Help with WWII vehicle loads

[dube]

Looking for some help with putting WWII vehicles on appropriate wagons, layout when built will be based on the southern area 1944.

 

Firstly the airfix / Hornby lowmac is I think very similar to a design used by the big 4 so I need to repaint, source transfers for these, looks like the Matador would be out of gauge but the Bedford and CMPs Oxford make look good, need to be tied down and wooden chocks used, although not sure if they would have been typically moved by rail 

[dube]

Next up what to do with the dingo scout cars, probably repaint without any decals to look like they had just come from the factory and cut the aerials off. I like these dingos and as there reasonably cheap could have quite a few, was going to put them on Bachmann 1 plank wagons, until I realised Bachmann did the usual and tried to make a BR design which I think should have had 8 shoe clasp brakes anyway into something used by the LMS. The Bachmann 3 plank wagon is more like an LMS design but I think these were mostly unfitted with brake blocks on one side but that’s an easy fix, also Parkside do a 1 plank wagon which might be better

[petethemole]

Most soft-skin motor transport was moved within UK during WW2 by road convoy.  MT forming part of armoured units may have been included on trainloads of AFVs. Some batches of new vehicles may have been delivered by train.  Generally, rail transport was for tracked vehicles, to prevent unnecessary wear to the tracks (and roads).  Wheeled AFVs, including your dingos, would usually go by road, but any attached to a tank unit might travel by rail with the rest of the unit.  They would be on a wagon they could be driven onto, preferably from the end.  I'm sure that some rail movements like yours did occur. Nice vehicle models!

[dube]

Then there’s the bofors guns which need some work, like cutting the barrels off and putting through the rest and glueing back on, probably had covers on, and it looks like there loaded with live rounds, think the Airfix bofor had a magazine cover. As oxford do the CMP LAA and the Bedford QLBs could do a train from LAA regiment / battery. The fit well onto the mainline / Bachmann bolster wagons but I would have thought the wooden bolster would have been removed and may have been more usual loads for warflats / parrots

[Tony Cane]

As has been previously mentioned, as a general rule, only tracked vehicles would usually be moved by rail. The main exception being the initial deliver from the factory.

Here are three pictures showing military loads during WWII.

While far less interesting a vast number of American vehicles arrived in large crates.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, dube said:

 

A slight 'Off Topic' if I may ...... you'd never see a 'foreign' loco coal wagon on any of the railways before nationalisation - and rarely afterwards ................. if your Schools had to shunt its own coal wagons they would quite likely have been from Stephenson Clarke - though 'all' Private Owners wagons were pooled by this time.

[gwrrob]

22 minutes ago, Tony Cane said:

As has been previously mentioned, as a general rule, only tracked vehicles would usually be moved by rail. The main exception being the initial deliver from the factory.

Here are three pictures showing military loads during WWII.

While far less interesting a vast number of American vehicles arrived in large crates.

 

 

 

 

A great photo Tony and do you know if they are GWR Loriot's or Hydra's wagons.

[Trains&armour]

3 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

 

A great photo Tony and do you know if they are GWR Loriot's or Hydra's wagons.

A great photo indeed. The first wagon  is a Loriot A, renamed B after 1909, diagram G2. The middle wagons is a Loriot E, diagram G20. The third I cannot identify right now, but probably somebody else can! The loads are QF 5.5" guns.

I knew that Loriot's were used for military transports, but this is the first good photo I have ever seen.

[Wickham Green too]

4 hours ago, gwrrob said:

A great photo Tony and do you know if they are GWR Loriot's or Hydra's wagons.

Painted grey - so they're Loriots ........................ 42024 is Loriot B, built ( as Loriot A ) as 1889/90 and - as Train&Armour has beaten me to it - 42158 is a Loriot E built some time between 1908 & 1927.

 

 The smokebox looks very much like a Wainwright 'C' and the chimney seems horribly familiar - so it's probably 'somewhere in Southern England' ..... but where ??!?

[WillCav]

I agree with trains&armour and Wickham Green too on the first two. Does the third one look like a g42 loriot p? Something about the angled ends reminds me of them. 

Will

Edited April 10, 2020 by WillCav
Typo

[Fat Controller]

That's an interesting set of photos. I'm not sure what the tracked vehicles are in the third photo; first thoughts were Universal Carriers, but they looked a bit cluttered inside. Could they be Priest or Sexton self-propelled guns, that haven't yet had guns fitted? The station they're being unloaded at could be Ludgershall, which served the east side of Salisbury Plain. It had a very similar curved platform.

[Trains&armour]

47 minutes ago, WillCav said:

I agree with trains&armour and Wickham Green too on the first two. Does the third one look like a g42 loriot p? Something about the angled ends reminds me of them. 

Will

I'm leaning towards the third one being a Loriot P as well. It has the correct frame type made of I beams

[Trains&armour]

12 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

That's an interesting set of photos. I'm not sure what the tracked vehicles are in the third photo; first thoughts were Universal Carriers, but they looked a bit cluttered inside. Could they be Priest or Sexton self-propelled guns, that haven't yet had guns fitted? The station they're being unloaded at could be Ludgershall, which served the east side of Salisbury Plain. It had a very similar curved platform.

Definitely Carriers. And on the first photo are  late type M5A1's fresh from the USA, and a M2 Halftrack. Don't know about the cranes...

[Tony Cane]

Here is an enlarged and enhanced scan of the third vehicle, in case it helps.

[Trains&armour]

And a nice load for your LMS 3 plank opens:

6 pdr AT guns being loaded at Barker Perkins Westwood works

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Tony Cane said:

Here is an enlarged and enhanced scan of the third vehicle, in case it helps.

Hmmmmmm .................... what I thought looked like a Wainwright 'C' appears to have a smokebox numberplate - so either the photo is quite a while AFTER the war or ( more likely ) it's actually an LMS constituent loco !

[gwrrob]

1 hour ago, Trains&armour said:

And a nice load for your LMS 3 plank opens:

 

6 pdr AT guns being loaded at Barker Perkins Westwood works

 

Bachmann do the 3 plank so who does the 6 pounder AT Sierd.

[Tony Cane]

5 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Bachmann do the 3 plank so who does the 6 pounder AT Sierd.

Airfix do  a Bren gun Carrier and 6lb AT gun set.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/airfix-vintage-bren-gun-carrier-and-6pdr-anti-tank-gun-1-76.html

[jim.snowdon]

23 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Hmmmmmm .................... what I thought looked like a Wainwright 'C' appears to have a smokebox numberplate - so either the photo is quite a while AFTER the war or ( more likely ) it's actually an LMS constituent loco !

What you are thinking of as a smokebox door numberplate is actually a horizontal handrail on upper part of the door.

 

Jim

[Trains&armour]

15 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Bachmann do the 3 plank so who does the 6 pounder AT Sierd.

 

8 minutes ago, Tony Cane said:

Airfix do  a Bren gun Carrier and 6lb AT gun set.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/airfix-vintage-bren-gun-carrier-and-6pdr-anti-tank-gun-1-76.html

Agreed. But this a kit from 1964 and very basic. But still, a recognizable version of the  6 pounder. And cheap. However, for those with deeper pockets, Milicast do a nice 1/76 one in resin. Or, as an alternative, buy a 1/72 version. With a gun this size the scale difference is not really noticeable. Plastic Soldier Company has a 6 pounder in it's range, but alas it's only available in a wargame package, two guns with crew and two Lloyd carriers. Later this year ACE is planning to release a 1/72 6 pounder as well. And knowing the brand, that will be an accurate and detailed model.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Trains&armour said:

And a nice load for your LMS 3 plank opens:

6 pdr AT guns being loaded at Barker Perkins Westwood works

 

The wagons in this photo are ex-Midland 3-plank dropsides. The nearer one is marked 10 tons so is almost certainly the rather rare D818 type, 16'0" over headstocks, 9'6" wheelbase, built during the Great War. Note the difference in the LMS-added sprung door mechanism - single on the nearer wagon, double on the other.

 

LMS-built 3-plank dropside wagons were of 12 ton capacity, on steel underframes.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Compound2632

[Fat Controller]

4 hours ago, Trains&armour said:

Definitely Carriers. And on the first photo are  late type M5A1's fresh from the USA, and a M2 Halftrack. Don't know about the cranes...

Thanks for that; the M5A1 was the Stuart or Honey, wasn't it?

There is a name on the counterbalance of the cranes- looks like 'Osgood' to my ageing eyes.

[kandc_au]

18 hours ago, Tony Cane said:

 

I love the tracked vehicle in the 3 plank!

Khris

[Wickham Green too]

15 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

What you are thinking of as a smokebox door numberplate is actually a horizontal handrail on upper part of the door.

 

Jim

OK, you've got better eyesight than I have ! .............. unfortunately it's still not anything SECR as they had continuous handrails looping round the top of the 'box.

[A Murphy]

"I love the tracked vehicle in the 3 plank!" 

 

Commonly known as a Bren Gun or Universal Carrier, I think that is a Mk2 - that and the Mk 3 served Brit and Commonwealth forces in every theatre  during WW2 and were adapted for all sorts of weird and wonderful purposes.

 

Best,

 

Alastair M