Hornby 2020 range mk1 RB

[davidw]

31 minutes ago, Fredo said:

Hi, can anyone help me establish which year W1743 and W1739 were built. Thanks Fred

1961 if someone can confirm

[russ p]

On 18/12/2020 at 18:32, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Here are a few quick snaps of the new RBs (Mk1 Restaurant Buffet), taken with a phone camera in poor light. Thank you Mr.Kohler for these lovely and very useful catering cars, along with others, I badgered him to make these at the last Ally Pally show, pointing out how you can use an RB with so many different ranges of coaches, from pre-nat to sometimes even Mk3. He replied "I get the message!", although of course he may have already had this one planned, and up his sleeve?

 

 

The maroon is a good match for Bachmann's shade either side.

 

 

The usual shade of 21st century Hornby Rail Blue is just too dark and rather oppressive, I realize Hornby are obliged to match their 

other coach types, but I think in the near future they will have to be very brave, and substitute a brighter shade of blue, as Bachmann 

did. We know there is a suggestion that the real Rail Blue was darkened over the years, but it never got this dark.

Here's the Hornby blue-grey RB next a Bachmann Mk1 and Mk2F.

 

 

Finally the SR Green option, with the body off to show the interior.

 

 

In conclusion, lovely models, should sell very well, the only real negative is that dark Rail Blue shade.

                                                                                                        Cheers,   Brian Kirby

 

 

Is there any logical reason why they persist in using this colour of blue? The blue on my blue and grey gresley buffet seems to match the Bachmann blue 

A shame as there are a few blue and grey Hornby mk1s id like 

[Markn]

I picked up an intercity RBR whilst holidaying in Cornwall today. Not at home to check livery against other coaches, but here's some pics for reference. Great looking coach with a well applied finish.

['CHARD]

6 minutes ago, Markn said:

I picked up an intercity RBR whilst holidaying in Cornwall today. Not at home to check livery against other coaches, but here's some pics for reference. Great looking coach with a well applied finish.

 

Are those the roof ribs on the newly released coaches?

 

[Kirby Uncoupler]

Attention Fred: 1739 and 1743 were completed by BRCW in July 1961. (Parkin)   BK

[brushman47544]

The red band at cantrail height to indicate a catering vehicle looks to have been printed twice, one line above the other, on the IC version. It’s way too deep.

[Kirby Uncoupler]

I've been discussing the RB interior with Mark54 and Robertcwp off-forum, the bar counter is too long for all periods, towards the saloon should either be the inner "lobby" door (as built), or a raised solid bulkhead with cupboard within (1970s refurb), as explained by Mark. It must have been odd for the public passing through two doors of the originals, rather like an airlock, with the open end of the bar one side? Hornby have modelled the bar counter as a plain extended worktop, perhaps they saw one like this in preservation? It's no big deal, and can be easily added with plasticard, and a splash of paint, this area can be seen from the corridor side. The saloon seating is the original style for RB, for the refurbished RBR you could substitute the infamous orange or white plastic bucket seats, in the same positions, bit like sitting in an eggcup? Perhaps the seats can be carved into the round bucket shape?    BK

[Fredo]

Thanks Kirby uncoupler. Waiting for Hornby to do a non commonwealth bogie version next. Fred

[miles73128]

5 hours ago, Fredo said:

Thanks Kirby uncoupler. Waiting for Hornby to do a non commonwealth bogie version next. Fred

I have spare BR1 Hornby bogies (the new type) if you wanna swap for your commonwealths 

 

[Fredo]

Thanks for the offer but not at the moment.

[kintbury jon]

I have bought one of the Intercity liveried RBR's and I am happy with it.  My Cross Country rake has been made up of a rake of Hornby Mk 2e's plus a Bachmann Mk1 buffet.  Not surprisingly the Bachmann coach has stood out from the rake (not just due to the fact it isn't a Mk 2!) having a different shade of colour to the Hornby coaches.  At just over £30, it represents a good price and will replace the Bachmann buffet coach.

[miles73128]

On 19/12/2020 at 20:50, Markn said:

I picked up an intercity RBR whilst holidaying in Cornwall today. Not at home to check livery against other coaches, but here's some pics for reference. Great looking coach with a well applied finish.

Fitted mine with lights! A bit of a fiddle as there was lots of light bleed. Now corrected 

[ThaneofFife]

i had this trouble with Bachmann Mk1s especially on that lower light grey section you find on the executive ones.  the sides almost glow. Yours might be improved if you can dim the lights a bit more.

[ThaneofFife]

does anybody know the correct number of IC executive liveried coach out of the two available versions IC1667 and IC 1653 that would have been run on the WCML or were both coaches found only on that route  ?    I see one version has R4974A has sold out on pre order fast at one particular retailer so wondering why the popularity of one and not tuther?    

[kintbury jon]

When choosing which one to go for I looked up the allocations from my 1990 book. 1653 was allocated to ICCX (Cross Country) based at Craigentinny. 1667 was allocated to ICHV (VIP Charter) at Bounds Green. 

 

1653 seemed more useful to me in that sense though I don't really care in the end.  But when there is a choice you look for a reason to pick one!

Edited December 21, 2020 by kintbury jon

[brushman47544]

15 hours ago, kintbury jon said:

1667 was allocated to ICHV (VIP Charter) at Bounds Green. 

So a logical next step would be IC charter liveried Mk1FOs to go with it... Well Hornby?

[kintbury jon]

Certainly I could see a rake of white rooved FO's with a similarly treated RBR would be popular.   What would be lacking is the BCK or BFK that would need to finish the rake.  A Bachmann BCK would do the trick.

[robertcwp]

As noted earlier in the thread, all of the production batches had Commonwealth bogies from new except the first BRCW batch 1701-38, which had BR bogies. The first edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by Bowles/Mallaband lists the following, excluding the prototype, as having B5 bogies at the end of 1971: 

 

M1701-4, M1730/1

W1732, W1734-8

 

I'm not sure whether they did in fact have B5 bogies at both ends or whether the saloon end was in fact a B4.

 

SC1733 is the only one listed as retaining its original BR bogies.

 

1714-24 had by that time been converted to 4 REP EMU vehicles, as had 1759, which was in the 8 VAB unit.

 

M1705-13 and M1725-29 had been fitted with Commonwealth bogies, at least some whilst they were still in maroon livery.

[robertcwp]

Having finally received my order for five RBs, I agree that the blue/grey livery is poor, with the blue looking much too dark. Otherwise, for the price, these are excellent models. The roof ribs are nowhere near as prominent as on the older Bachmann Mark 1s but it would have been better if they had not been there at all. If there is an error with the interior, it's not really noticeable. Similarly, the sliding vents on the narrow windows are not quite right but this is very minor.

[robertcwp]

Here is 1698 in the VIP charter livery (note no red band): 

 

1698_RB_CJ by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Tiddles47]

Please forgive me if this has been talked about before, but I'm a little confused over rebuilds etc.  I had every intention (indeed have 1 on order) of getting a blue & grey RBR, however  I have a ( after looking on ebay) B'mann RU but the real thing is down in the 1981 pocket coaching book as an RBR.They look the same , so do I still need an RBR and an additional RK or will an RBR  suffice?  I also have an RFO ( thinking that the RU was a kitchen and go as a pair) I don't want to end up with an abundance of catering vehicles. Any advice gratefully received. Thanks. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Tiddles47

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

As noted earlier in the thread, all of the production batches had Commonwealth bogies from new except the first BRCW batch 1701-38, which had BR bogies. The first edition of 'The Coaching Stock of British Railways' by Bowles/Mallaband lists the following, excluding the prototype, as having B5 bogies at the end of 1971: 

 

M1701-4, M1730/1

W1732, W1734-8

 

I'm not sure whether they did in fact have B5 bogies at both ends or whether the saloon end was in fact a B4.

 

SC1733 is the only one listed as retaining its original BR bogies.

 

1714-24 had by that time been converted to 4 REP EMU vehicles, as had 1759, which was in the 8 VAB unit.

 

M1705-13 and M1725-29 had been fitted with Commonwealth bogies, at least some whilst they were still in maroon livery.

 

In the RO's of the day, conversions were noted as they went through works, I think I've posted details somewhere hereabouts.

They were B4's at the lightweight end.

 

Mike.

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Tiddles47 said:

Please forgive me if this has been talked about before, but I'm a little confused over rebuilds etc.  I had every intention (indeed have 1 on order) of getting a blue & grey RBR, however  I have a ( after looking on ebay) B'mann RU but the real thing is down in the 1981 pocket coaching book as an RBR.They look the same , so do I still need an RBR and an additional RK or will an RBR  suffice?  I also have an RFO ( thinking that the RU was a kitchen and go as a pair) I don't want to end up with an abundance of catering vehicles. Any advice gratefully received. Thanks. 

There were several varieties of RBR. Some were refurbished RBs, which is what the Hornby model represents. External differences compared to the unrefurbished RB were almost nil, as discussed above.

 

There were also RBRs which had begun life as unclassed restaurants (RU). These did not have a buffet counter when built. Some were rebuilt to include one and became similar to those that had begun life as RB. The RU rebuilds were originally RB(S), then RBR following refurbishment. The non-kitchen side remained externally unchanged but a door and two windows disappeared on the kitchen side. The Bachmann 'RBR' is simply their RU tooling and does not reflect these changes.

 

This is the kitchen side of one that was rebuilt from an RU:

W1923_m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Note the door between the two kitchen windows, which is not present on the RB type and the compensating lack of door further along.

 

There was a third type of RBR which started life as a restaurant first (RF). These were rebuilt to include a buffet counter, becoming RB(K) then later some were refurbished to become RBR. These can be distinguished as they had a passenger door at the seated end. Note the end door and three large windows on this one:

M1623_Reading_1979 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

To further confuse matters, the RF rebuilds were renumbered into a sequence at each end of the RB series.

 

The RFO type had disappeared by 1980. Only 11 were built (all in 1951). Most were withdrawn by the late 1960s but a few survived much longer, having acquired B4 bogies.

 

A good companion for an RB is Mark 1 FO, a type made by Hornby. Some of these were reclassified as restaurant cars, becoming RSO. By the late 1970s, many RBRs were dual heated and air braked and were often found coupled to a Mark 2d/e/f or Mark 3a open first, used partly or fully for dining.

 

From the late 1960s until the introduction of HSTs, the Eastern had some sets used on 'Executive' trains that included an RB and an RU as well as two open firsts.

 

[Tiddles47]

Ok thanks, i'll get my order of the RBR then and keep the RFO and RU stored. 

[spamcan61]

6 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Here is 1698 in the VIP charter livery (note no red band): 

 

1698_RB_CJ by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Interestingly (?) this shows a disparity in the height of the top band (OK it's yellow in this case not red) where the furthest vehicle has a narrower band, limited to the coach side, whereas the nearest coach has the band covering the gutter as well, as per the Hornby model.  Presumably not just a Mk2 versus Mk1 coach thing as the subsequent photo at Reading shows a Mk1 coach with the narrower band.