Hornby 2020 range mk1 RB

[robertcwp]

This is an RMB rather than an RB but it has the red band covering the gutter as on the Hornby model:

 

1860_6-87 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Pete the Elaner]

I was looking forward to adding an IC one to my stock, but after seeing where the white band is, I'll add one of my old ones to the queue for the spray booth instead.

[robertcwp]

I found a photo of RBR 1653 in Inter-City stripe livery in the 1990 Platform 5 coaching stock book which shows it with the red band covering the gutter, as on the Hornby model. However, 1653 has no 'Restaurant Buffet' lettering on the side and the left-hand window on the kitchen side (staff compartment?) is painted over in body colour except the top bit. The photo is dated 1989.

 

It is coupled to Mark 2d FK 13601 which has the yellow band extending over the gutter and a white '1' on the door, rather than the more normal black figure.

[brushman47544]

On 22/12/2020 at 20:42, robertcwp said:

This is an RMB rather than an RB but it has the red band covering the gutter as on the Hornby model:

 

1860_6-87 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Interesting as of course on the prototype the red painted gutter is much narrower and stands out from the red band below it, whereas on the model the red looks much deeper overall.

[andyman7]

Having picked up a blue/grey example I have been comparing it to the Mainline RB, released in 1981. The latter stands up remarkably well for a near 40-year old model. The glazing isn't flush although the coach sides are thin, but the roof treatment omits the ribs entirely which I prefer as in real life these are butt-welded and not very visible. The frosting on the toilet window of the Mainline version is superb. The Mainline blue is better, the red line is a bit too thin on the Mainline one and a bit too prominent on the Hornby one. Printing on both is excellent, you'd expect that in 2020 but it was a revelation in 1981.

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by andyman7
Spelling

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

Having picked up a blue/grey example I have been comparing it to the Mainline RB, released in 1981. The latter stands up remarkably well for a near 40-year old model. The glazing isn't flush although the coach sides are thin, but the roof treatment omits the ribs entirely which I prefer as in real life these are butt-welded and not very visible. The frosting on the toilet window of the Mainline version is superb. The Mainline blue is better, the red line is a bit too thin on the Mainline one and a bit too prominent on the Hornby one. Printing on both is excellent, you'd expect that in 2020 but it was a revelation in 1981.

 

The Mainline RB was a superb model for its time and I agree it stands up well even today, especially the shade of blue!

[Halvarras]

A good job Hornby didn't use this shade of BR blue on their 08s, 31s & 50s, which only makes this all the more inexplicable.

It took Bachmann a while to nail it - when I picked up Kernow's twin pack of blue/grey Mark 2 SOs with NSE logos and wanted a BFK to go with them my local shop was only too pleased to shift a 39-410 gathering dust on the shelf for £16.50. I felt very pleased with myself.......until I put the three together. Oh dear. The blue was so unacceptably different I ended up buying a newer 39-410A for over twice the price. The older BFK didn't go to waste though, it proved to be a reasonable match to a pair of Hornby WR Mark 2E SOs I couldn't resist at £15 each. Cheap rake of three that (my small layout won't take four anyway). Bit of a game, isn't it?

 

Bachmann's roof rib deletion caught me out too - another 'uh-oh' moment.

 

Regarding the Replica RB as mentioned above, in case anyone's interested thejunctionbox.net currently has one in white-roof Inter City Executive livery for £80....................oh, I should mention it comes with three matching FOs and a BCK! Looks like a tidy set, all boxed too. No connection to trader other than as a happy customer.

 

 

[Kirby Uncoupler]

Hi Everyone,

      That dark inky blue had to go, it was bugging me. I've replaced the blue on my blue-grey example, with Precision Rail Blue, all other colours are untouched. In blue-grey you have to decide whether you want an RB, or a RBR, the grey painted middle kitchen window points towards RBR, as does the black underframe (BR changed from the 1966 brown, back to black around 1978). The supplied interior is an odd mix of original RB style saloon seating, and the later RBR style counter (which is also slightly in the wrong position), but no big deal, no one's gonna see it. Being a lazy tight wad, I retained the printed "Buffet Restaurant" slogans, by rubbing down after painting, but slightly mucked up one side, it would be easier to replace or go over the originals with new transfers, which I had to do with the "kitchen" tags, and for re-numbering. I removed the third end step before repainting, and scraped the roof ribs off with a curved blade, if careful you can leave that unpainted, just rub vertically with fine emery. The solebar has to be repainted in the new blue too. Below, you see how it now matches with Bachmann's blue on a Mk1 and a Mk2F.

 

 

Now for a bit of showing-off, Hornby's bar counter needs moving to the right slightly, on an original RB there was actually an inner door, to the left of the counter, which lined up with the outer door (clear glass, not grey droplight), for public access. This was done away with, as part of the 1970s RBR rebuild, and the space was taken up by a storage cupboard, and the buffet till was positioned behind this, in what used to be the transverse "lobby". For a bit of fun, as well as shifting my counter, I also lowered it and added the glass display on top. Stan the bar steward(!), has escaped from a pack of Bachmann Blue Pullman crew. In the 60s and 70s spare Pullman crews could appear on normal services, but probably not by the late 70s, I could always paint Stan's lapels white I s'pose? I rounded off the seat tops, and painted them orange, as a token effort of the infamous plastic bucket seats. Orange painted-on curtains to finish off.

                                                                                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Kirby Uncoupler
spelling mistake

[cravensdmufan]

22 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

A good job Hornby didn't use this shade of BR blue on their 08s, 31s & 50s, which only makes this all the more inexplicable.

 

Absolutely agree.  Just when you think they have got it right (love my BR Blue Class 87) they go back to the really dark blue again. 

 

As a result I didn't buy any Mk2e/f's not will I buy this RB.  Which is a shame because they are really nice models.

 

(OT but I'm really fearful for the APT if they go back to that terrible dark cream representation of Executive Light Grey.) 

[InterCitySpud]

55 minutes ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Hi Everyone,

      That dark inky blue had to go, it was bugging me. I've replaced the blue on my blue-grey example, with Precision Rail Blue, all other colours are untouched. In blue-grey you have to decide whether you want an RB, or a RBR, the grey painted middle kitchen window points towards RBR, as does the black underframe (BR changed from the 1966 brown, back to black around 1978). The supplied interior is an odd mix of original RB style saloon seating, and the later RBR style counter (which is also slightly in the wrong position), but no big deal, no one's gonna see it. Being a lazy tight wod, I retained the printed "Buffet Restaurant" slogans, by rubbing down after painting, but slightly mucked up one side, it would be easier to replace or go over the originals with new transfers, which I had to do with the "kitchen" tags, and for re-numbering. I removed the third end step before repainting, and scraped the roof ribs off with a curved blade, if careful you can leave that unpainted, just rub vertically with fine emery. The solebar has to be repainted in the new blue too. Below, you see how it now matches with Bachmann's blue on a Mk1 and a Mk2F.

 

 

Now for a bit of showing-off, Hornby's bar counter needs moving to the right slightly, on an original RB there was actually an inner door, to the left of the counter, which lined up with the outer door (clear glass, not grey droplight), for public access. This was done away with, as part of the 1970s RBR rebuild, and the space was taken up by a storage cupboard, and the buffet till was positioned behind this, in what used to be the transverse "lobby". For a bit of fun, as well as shifting my counter, I also lowered it and added the glass display on top. Stan the bar steward(!), has escaped from a pack of Bachmann Blue Pullman crew. In the 60s and 70s spare Pullman crews could appear on normal services, but probably not by the late 70s, I could always paint Stan's lapels white I s'pose? I rounded off the seat tops, and painted them orange, as a token effort of the infamous plastic bucket seats. Orange painted-on curtains to finish off.

                                                                                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

 

Brilliant counter and glass cover, captured perfectly,  Stan seems a proper bar steward!

 

I'm sure I can read Maxpax on the coffee cups!

[4SUB]

My delivery of all 8 new Hornby RB's finally arrived today (They left TMC on Thursday!). 

 

Just to mention regarding S1759 converted for used in 8-VAB unit 8001, S1758 was also partly converted (not gaining 27 way control jumpers). S1758/9 were later replaced by RMB's S1872 and S1873 in summer 1974.

 

Further information can be found in th Blood and custard article on the stock for the Bournemouth line electification:  https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3TC-4TC-4REP-Bournemouth-1966.html 

 

S1873 in hybrid 8 MIG unit in 1983 (Blood and Custard) 

 

S1872 also worked with 4-GIC units:  https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4CIG.html

 

 

[InterCitySpud]

23 hours ago, 4SUB said:

My delivery of all 8 new Hornby RB's finally arrived today (They left TMC on Thursday!). 

 

 

 

 

Have you any weathered versions? I don't think I ever saw a totally clean blue/grey anywhere! A considerate weathering might really bring out this new RBR.

 

On a cheeky side note, looking forward a little into where to go with MK1s might Hornby consider a RKB as a follow up some day? They again covered many eras and would also sit comfortable in a rake of Mk3s, Mk2s, steam, diesel to ACs, I think some are still working privately but I'm not 100% sure.

[InterCitySpud]

On 27/12/2020 at 21:41, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Hi Everyone,

 

 

I knew I had met Stan before somewhere!

 

Here he is working with his team on a Mk3 TRUB

[InterCitySpud]

Sorry if this has been posted before but I found this lurking in my reference photos, maybe it will help on internal detailing?

[SRman]

The Mainline/Replica model, excellent as it was, suffers slightly from over-prominent window frames. Many years ago I bought a green one with a scratch on one side at a much reduced price. When it came to repainting it, I filed the window frames down somewhat, then painted the rims black, and the effect is almost flush-glazed, because the sides were commendably thin.

 

On a much lighter note, somewhere back in the 1970s, Model Rail Constructor ran an April article with plans for the British Rail toasted teacake. That would be an ideal subject to finish ff your new Hornby models! 

Edited December 30, 2020 by SRman

[Mophead45143]

Had two nice parcels arrive in the post this morning, one being one of the new Bachmann sales area exclusive 45's, the other being a Hornby RBR.

 

The RBR is a nice model and I'm glad I did decide to get one. However, the photo below really does show that the attempts at BR blue between Bachmann & Hornby are chalk and cheese! The RBR will definitely be getting it's blue re-sprayed at somepoint! 

 

Also, I'm not sure anyone ever picked up on it already (apologies if they did) but there is a very obvious blue 'highlight' around the grey. You can clearly see two different shades of blue before the white lining starts. 

 

 

Cameron

[cctransuk]

35 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

Had two nice parcels arrive in the post this morning, one being one of the new Bachmann sales area exclusive 45's, the other being a Hornby RBR.

 

... there is a very obvious blue 'highlight' around the grey. You can clearly see two different shades of blue before the white lining starts. 

 

 

I suspect that the upper half of the body is painted grey; then the blue and the white lining are applied over the grey.

 

The blue being somewhat translucent, the grey shows through as a lighter band around the lining.

 

John Isherwood.

[mikesndbs]

Question!

 

The older Mk1 stock were vacuum braked and after 1977 the Buffets became dual braked or air brake only? 

Sorry brain has locked up.

 

Can I confirm that R4973A Mk1 RB(R), M1657 - Era 7 is as was after the 1977 upgrade?

 

Thanks

Edited December 31, 2020 by mikesndbs
Lost connection

[InterCitySpud]

4 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

Had two nice parcels arrive in the post this morning, one being one of the new Bachmann sales area exclusive 45's, the other being a Hornby RBR.

 

The RBR is a nice model and I'm glad I did decide to get one. However, the photo below really does show that the attempts at BR blue between Bachmann & Hornby are chalk and cheese! The RBR will definitely be getting it's blue re-sprayed at somepoint! 

 

Also, I'm not sure anyone ever picked up on it already (apologies if they did) but there is a very obvious blue 'highlight' around the grey. You can clearly see two different shades of blue before the white lining starts. 

 

 

Cameron

 

Yes it's a real shame that there can't be some agreement between manufacturers over BR Blue, I wish they would all meet up for a beer and finally choose a RAL number, they can then continue the fight elsewhere.

On the other hand, why would they make it so easy? It sells more paint and spray guns!

 

Another point previously mentioned is the guttering is also painted red but as you can see in this image the red band only ran under the guttering edge. Worth touching up and a thoroughly decent weathering to bring out those window frames for which Hornby should take credit.

[stovepipe]

On 31/12/2020 at 13:12, mikesndbs said:

Question!

 

The older Mk1 stock were vacuum braked and after 1977 the Buffets became dual braked or air brake only? 

Sorry brain has locked up.

 

Can I confirm that R4973A Mk1 RB(R), M1657 - Era 7 is as was after the 1977 upgrade?

 

Thanks

 

That one was air brake only, but some of the others were dual braked.

[mikesndbs]

Did a bit of a review 

 

[Fredo]

Is the Hornby R4973 model of M1712 dual braked or Vacuum braked only? Thanks Fred 

[willc789]

Could anyone shed some light on the differences between the previously released BR Green "Restaurant Buffet Car" and the newly announced BR Green "Kitchen Car" in the 2021 range? To the untrained eye they both appear to be identical and diagram 24? 

 

Thanks

[markw]

The difference is nearly 50 years.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/26064304056/

 

And an incorrect era in the description.

[3rd Rail Exile]

On 06/01/2021 at 16:08, willc789 said:

Could anyone shed some light on the differences between the previously released BR Green "Restaurant Buffet Car" and the newly announced BR Green "Kitchen Car" in the 2021 range? To the untrained eye they both appear to be identical and diagram 24? 

 

Thanks

 

I agree with you - they do look the same (other than the letting you refer to).  Looking in Parkin the previously released S1757 and S1765 were built in Lot 636 (completed 03/1962) to Diagram 24, and allocated new to the Southern Region.  The newly-announced S1696 was built in Lot 628 (completed 12/1961 according to the Supplement to Parkin), also to Diagram 24, but appears to have been allocated new to the Eastern Region, and stayed there (or the North Eastern) until disposal - 02/2004 according to Hugh Longworth's book (but see below).  

An internet search then finds it in the hands of various organisations - An RCTS document (Pcsbra56.doc), of 2002 mentions it in the hands of Rail Charter Services (and being in Green), which I'm guessing covers the timescale of the picture linked by @markw. 

 

4 minutes ago, markw said:

The difference is nearly 50 years.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/26064304056/

 

And an incorrect era in the description.

 

I can find internet subsequent references to it being in the ownership of DBS and then Locomotive Services Ltd.  

 

So the green/Southern Region guise appears appropriate only for its post-BR charter career...  I can't imagine that's what Hornby intended...