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DJH NER/LNER/BR D20 Kit - Probably a lot of advice required


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Despite its appearance faults and after a struggle, the main tender body, including wheels, has now been assembled thus.

 

IMG_20200723_172516.jpg.15f04f206f30eb105de73e296138ae36.jpg

 

I say a struggle because the fit of the parts was not great and the wheels had to be somehow captured between the two sides whilst soldering everything together from the inside.  But, it's amazing how useful elastic bands are and it's always good to have a skinny soldering iron bit.  So the loco/tender combo looks quite handsome IMHO.

 

IMG_20200723_183401.jpg.1d3ee973740e2419a9b030d24b6adf50.jpg

 

The main purpose of starting the tender before fully finishing the loco has to check whether the loco could indeed pull the tender without massive wheel spin (the tender as you see here is a hefty old lump, heavier probably than some RTR locos) and whether the loco was then capable of pulling it up the incline to the fiddle yard.  The results can be seen below.

 

 

So, a big sigh of relief.  But I haven't tried any haulage tests yet.  More on that another time.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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  • 5 months later...

 

Apologies for the extreme delay in posting any updates on my progress with this kit.  There is a simple reason - basically I got fed up with it.  Nothing in this DJH kit seems to go together without a disproportionate (to my eyes) amount of fettling.  The fit of some parts is very poor and the smaller cast white metal parts are covered in flash.

 

Anyway, I decided to grit my teeth and get on with it.  So, continuing my concerns about haulage capacity (especially up the severe gradients on my layout) I decided to focus on the tender because several more parts (side rails, etc) and corresponding more weight had yet to be added.  This has now been done bar handrails and a couple of minor detail cast metal parts - see below.

 

IMG_20210104_165328.jpg.396822ea220bf01bb188aa49a73fc3f8.jpg

IMG_20210104_165356.jpg.a5c2f787a3ee10ee61530b6c56f37eb9.jpg

 

I added a coupling for the haulage test and, initially, the results were very discouraging, the loco almost refusing running uphill light engine just showing how heavy the tender is so I adjusted the loco to tender draw bar so that some of the tender weight was transferred to the loco without causing any derailment issues.  This resulted in a vast improvement light engine so a single vehicle was added behind the loco.  Again, uphill running was successful - see video.

 

 

Further testing will take place shortly.  I wanted to fit the hand rails to the tender but, guess what, there aren't enough hand rail knobs in the kit to complete all the hand rails on both loco and tender, bl**dy typical, more on order.  Not sure I will bother with any further kits from DJH but, if I do, I now know what to expect which I suppose is part of the learning curve.

 

By for now.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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      Easy but expensive option is to dump the Tender and use a either a Dave Bradwell, London Road or Arthur KImber version of the same Tender , all of these are etched kits much better detail and much lighter.

      I sold  my DJH D20 Tender on,  and used a Dave Alexander (no longer available) Whitemetal version, much better detail and lighter as well, fitted with a 52F models etched underframe for much better running.

 

     I also will not buy anymore DJH kits, very overpriced ,and most are very old designs, and havent been improved/upgraded for years, that is the reason for the flash on the parts, knackered moulds.

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To echo what Mick has said, I have also used a 52F chassis on a Dave Alexander tender and it makes a huge difference to the haulage capacity of the loco (which in my case is a J27). The 52F chassis runs in proper frame bearings and is far more free running than was the case when the tender had the old whitemetal sub-frame. I think the 52F chassis cost me around ten quid so not a huge outlay for improved performance. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

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On 06/01/2021 at 19:20, micklner said:

      Easy but expensive option is to dump the Tender and use a either a Dave Bradwell, London Road or Arthur KImber version of the same Tender , all of these are etched kits much better detail and much lighter.

      I sold  my DJH D20 Tender on,  and used a Dave Alexander (no longer available) Whitemetal version, much better detail and lighter as well, fitted with a 52F models etched underframe for much better running.

 

     I also will not buy anymore DJH kits, very overpriced ,and most are very old designs, and havent been improved/upgraded for years, that is the reason for the flash on the parts, knackered moulds.

 

On 06/01/2021 at 19:35, CXW1 said:

To echo what Mick has said, I have also used a 52F chassis on a Dave Alexander tender and it makes a huge difference to the haulage capacity of the loco (which in my case is a J27). The 52F chassis runs in proper frame bearings and is far more free running than was the case when the tender had the old whitemetal sub-frame. I think the 52F chassis cost me around ten quid so not a huge outlay for improved performance. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

I hear what you are saying guys and thanks for taking the time to comment on my ramblings.  However, "I've started so I'll finish" - the tender that is.  The handrail knobs arrived the other day so, apart from a bit of gap filling, the tender is now finished bar vac pipes, painting and coal load - see below.

 

IMG_20210113_154614.jpg.24fa7c5db5122314c223b63a09cb5f57.jpg

IMG_20210113_154603.jpg.ed9801847880a42ac40f20baaa80f97b.jpg

 

Had a bit of a struggle with the handrails and knobs so I'm not relishing doing those around the loco boiler.

 

Regards,

Brian.

Edited by Brian D
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Hi Brian

 

Love your work on this - gives me hope!!

 

Just about to start on my DJH D20, working out where to put the motor gearbox combo - I bought mine off the auction platform, came with the D13 motor and Romford gears.  I'm still trying to work out if I can make the D13 fit!

 

cheers

CB 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14/01/2021 at 10:22, Fangio said:

Hi Brian

 

Love your work on this - gives me hope!!

 

Just about to start on my DJH D20, working out where to put the motor gearbox combo - I bought mine off the auction platform, came with the D13 motor and Romford gears.  I'm still trying to work out if I can make the D13 fit!

 

cheers

CB 

 

 

As you can see at the start of this thread, I used a copy of a scale drawing (that was published in the Railway Modeller) to trial where the motor/gearbox might go.  I suggest you do the same.  If you haven't got the RM article, PM me.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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On 23/01/2021 at 17:43, Brian D said:

 

As you can see at the start of this thread, I used a copy of a scale drawing (that was published in the Railway Modeller) to trial where the motor/gearbox might go.  I suggest you do the same.  If you haven't got the RM article, PM me.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

Thanks Brian,

Have opted for a High Level RR+ (probably a 40:1?) and a coreless motor to fit inside.  That should do the job.

cheers

chris

 

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Unfortunately, there is a problem with the DJH model of the North Eastern 3940 gallon tender for the D20. The cut-outs in the tender frames are the wrong shape. All of the 3940 gallon tenders, attached to D20's, had the 'half moon' shaped cut-outs as illustrated in the photo below.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

1 D20 2013.jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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  • 9 months later...

Well, it's been a while since the last update entirely due to a lassitude on my part to get on and finish the job.  I think I have been discouraged by the the fact that the kit parts require so much fettling and also the errors in the kit as advised by your generous contributions to this thread, such as the tender frame apertures mentioned in the last post above.  My error of gluing the wrong safety valves in position also dampened my spirits somewhat.

 

However, the old mojo is back so I'm making a new start by removing the safety valves.  Having researched on line (good old Google), I have discovered that nail varnish remover, provided it contains acetone, will "dissolve" superglue.  So, I've given it a try and the "wrong" safety valves have been successfully removed - see below.

 

 IMG_20211118_153236.jpg.1081cade22d9a6976e6c1d5db824f2e7.jpg

 

There is a large hole to fill, as can be seen, before my preferred Ross Pop valves, now on order, can be fitted.  This will represent the BR condition of my chosen prototype, at least as far as safety valves are concerned.

 

More news as and when.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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Before proceeding further, I couldn't resist a quick trial run (it's been a while :rolleyes:) so this is the latest "Haulage Test".

 

 

 

 

When the loco is finished, this would be its train on the layout, i.e. four Hornby "suburbans".

 

Regards,

Brian.

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The new safety valves arrived today so I have been pouring over my Yeadon's to try and work out exactly where to fit them, the Railway Modeller plan sheds no light as it features the Ramsbottom type.  I've also plumped for an actual prototype and discovered that I need to add a small square feature to the cab front immediately behind the safety valves - see sketch below.

 

 

IMG_20211120_154002.jpg.448365439113863aaa479c8d52c1e9dd.jpg

 

The single whistle for the cab roof and new smoke box door dart (the kit dart is entombed in flash) have also been ordered.  I have also tracked down an intermittent shorting site which was causing the loco to stop/start, this being one of the driving wheel coupling rod pins catching the footplate, so a bit more judicious filing of said footplate to give more clearance will be required.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

I have filed a bit more away from the footplate in the area adjacent to where the offending coupling rod pin was shorting and running is now as smooth as you like.  All the bits I ordered have arrived and various holes filled so the smoke box dart...

 

IMG_20211128_174151.jpg.70fc22a285b0ff31b8b71bd8a2dd17b8.jpg

 

...and the whistle and safety valves fitted.

 

IMG_20211128_174205.jpg.4e8b53ff9ed139c071b713e90c9af932.jpg

 

Next up, which I have been dreading, is to fit the extensive and curved main boiler hand rail.  I'm planning on cutting and bending it to shape, threading the single smoke box front handrail knob onto the resulting wire appendage and sliding the whole thing onto the boiler, having previously fixed the side knobs to each side of the boiler.  That is, unless anyone knows a better :(.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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Preperation.

I would recomend leaving the whistle and valve off until painted , otherwise you will have to clean the paint off again. A lot easier to leave the Buffers off as well . Prime the body then mask the Bufferbeam before top coat , paint the bufferbeam last , red paint covers poorly over Black, and will need a few coats minimum. Red on primer, no more than two coats needed. Cab sides/ends need filling too, and any other gaps before priming.

 

Handrails

 

Form a approx curve to match the Smokebox front, fold around one side only add a knob to the curve area place at front of smokebox , adjust curve till you have a match allowing for the knobs on each side , easier if you place the first two in the smokebox sides first than bend to final shape, this will trap the front knob, you cannot fit later . Then glue/solder the side knobs on fitted to the wire , not before that point, otherwise you cannot adjust for the final fit .

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Hello Brian

 

It’s good to see you making progress with the build.

 

Re the handrail I agree with what Mick says about forming it and I always solder/ glue the handrail knobs in after forming the handrail.

 

To add my two penny worth. I form an upside down U shape from the handrail wire. The curve should match the smokebox curvature but a slightly smaller radius. Then the hand rail bends out at around at 30 degree (I guess) bend. After that it is bent at 90 degree along the boiler. The result is like one half of a pair of wire frame spectacles.

 

Hopefully you can see these transitions on the attached photo (apologies that it is blurry....it’s enlarged from another photo).

 

A6B27682-C879-4A91-8ABF-81955090035D.jpeg.8904a8e54e14102e34c33fce6d849922.jpeg

 

 

I would suggest practising on some wire off cuts to get the formation correct without worrying about the precise fit. Also be prepared to make mistakes and start again! 

 

Jon

 

 

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4 hours ago, Brian D said:

 

I have filed a bit more away from the footplate in the area adjacent to where the offending coupling rod pin was shorting and running is now as smooth as you like.  All the bits I ordered have arrived and various holes filled so the smoke box dart...

 

IMG_20211128_174151.jpg.70fc22a285b0ff31b8b71bd8a2dd17b8.jpg

 

...and the whistle and safety valves fitted.

 

IMG_20211128_174205.jpg.4e8b53ff9ed139c071b713e90c9af932.jpg

 

Next up, which I have been dreading, is to fit the extensive and curved main boiler hand rail.  I'm planning on cutting and bending it to shape, threading the single smoke box front handrail knob onto the resulting wire appendage and sliding the whole thing onto the boiler, having previously fixed the side knobs to each side of the boiler.  That is, unless anyone knows a better :(.

 

Regards,

Brian.

That’s how I do it - not my favourite job though.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 28/11/2021 at 19:49, micklner said:

Preperation.

I would recomend leaving the whistle and valve off until painted , otherwise you will have to clean the paint off again. A lot easier to leave the Buffers off as well . Prime the body then mask the Bufferbeam before top coat , paint the bufferbeam last , red paint covers poorly over Black, and will need a few coats minimum. Red on primer, no more than two coats needed. Cab sides/ends need filling too, and any other gaps before priming.

 

Handrails

 

Form a approx curve to match the Smokebox front, fold around one side only add a knob to the curve area place at front of smokebox , adjust curve till you have a match allowing for the knobs on each side , easier if you place the first two in the smokebox sides first than bend to final shape, this will trap the front knob, you cannot fit later . Then glue/solder the side knobs on fitted to the wire , not before that point, otherwise you cannot adjust for the final fit .

 

On 28/11/2021 at 20:58, Jon4470 said:

Hello Brian

 

It’s good to see you making progress with the build.

 

Re the handrail I agree with what Mick says about forming it and I always solder/ glue the handrail knobs in after forming the handrail.

 

To add my two penny worth. I form an upside down U shape from the handrail wire. The curve should match the smokebox curvature but a slightly smaller radius. Then the hand rail bends out at around at 30 degree (I guess) bend. After that it is bent at 90 degree along the boiler. The result is like one half of a pair of wire frame spectacles.

 

Hopefully you can see these transitions on the attached photo (apologies that it is blurry....it’s enlarged from another photo).

 

A6B27682-C879-4A91-8ABF-81955090035D.jpeg.8904a8e54e14102e34c33fce6d849922.jpeg

 

 

I would suggest practising on some wire off cuts to get the formation correct without worrying about the precise fit. Also be prepared to make mistakes and start again! 

 

Jon

 

 

 

On 28/11/2021 at 23:00, Michael Edge said:

That’s how I do it - not my favourite job though.

 

Many thanks for your comments Guys - all arer being carefully considered and also filed here for my future reference.

 

Progress has been glacial for two reasons.  Firstly, I'm trying to martial enough bottle confidence together to bend the boiler handrail to the correct shape.  However, there is another reason.  Examining BR era pics of the handrail...

 

IMG_20211208_162617.jpg.24f01d60150e8efe44e53d12bf947d3c.jpg

 

...there appear to be differing handrail knob lengths on the smoke box and boiler thus ensuring that the handrail is dead straight without any bends in the vicinity of the smoke box/boiler junction.  So to replicate this, and in the absence of any in the kit, I ordered some Alan Gibson long handrail knobs which are now to hand.  So taking 4 long knobs and one kit knob threaded onto a straight piece of handrail...

 

IMG_20211208_161627crop.jpg.de2687674b524a345b205bf03f6102cf.jpg

 

...a trial fit was made to see how it looked, see below.

 

IMG_20211208_162032.jpg.21e0fa855a61caa3092bf37a3085caaa.jpg

 

This looks OK to my eyes so I will now fix all the side handrail knobs in position and think about progress the bending up of the handrail to suit.

 

Thanks again for all the advice freely offered and gratefully received.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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Another possible dodge , fix the Front Top handrail in postion and cut the curved wire so each side fits just inside the knob. Easier said than done as the cutting will have to be very precise. It will hopefully be easier, than trying to juggle with all the parts loose.

 

Dont forget to fill all the gaps first , otherwise it will be a real pain cleaning up, with the wire fixed in place.

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1 hour ago, micklner said:

Another possible dodge , fix the Front Top handrail in postion and cut the curved wire so each side fits just inside the knob. Easier said than done as the cutting will have to be very precise. It will hopefully be easier, than trying to juggle with all the parts loose.

 

Dont forget to fill all the gaps first , otherwise it will be a real pain cleaning up, with the wire fixed in place.

 

Thanks for that suggestion.  It might well come to that if plan A fails :(

 

Thanks again for all of your advice micklner.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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