Piko loco problems when running DCC

[Whitcan]

I am looking for some opex from you.  I picked up a Piko BB66000 loco when in Paris on business last year. The shop fitted an ESU chip and the loco was tested. It obviously needed to be run in but seemed ok.  However, now that I am in a position to get it running on the layout,  having had it running for a while on a rolling road, the loco still only has two speed settings: Off and Rocket!  I am using ROCO Multimaus but it is the same on my friend's Digitrax system. 

 

I have a similar issue with a Piko DB V218 loco.  I have heard that there can be a problem with Piko locos but has anyone else experienced this issue? More importantly, is anyone aware of a solution?  If not,  I think it will be off to Ebay as it is totally useless for exhibition running on DCC but seems ok on DC.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Paul

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Might be better to post this on the DCC forum where you will find more experts. I doubt if it is anything too complicated for those that understand DCC.

 

But if you do want to sell it, let me know.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

As above, best posted in the DCC forum. First questions will be whether you have attempted any CV adjustments, and if so with what results? Some mechanisms do require quite 'extreme' adjustment to obtain satisfactory motor control; my best to date one that needed CV5 set at about 40 from the 255 step range to limit top speed to a realistic scale maximum.

[Barry Ten]

A bit late to this, but my Piko 66000 didn't run well on DCC at all until I did (as 34C says) a lot of adjustment of the motor parameters. I'm afraid it was just trial and error until I got it running smoothly. I also found that the pickups need to be working perfectly as the two traction tyres only leave six wheels collecting current, and it's easy to get a stall if one of these isn't picking up reliably. It's a nice-running model once these things are addressed, though.

[jivebunny]

My local club has a couple of Piko 66000s and they run fine, although I seem to remember the "shunt" function (F6) does the opposite of what it's supposed to and activates "rocket mode". Can't remember which chips they use though. They pre-date my arrival at the club and due to covid restrictions the building is out of bounds until further notice so I can't check, but it's no doubt just a badly-programmed chip.

 

I've seen a few cases where someone's got a new loco, added it to DecoderPro and then written values without doing a "read all". Could be that your shop did something similar, or the chip wasn't entirely new and had already been messed about with. A CV reset might get more realistic running out of it, and failing that then I'm sure some adjustment of the Vstart, Vmid and Vhigh values will get it sorted (as well as a look at the F6 values).

 

Alan

[Whitcan]

Thanks for the replies. I couldn't get a realistic speed with any adjustments.  Even the lowest settings possible were at mach 2.  Same with a German V218 for the German version. 

 

The BB66000 has gone and a Vossloh replacement sourced. That works absolutely fine.  The chip from the 66000 is now in a Jouef Autorail and with the same settings it hardly moved. A tweak and it is operating right as rain. Who knows?

 

Never mind, the roster of locos for Venterol-Rousset is almost complete. Just need a Y8000. I picked up a Roco loco on ebay in the hope that I could hard wire it but that doesn't seem possible, unless anyone knows better?  If so, please let me know!

 

Paul

[jivebunny]

From what I've gathered, converting the old Roco Y8000 borders on the impossible due to severe space constraints and the fact that it's a split chassis design.  A few pictures here to give you an idea of what's involved. Pasting the URL into Google Translate will allow you to read it in (approximate) English.

 

Roco's brand-new Y8000 is due for release in about six weeks and would save you the hassle (if not the cost...) of attempting this conversion. I've got one on pre-order, although the only version available for the moment is the digital sound version equipped with digitally-operated couplings, so it's not cheap https://www.roco.cc/en/product/243671-0-0-0-0-0-0-002003-0/products.html

 

There's likely to be a non-sound version in the future though. Just make sure you don't order the AC (Marklin 3-rail) version...

 

Funnily enough, following my replies further up, it just so happens I ordered a Piko BB 8500 last week alongside a rake of matching VB2N coaches (used on Parisian suburban lines).

 

I fitted the loco with a Zimo decoder and lo and behold, "stop" and "light speed" were the only speed settings it was willing to run at! Upon investigation, I noticed that the default acceleration and deceleration rates were set to something like "2" on this decoder, which will mean the motor gets up to full speed very quickly indeed. It's possible you have a similar configuration on your ESU chip.

 

Whilst reconfiguring my decoder I switched to "speed curve" mode, and also provisionally set the acceleration rate to 50 and deceleration to 30, which gave much more realistic operation. However as I changed both settings at the same time I can't say with absolutely certainty which one made the difference, although logic would suggest it's more to do with the acceleration / deceleration rate. 

 

I then dismantled the thing and re-wired the lights so that I could have independent control of  the red markers, since by default it has simple directional lighting that doesn't allow you to switch off the rear lights when coupled to a train.

 

A little photo just for good measure.

 

Alan

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by jivebunny
Resized image

[Whitcan]

Thanks. That confirms my thoughts on the Y8000.  I am going to see what the new Roco model is like.

 

 

[SRman]

I have several Piko locos on DCC with no problems to report.

Seeing as the OP lists the decoder fitted as an ESU, you could try the ESU 'auto tune' function. It may possibly be required more than once to get the best result.

On the main line, ensure there are a few feet of clear track in front of the locomotive, then program it on the main: set CV54=0, then go out of programming mode, and select function F1. The loco should shoot forwards at high speed, then stop. The decoder, meanwhile, is altering various parameters to try to match the motor requirements.

[Whitcan]

Thanks for the tip. That loco has had the chip removed and has been sold on as DC loco but I have a Piko German  loco with the same problem, don't know what chip though. Would the same technique work or is that just an ESU function? The ESU chip is now in a Joueff autorail and working absolutely fine!

[SRman]

The technique is only an ESU one, for versions 4 and 5.