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Hornby 2020 range mk1 RB


davidw
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No thread exist for the Mk1 RB.  

 

Prior to Hornby's announcement the earlier Mainline/palitoy mk1 RB was available which though acceptable on release has been left behind by the Bachmann and retooled Hornby  mk1s.

 

Very welcome

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1 hour ago, davidw said:

No thread exist for the Mk1 RB.  

 

Prior to Hornby's announcement the earlier Mainline/palitoy mk1 RB was available which though acceptable on release has been left behind by the Bachmann and retooled Hornby  mk1s.

 

Very welcome

 

However I believe that Hornby's new RB will be done to the Railroad standard - moulded on tank fillers and no close coupling mechanism being two significant issues.

 

If gigantic gaps between coaches and a lack of detail aren't important then fair enough, but mixing it with Bachmann's superior product will not be possible without significant alteration to correct the physical shortcuts however excellent the paint finish.

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6 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

However I believe that Hornby's new RB will be done to the Railroad standard - moulded on tank fillers and no close coupling mechanism being two significant issues.

 

If gigantic gaps between coaches and a lack of detail aren't important then fair enough, but mixing it with Bachmann's superior product will not be possible without significant alteration to correct the physical shortcuts however excellent the paint finish.

 

Personally I think the general shape of the Hornby model has the edge on the Bachmann but only by a whisker. I don't think it's classed as railroad standard, but I know what you mean when you refer to  moulded  items and close coupling being on the downside - in fairness cheaper than the Bachmann version and not unfixable .

The RB will be a model of a much requested mk1 coach.

Edited by davidw
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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

However I believe that Hornby's new RB will be done to the Railroad standard - moulded on tank fillers and no close coupling mechanism being two significant issues.

 

If gigantic gaps between coaches and a lack of detail aren't important then fair enough, but mixing it with Bachmann's superior product will not be possible without significant alteration to correct the physical shortcuts however excellent the paint finish.

I use the Hornby RoCo type coupler which closes the gap. Agree about fine detail, but I find the running much better without derailments and coaches separating, as my Bachmann Mk1 sometimes do. The incorrect height of the NEM box on the Bachmann is an issue when mixing. 

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Just now, miles73128 said:

I use the Hornby RoCo type coupler which closes the gap. Agree about fine detail, but I find the running much better without derailments and coaches separating, as my Bachmann Mk1 sometimes do. The incorrect height of the NEM box on the Bachmann is an issue when mixing. 

 

But without a CCM mechanism you need to keep a big gap between vehicles to provide space for them to get closer when the train enters curves. Granted if you are lucky enough to have the space to make said curves very slight - or avoid them entirely) then the bogie mounted NEM coupler on Hornby's Mk1s is less likely to be an issue.

 

Unfortunately am forced to make use of 2nd radius setrack in certain places - and that means big gaps must be maintained (even on the scenic section) unless the vehicles come with a CCM.

 

Yes I know its possible to retrofit a CCM - but as the therm RTR stands for 'Ready To Run' its entirely reasonable for them to be fitted by manufacturer if the product is to be considered mainstream (i.e. not Railroad standard)

 

 

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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

But without a CCM mechanism you need to keep a big gap between vehicles to provide space for them to get closer when the train enters curves. Granted if you are lucky enough to have the space to make said curves very slight - or avoid them entirely) then the bogie mounted NEM coupler on Hornby's Mk1s is less likely to be an issue.

 

Unfortunately am forced to make use of 2nd radius setrack in certain places - and that means big gaps must be maintained (even on the scenic section) unless the vehicles come with a CCM.

 

Yes I know its possible to retrofit a CCM - but as the therm RTR stands for 'Ready To Run' its entirely reasonable for them to be fitted by manufacturer if the product is to be considered mainstream (i.e. not Railroad standard)

 

 

Yep, I’ve big radius curves. Still find the Hornby more stable. (Bach and H with the close couplers). 

3B6C3587-91B1-42F6-BBF6-FF9E90A087D0.jpeg

678A17FC-7DFA-44D4-9D7E-0ED247A06046.jpeg

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Hornby and Bachmann pretty much of a muchness once on the layout in my opinion and I have examples of both in mixed rakes. I agree the Hornby ones are very reliable runners. They also dont develop the dreaded Bachmann squeal  - anyone know what causes it? :crazy_mini:

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Just now, MikeParkin65 said:

Hornby and Bachmann pretty much of a muchness once on the layout in my opinion and I have examples of both in mixed rakes. I agree the Hornby ones are very reliable runners. They also dont develop the dreaded Bachmann squeal  - anyone know what causes it? :crazy_mini:

Very true! I’ve just had to, carefully, oil all the axel pin points. 

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58 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

Yep, I’ve big radius curves. Still find the Hornby more stable. (Bach and H with the close couplers). 

3B6C3587-91B1-42F6-BBF6-FF9E90A087D0.jpeg

678A17FC-7DFA-44D4-9D7E-0ED247A06046.jpeg


If you use the actual Roco couplers - shorter than the Hornby ones then they close that gap completely on the Hornby coaches. Just slightly rounded off the edges of the corridors and no derailments on 30” curves. 
 

Bachmann Sleepers and TPOs are different from their other Mk1 stock and also benefit from the Roco couplings

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Thank you for the information about couplings. While we are waiting for the Hornby model to appear you may be interested to see a picture of the previous Buffet Restaurant cars produced by Lima and Replica. Lima first produced the RB in fictitious LMS and GWR liveries in 1977 but the BR versions Lima made in 1979 were reasonable models of the prototype.

 

Between 1986 and 1989 Replica produced their version which had Bachmann stamped on the chassis.  At the time I thought that the Southern Region version was as close to perfection as you could get and was excellent value for money at £6.95. 

 

I expect that the Hornby model will be even better and at £31.50 will be reasonable value for money.

P1090996.JPG

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On 09/04/2020 at 11:37, phil-b259 said:

 

However I believe that Hornby's new RB will be done to the Railroad standard - moulded on tank fillers and no close coupling mechanism being two significant issues.

 

If gigantic gaps between coaches and a lack of detail aren't important then fair enough, but mixing it with Bachmann's superior product will not be possible without significant alteration to correct the physical shortcuts however excellent the paint finish.

What tank fillers? There were none on the production RB as they had underfloor tanks.

 

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On 10/04/2020 at 09:57, Robin Brasher said:

Thank you for the information about couplings. While we are waiting for the Hornby model to appear you may be interested to see a picture of the previous Buffet Restaurant cars produced by Lima and Replica. Lima first produced the RB in fictitious LMS and GWR liveries in 1977 but the BR versions Lima made in 1979 were reasonable models of the prototype.

 

Between 1986 and 1989 Replica produced their version which had Bachmann stamped on the chassis.  At the time I thought that the Southern Region version was as close to perfection as you could get and was excellent value for money at £6.95. 

 

I expect that the Hornby model will be even better and at £31.50 will be reasonable value for money.

P1090996.JPG

The Lima mk1s were not half bad for their day and one of the best things that company produced, much better finished than the previous Triang derived and a better 'look' than the Mainline mk1s which seemed to have undersized windows to my view.  The Trix/Liliput were good but to their compromise 3.8mm scale, but at least had Commonwealth bogies.  The big drawbacks with both the Triang (Triang Hornby/Hornby by 1979) and the Lima mk1s were the B1 bogies, not suitable for RBs and some other mk1s, the generic underframes, not suitable for BGs, and the thick body sides.  IIRC both had the end steps moulded into the tooling which was incorrect for blue/grey liveried stock.

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Although the Mainline SK and BSK had undersized windows I think that the 37-114 BR M1713 maroon lined Buffet Restaurant Car (RB) was just right.  The colour was perfect and when I bought it from Hobbyhorse of Worthing for £6.24 in 1981 it seemed like the last word. It was a huge improvement on what Hornby and Lima had to offer at the time. 

 

Doubtless the Hornby model will be better but it will cost over twice as much as a second hand Mainline model.

P1100011.JPG

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An update on this model is in today’s Engine Shed. Some coach numbers have been changed to match the prototype being modelled. It’s looking quite good although I’m no expert. The article includes colour charts. It seems the BR Green is to match R3162 - the first 2-BIL - and the BR Blue will match R4610, which was a Mk2e TSO. Does anyone know how that blue compares with Bachmann’s BR Blue on its Mk2fs?

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5 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

An update on this model is in today’s Engine Shed. Some coach numbers have been changed to match the prototype being modelled. It’s looking quite good although I’m no expert. The article includes colour charts. It seems the BR Green is to match R3162 - the first 2-BIL - and the BR Blue will match R4610, which was a Mk2e TSO. Does anyone know how that blue compares with Bachmann’s BR Blue on its Mk2fs?

Hornby blue & Bachmann blue (and for that matter the grey) are different. The blue on Hornby is much darker. I don't know what they look like together in the same rake, I have never done it. My OCD won't allow it. 

 

Assuming I have got my facts correct here, but a slight irony given that for many years Bachmann were the go to company for Mk1s (I always assumed if an RB was coming it would be done by Bachmann) is that the Engine shed article contains a shot of M1712 by Dennis Taylor - wasn't there somebody by that name who worked for Bachmann. 

 

Steve

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11 hours ago, mow said:

 

if I have this correct then Hornby are giving us an RB - maroon and green models - and an RBR - Blue/Grey and Exec models. Would I be correct in thinking that the only external difference would be the RBR - for those transformed from RBs - only has one footstep on the end - and internally the RB has loose and the RBR fixed seats?

 

The Blue/Grey RBR is dual braked era 7 but if the livery illustration is correct it lacks a data panel - that  suits me for 1971! 

 

Where is @Flood when we need him???? ;)

 

Cheers

 

 

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18 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

An update on this model is in today’s Engine Shed. Some coach numbers have been changed to match the prototype being modelled. It’s looking quite good although I’m no expert. The article includes colour charts. It seems the BR Green is to match R3162 - the first 2-BIL - and the BR Blue will match R4610, which was a Mk2e TSO. Does anyone know how that blue compares with Bachmann’s BR Blue on its Mk2fs?

 

12 hours ago, steve1023 said:

Hornby blue & Bachmann blue (and for that matter the grey) are different. The blue on Hornby is much darker. I don't know what they look like together in the same rake, I have never done it. My OCD won't allow it. 

 

Assuming I have got my facts correct here, but a slight irony given that for many years Bachmann were the go to company for Mk1s (I always assumed if an RB was coming it would be done by Bachmann) is that the Engine shed article contains a shot of M1712 by Dennis Taylor - wasn't there somebody by that name who worked for Bachmann. 

 

Steve

I am a bit like you Steve and I do wonder as to Hornby matching the colour of the BR Blue against a Mk2E as opposed to their existing Mk1 range BR Blue (assuming they are not identical).

Was Planning on running mine with my Mk1's - if it arrives and does not match the other Hornby BR Blue (&grey) Mk1's I already have, it could be going back whence it came!

Likewise the green one I also have on order (matching an EMU and not the existing Green Mk1 range).

Why expand an existing range of coaches [Mk1's] with a catering vehicle but match up the colour schemes of the additional vehicle with colours of other vehicles and not the existing Mk1's?

I do accept most folks won't be as OCD but it still does not make much sense to me. Maybe someone can comment as to the differences if any between the existing MK1 ranges and the shades on the MK2E + 2BIL etc.

 

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The only other thing I can think of is that an RBR would have had the bright orange plastic moulded seats, remember them? Obviously they would have had false ceilings with fluorescent lights but on a model you won't see them.

Modellers should put the orange curtains in as well, they really make a difference:

Mk1 Restaurant/Buffet at Euston HR scan

From Flickr (Ian Docwra).

Edited by Flood
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On the RBR, the droplight on the staff door to the buffet area was painted body colour. Other than that, there was little, if any difference. End steps other than the bottom one were not present on them prior to refurbishment. I'm not sure without digging through photos whether any of them had a complete set of end steps even from new. Must have a look. 

 

See buffet door:

27625665120_515d89cf76_c.jpgM1657 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

No end steps on this green one on the left, which has also gained green ends:

8684604146_ca378fcf29_c.jpg34021_Claphan-Yard_15-5-66 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

The photos on Hornby's website of the real things in maroon show only the bottom steps present, not all the way up the end.

 

 

Edited by robertcwp
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The blue Hornby use on their Mark 1 and Mark 2 stock is too dark in my view and a poor match for Bachmann, who made theirs lighter some years back. However, the colour on the real things varied, especially as I understand that some works mixed black paint in with the official Rail Blue to make the paint last longer and make the colour more durable.

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5 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

 

The photos on Hornby's website of the real things in maroon show only the bottom steps present, not all the way up the end.

 

Let's hope they look at theiir own pictures, although I reckon there's a possibility they might use the already available generic end if it's going to be in the Railroad range only?

 

Mike.

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6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Let's hope they look at theiir own pictures, although I reckon there's a possibility they might use the already available generic end if it's going to be in the Railroad range only?

 

Mike.

 

This is not going to be a Railroad model. It will be released as part of the standard Hornby range.

 

However as I pointed out up thread the lack of certain things which we have come to expect as standard from a main range item like a close coupling mechanism is absent.

 

Thus this RB (and the previously released BSO, etc) are a bit like the Tornado model. Moulding / construction wise its done to a Railroad spec to keep costs down but is given a premium decoration finish like the rest of the main range items. This is a rather disappointing strategy - the days of producing such 'half & half' models - particularly of things that were built in large numbers (as opposed to one off prototypes) should be over.

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