Hornby "Skaledale" on eBay

[SteveyDee68]

Hope everyone is staying home and healthy...

 

With time on my hands, I have been perusing eBay for all manner of items, and am always surprised at the differences in price asked for the same item, especially for "Buy It Now" auctions. I am not referring to a certain infamous seller who hikes his prices not so much skyward as stratospheric, but just generally.

 

My attention has been drawn to the prices asked by retailers in their eBay shops, but there is one trend that I have seen which I have taken to messaging the sellers to draw their attention to.  And that is?

 

Has anyone noticed how many older, non-Skaledale Hornby buildings are being advertised as "Skaledale"?

 

I am referring to the range of buildings Hornby produced for the "train set" market, which are clip together kits. I have seen many listings of these as "Skaledale", which they are a long way from being anything like the quality.

 

If these were being sold at low prices I could ignore them, but often they seem to be priced more in line with actual Skaledale products. Is this a clear case of misrepresentation? Newcomers to the hobby will have heard of Skaledale and may assume these are part of that range and then pay more for such items than possibly the items warrant.

 

I know any selling price is how much the buyer is willing to pay, and I also realise that in these strange times businesses need as much cash flow as possible (which is why I am buying my PLA Peckett loco from my local shop at a higher price than from a "box shifter" at a much lower price), but am I alone in thinking that retailers (especially, being the professionals so to speak) should be clear and correct when listing items for sale on eBay?

 

Apologies for the ramble - I am genuinely interested in RMWebbers' responses!

 

STAY HOME - STAY SAFE - PROTECT THE NHS

Edited April 9, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Typos!

[Les Bird]

I quite agree with what you say about misleading descriptions. In addition to model railways I have an interest in old diecast vehicles, particularly buses. Many times I have seen the Dinky Toys 290 bus described as being 1/43 scale. This error is not, of course, discernible from photographs. I know it's usually a case of "buyer beware" but for those not familiar with the item in question, buying can be a costly mistake,

[cypherman]

Hi,

I do hope you have informed Ebay about this. As if what you say is happening I believe that this is fraud. under the misrepresentation act 1967.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/7

Edited April 10, 2020 by cypherman

[The Johnster]

There are giveaways that indicate when a seller is ‘trying it on’ that will arouse your suspicions though as you say newbies are vulnerable.  This is why I advise newbies to avoid s/h in general and ‘Bay in particular in favour of new models with warranties until they have a bit of experience under their belts and can spot the dogs, though of course many of them are on restricted budgets and must be tempted. 
 

Phrases like ‘suitable for Hornby’, ‘strong runner’ (sounds positive but meaningless) ‘MIB’ (if it's never been out of the box how does the vendor know what condition it’s in), ‘lovingly restored’, ‘as new’ are all sale-speak, and indicate that you should avoid.  A good seller will stick to the bare facts; ‘Triang R52 Jinty, good overall condition, runner, some wear, £xx’, straightforward, honest, and trustworthy. 
 

Other giveaways are tenders coupled wrong way round, ‘rail engine with coal coach model toy’ and badly spelled innaccurate descriptions of probably stolen or at best house clearance provenance.  A loco that has ‘never been run’ will have it’s lubrication seized up solid with age and lack of use, fine if you’re happy with stripping down and deep cleaning/lubing but not a good thing...

Edited April 10, 2020 by The Johnster

[SteveyDee68]

I have in the past drawn attention to inaccuracies in sellers' descriptions by posing rhetorical questions and providing the correct information at the same time, but only  after checking what else the seller has for sale and what language they are using. Have been thanked on more than one occasion because I have spotted they are selling multiple different items but have cut and pasted description info and sometimes neglected to update the text.

 

Retailers also have to bulk upload items, and again that can lead to errors. One I picked up in the last couple of days were new OO gauge wagons being sold with photos of the same in N gauge! Which bit is wrong, the photo or the description? (Apparently Bachmann have said to use the N gauge photo as no official OO photo of the model yet available)

 

I give the benefit of the doubt to sellers unless they start hiking prices and describe items as "rare" or "difficult to get hold of" - then I point out the error sometimes a little sarcastically. For example, the "rare" Skaledale water mill at a fair few tenners available for sale with multiple other sellers  at the same time at half the cost!  That makes me think of Barnum - there's a sucker born every minute!

[GWR-fan]

Recently an Australian eBay seller had two listings stating Hornby R3086 "Flying Scotsman" locomotive.  One listing was actually the static diecast magazine giveaway and the other listing the Corgi 120th scale diecast loco.    I messaged the seller advising him of the discrepancy but received no response.  The listing timed out and was then relisted exactly as before.  The seller chose to relist the items knowing full well that what he had was incorrectly described.  He initially wanted a start bid of $120.00 Aud but as the listings churned over he dropped the bid price to $99.00.  I lost interest in the listings so have no idea of the outcome.  I believed that I was providing some assistance to the seller as no doubt any successful bidder would have launched a dispute for an item not as described.  The seller chose to ignore me.

[DCB]

28 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Recently an Australian eBay seller had two listings stating Hornby R3086 "Flying Scotsman" locomotive.  One listing was actually the static diecast magazine giveaway and the other listing the Corgi 120th scale diecast loco.    I messaged the seller advising him of the discrepancy but received no response.  The listing timed out and was then relisted exactly as before.  The seller chose to relist the items knowing full well that what he had was incorrectly described.  He initially wanted a start bid of $120.00 Aud but as the listings churned over he dropped the bid price to $99.00.  I lost interest in the listings so have no idea of the outcome.  I believed that I was providing some assistance to the seller as no doubt any successful bidder would have launched a dispute for an item not as described.  The seller chose to ignore me.

 

I often search "Horby" and similar mis spelled items as they do tend to sell within my price range.  Its where the bargains are Job Lots, mis described items. Job lots, 10 locos for  £150, is my idea of a bargain.  locos sold with the wrong tenders, you just have to be careful

Some of the very high price items may be nastier than you think, they may well come with a supply of white powder or similar pharmaceuticals.  

[Steamport Southport]

I think people are mistaking eBay for a place where you buy stuff which is correctly labelled. That's the whole point. It was for amateurs to sell things found in grandads loft or your aunties shed. Think of it as a car boot sale on the internet rather than a trip to TESCO.

 

It was set up as a way of getting rid of things cheaply. It was only when proper shops got involved that it went rubbish. I wish they would ban retailers from it and it went back to the days it was just selling old tat that nobody wanted.

 

"Anyone want these old toy trains found in the loft? Bidding starts at 50P". Was what it was originally about. Not people selling brand new Hornby.

 

So everyone selling on eBay should now have encyclopedic knowledge of what they are selling? No. Because the vast majority of sellers aren't experts. They are just average people in the street.

 

As long as they aren't being deliberately fraudulent, then it's covered by WYSIWYG. If you have a genuine problem then eBay itself is great for solving disputes. The phrase is "Buyer beware".

 

 

 

Jason

[friscopete]

Ebay is pretty fab really .I first heard of it when I called one of Monogram/Revell s kit designers in California  about figures way back when .As we were taking I mentioned some models I had seen . GMP Peachstate Midgets but couldnt get as they were sold out .'I'll try ebay "says he . "Whats ebay  ? "says I .So he told me about this auction site ,Sounded great though not in the UK so I watched out and lo and behold it came out here .We did a deal and I got my Midgets ,even then no great bargain  so nothing changes .The thing is if you want it you usually get it ..It may not be  a bargain but neither are brick and mortor dealers from experience .

[SteveyDee68]

13 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Recently an Australian eBay seller had two listings stating Hornby R3086 "Flying Scotsman" locomotive.  One listing was actually the static diecast magazine giveaway and the other listing the Corgi 120th scale diecast loco.    I messaged the seller advising him of the discrepancy but received no response.  The listing timed out and was then relisted exactly as before.  The seller chose to relist the items knowing full well that what he had was incorrectly described.  He initially wanted a start bid of $120.00 Aud but as the listings churned over he dropped the bid price to $99.00.  I lost interest in the listings so have no idea of the outcome.  I believed that I was providing some assistance to the seller as no doubt any successful bidder would have launched a dispute for an item not as described.  The seller chose to ignore me.

 

When I contact private sellers about items with faulty descriptions I usually mention about avoiding disputes from unhappy buyers. Most respond positively because most times it is a genuine mistake - as Steamport Southport said in his post, 

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

It was for amateurs to sell things found in grandads loft or your aunties shed.

 

Those sellers have genuinely appreciated my help. (One lady was doing her best with an inherited collection, but had been packing locos etc into whichever boxes seemed to fit and then listing them by the box description!)  Clowns like the Australian seller above who ignored the help offered deserve whatever karma or eBay throws at them!  Genuine sellers acknowledge the errors, and either correct the listing or remove it.  Perhaps it is the thieves and chancers who don't respond positively to freely offered advice?

 

As eBay has expanded and become a marketplace for both used and new goods, I can understand retailers using it as another avenue to sell, as it reaches a wide market. Smaller retailers do not have the technological infrastructure to list masses of items for sale on their own websites - eBay provides the infrastructure so it makes sense for them to use it.

 

I agree with what Steamport Southport says, though - "Buyer beware".  Two examples - I got a bargain Hornby Southern Region Commuter set (Schools class loco plus three Maunsell coaches) but the pony truck pivot was broken on the loco and requires repair - this wasn't mentioned in the description and when I asked they checked the other set they had and that had the same issue. They apologised and offered a partial refund or a return. 

 

Second example - I won a Bachmann Lord Nelson Class loco described as "good runner" - took it along to my local shop to run it on their test track and it ran beautifully in reverse, but forwards could only run light engine!  Contacted the seller who claimed it ran fine for him and it just needs a service. Did that, no better, follow up correspondence gets no response. Repairs at the shop will cost approx £30 and I won the loco for £45! Nothing in the description to warn me off, good seller rating etc, but I won't be buying from him again!

 

[The Johnster]

There is a perception that I frequently come across among the muggles (non railway modelling public) that there is money to be made out of old toy trains.  If I mention in the pub that I model railways, I can more or less guarantee a response not a million miles from 'oh yes, I've got an old Hornby set in the attic, all metal, 3 rail, lovely; Duchess of Montrose I think it's called.  Must be worth a bomb by now; they're very rare you know'.  Sigh.  'Is it in the original box, in good nick'?  'Nah, it's in an old wooden toybox, but it's all there, I think.  The engine's green, and the coaches are red and yellow'.  'Then it's probably now worth much; have a look on eBay see what they go for'.  'You're kidding, mate, trying to get the price down for yourself'.  'I'm not, I've got no interest in it, not the sort of thing I'm doing'.  'But you said you were into model railways mutter grumble walk away...

 

So muggle sellers are going to get descriptions wrong, which does not sit well with the trades descriptions act or whatever the equivalent is in your country, but is inevitable with sellers doing the best they can, but GWR-fan's example does seem to be genuinely ingenuous, not to mention mendacious.  These people end up with bad ratings and re-appear with different accounts, but the photographic style and the phraseology follow them; you can pick 'em out with a bit of practice.  Whilst it might be unfair to genuine muggles, but I avoid involvement with anyone who mis-describes a model, especially if the reserve is a bit on the heavy side.

 

I mostly use 'Bay for BIN, as I find auctions to be time suckers and depressing when you are outbid, but if there is something I particularly want in an auction that is not available BIN at what I consider a reasonably price (as buyer, it is up to me to decide what is a reasonable price), I'll join in the auction.  I picked up some Collett non-ganwayed coach bodyshells very cheaply this way for future projects.  This is where 'Bay comes into it's own; somebody thought 'well, someone, somewhere might actually want this stuff, if they've got Collett non-gangwayed coaches in mind, so I'll put them up for auction at a low reserve and see if I get a bite'.  He (or she) was right, I wanted them, and nobody else did so I got them for reserve; win win happy happy.

 

But human nature being what it is, there is a very short jump from this to 'good lord, somebody bought those bodyshells, people will buy anything, I can make a few wee bobeens here', and up go the reserves.  The key word in that sentence is 'make', an indication that the seller thinks he (or she) can make a profit.  On BSL aluminium bodyshells, come off it mate (or love).

[The Johnster]

I've only had one 'positively negative' experience with 'Bay, to be fair, a BIN Bachmann 56xx sold as MIB, the cheapest BIN 56xx at that time by about £20.  The loco turned up in what I thought was the wrong box, but may not have been as it turned  out; the loco had some minor damage to filler caps but the worst feature was that it had been sprayed BR black and rather poorly given a unicycling lion in the wrong place, which was starting to flake off.  Overspray had obscured the cab windows and buffer beams, and when I took the body off as part of my inspection/relube routine that I do with all locos I acquire, from whatever source, it was plain that the body tooling was a green one, presumably in a GWR livery as described on the box.  The other giveaway was that there was no smokebox numberplate and the smokebox numberv transfers had been applied to a plasticard plate, which had fallen off in the box.  I'd been sold a pup.

 

Now, this was no disaster as I am well capable of repainting and applying new transfers; in fact I was intending to use BRITISH RAILWAYS Gill Sans on this one anyway, and ordering new number plates including the smokebox number.  The usual improvements, real coal, crew, weathering and so on, and I am also capable of replacing cab windows with 'Glue'n'Glaze'.  The oversprayed buffer beams were left as they were and weathered.  The loco runs well and I am not unhappy with it; in fact I'd have probably bought it as a fixer upper had the seller described it properly.  I was, after all, paying at least £20 below the going rate, so the deal was a fair one.  But it was not an honest one, and left an unpleasant taste...

 

The seller had good ratings, but his mendacity (he clearly isn't a muggle) has cost him my custom ever again.  

 

 

 

[hayfield]

On 09/04/2020 at 11:19, SteveyDee68 said:

Hope everyone is staying home and healthy...

 

With time on my hands, I have been perusing eBay for all manner of items, and am always surprised at the differences in price asked for the same item, especially for "Buy It Now" auctions. I am not referring to a certain infamous seller who hikes his prices not so much skyward as stratospheric, but just generally.

 

My attention has been drawn to the prices asked by retailers in their eBay shops, but there is one trend that I have seen which I have taken to messaging the sellers to draw their attention to.  And that is?

 

Has anyone noticed how many older, non-Skaledale Hornby buildings are being advertised as "Skaledale"?

 

I am referring to the range of buildings Hornby produced for the "train set" market, which are clip together kits. I have seen many listings of these as "Skaledale", which they are a long way from being anything like the quality.

 

If these were being sold at low prices I could ignore them, but often they seem to be priced more in line with actual Skaledale products. Is this a clear case of misrepresentation? Newcomers to the hobby will have heard of Skaledale and may assume these are part of that range and then pay more for such items than possibly the items warrant.

 

I know any selling price is how much the buyer is willing to pay, and I also realise that in these strange times businesses need as much cash flow as possible (which is why I am buying my PLA Peckett loco from my local shop at a higher price than from a "box shifter" at a much lower price), but am I alone in thinking that retailers (especially, being the professionals so to speak) should be clear and correct when listing items for sale on eBay?

 

Apologies for the ramble - I am genuinely interested in RMWebbers' responses!

 

STAY HOME - STAY SAFE - PROTECT THE NHS

 

 

It may well be the same seller or someone who also stretches the truth. deciding to call known branded ready to run items "kit built" granted some may have been repainted or have additional detailing, but certainly not kit built and the loco in question was never a kit

 

Also I have noticed additional brand names being added in the title. Both of these actions are to both give extra credence to justify exceedingly high prices and to hook into searches of premium brands or models

[kernowtim]

It is possible that the seller assumes all model buildings are scaledale, as all vacuum cleaners are Hoover, although its also possible they are "pulling a fast one"

I have messaged buyers about listing errors, sometimes I get a thanks from someone selling their late father's trains,  often totally ingnored and once got an irate message from someone selling a Hornby loco with number and box picture of sound fitted model as dcc fitted when I asked if it had a sound decoder fitted. Nowhere was it mentioned the sound decoder was swapped for silent,  got blocked and listing was unchanged. .

Edited April 11, 2020 by kernowtim
Typo

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I think people are mistaking eBay for a place where you buy stuff which is correctly labelled. That's the whole point. It was for amateurs to sell things found in grandads loft or your aunties shed. Think of it as a car boot sale on the internet rather than a trip to TESCO.

 

It was set up as a way of getting rid of things cheaply. It was only when proper shops got involved that it went rubbish. I wish they would ban retailers from it and it went back to the days it was just selling old tat that nobody wanted.

 

"Anyone want these old toy trains found in the loft? Bidding starts at 50P". Was what it was originally about. Not people selling brand new Hornby.

 

So everyone selling on eBay should now have encyclopedic knowledge of what they are selling? No. Because the vast majority of sellers aren't experts. They are just average people in the street.

 

As long as they aren't being deliberately fraudulent, then it's covered by WYSIWYG. If you have a genuine problem then eBay itself is great for solving disputes. The phrase is "Buyer beware".

 

 

 

Jason

 

Jason

 

You are correct in saying items have got more expensive, it started off as an auction site which is the bit I like. However the vast bulk is a retail site which sometimes does come in very handy

 

Usually if you want a bargain you have to enter the auction, even these are getting expensive in some cases as far more folk want to join in bidding. In an auction you only need 2 bidders wanting the same item and the price can rocket. With so many off work at the moment certainly the kit and parts side of the business has seen the prices rise,

 

As for misleading descriptions, there are those who are selling off someone else's items, often disposing a deciests collection. In this case errors can be forgiven

 

Someone who is selling for a business (full or part time) should ensure their description is accurate.

 

I usually let the photo(s) do the describing, especially when its a non dealer selling. However if it says the item is working and its not. I would expect a refund. If the condition is not stated I bid on the basis its a non runner and providing its the same as the photo I accept it as it is. But I like others like bargains so I rarely bid on expensive items and when I do it has to be spot on

[SteveyDee68]

I have been lucky on the whole with my eBay purchases, even with more expensive items - an iPad that turned out to be a more modern and higher spec version than the one described, a 27" iMac as the one and only bidder and £200 cheaper than the going price, and an Apple MacBook for £100 after trying to help the seller get it running (it wouldn't start up) and he decided he simply couldn't be bothered with the hassle! (Starting price on that auction was £180, reserve price £240 and going price at the time for that model was about £350!) Spending time to sort out the software, replace the hard drive with a SSD hard drive and increasing the memory turned a non-runner bargain into a little powerhpuse, just like fettling poor runners or otherwise improving bargain priced models.

 

I have to agree though, that many private sellers now seem to be selling at more like shop prices!

[GWR-fan]

There is one seller on Australian eBay who is selling off a very large collection of model trains and toys that were part of a family member's deceased estate.  His listings refer to a website set up to market the goods.  Most of the items are described as new.  Surprisingly,  the seller does get some sales but it seems that in his research he only found retail prices for his items and so most items,  whilst possibly never used,  are listed at full retail.    In many, many months of these listings not one item has seen a reduction in listing price.   In that time I have sold identical items in identical condition and was lucky to get even half the price this seller is wanting.

 

Many years ago I collected LGB trains with all purchases being made in the USA.    A woman was selling her deceased father's LGB trains and going on the item description of mint condition I bid up the items offered as they were very rare and I won all of her listings,  paying a premium price.   Every item was severely flawed with most covered in paint overspray.  One flatcar actually had either children's or a dog's teething marks in it, stretching the length of the car.  This was prior eBay taking an interest in a buyer's side of a dispute.   I messaged the seller and she said that I must have made a mistake as the items she sent me were her father's cherished possessions and she remembered as a child watching her father play with them.  Obviously her memories clouded her vision.  She responded that my message had caused her great distress and that she had not slept for several days.  I decided that the cost of returning the goods and raising any dispute with eBay would cause me nothing but additional expense so let the matter drop. 

 

 EBay has given me great joy but also caused me quite a bit of grief as at the time all my purchases were in the USA and I found that many sellers were little more than hustlers or grifters out to make money by deceit.  EBay's data retention usually did not exceed the economy shipping time taken to travel downunder  (8 - 12 weeks shipping time,  with the time limit on giving feedback 6 weeks after the sale),  so if a problem occurred like non-delivery (as happened on many occasions) then raising a dispute was pointless as eBay would have no data relating to the transaction and at the time eBay usually sided with the seller,  particularly if he was a power seller.  Once I found a core group of honest sellers I usually stuck with them.  These days I sell on eBay but never use the platform to buy anything.

[SteveyDee68]

Got to say I feel for modellers in the antipodes - not only are postal rates jaw dropping but the waiting time for things to arrive?! A friend of our family has relatives in Australia - she told my mum on Good Friday that received last year's Christmas card the previous Friday!  By my reckoning, that means sending out cards in August to make sure they arrive by December!