 tiebar to the switch rails?

I have some, but haven't used them yet because the instructions say to solder them, which would seem to be a recipe for failure since every time the point is changed the joint flexes which will eventually cause fatigue and break the joint?

They do look good though!

I soldered mine in place as instructed and have had no failures so far.

 

I think the failure of copper clad tie bars in the past is probably best attributed to the use of solenoids as point motors, where the violent movement back and fore coupled to the impact of the switch rails against the stock rails causes the eventual failure.

 

Perhaps it is worth pointing out (tongue in cheek) that a turnout on the big railway is being inspected on a regular basis and repaired as necessary.

 

Should we be surprised if we do not  get the occasional track failure on a model where, once the track is down, the only attention it gets is to be cleaned once every so often?

 

 

[brossard]

A good point about solenoid motors contributing to tiebar failure.  Our club layout has a lot of handbuilt copper clad turnouts (I made most of them) with CC tiebars.  It is not uncommon for the tiebar to come adrift but a relatively easy thing to fix...until next time.

 

My preference is for slow motion motors.

 

John

 

[34006]

I'm using parts supplied by C & L, manufactured by Ambis.They look a bit fiddly... However tomorrow is another day.

 

No post either,it's a bit anyhow at the moment.Things arrive at different times.All Hail to Royal Mail though,in these difficult times.

 

Phil.

[brossard]

I have a set of those from when I bought a point kit from C&L (I wanted to see what's what).  I opened the packet, took a look and put them away again.  MM1 tiebars are still fiddly but simpler I think.

 

John

[34006]

Hi John.

Yes I see what you mean.However,nothing ventured,nothing gained.Guess I'll have to dig out the old fiendish resistance soldering machine from where ever its hibernating.

Still pressing on glueing chairs to sleepers.and filing bits of plastic sprue to represent the spacer blocks for checkrails etc,.

 

Bws

 

Phil