West Highland and Kyle photographs.

[w124bob]

Two links from an award winning photo journalist, there actually 10 rail related galleries. Many of the pictures are human interest but worth looking at for the detail, sadly for us there is almost no rail related info not even dates, just location . Click the "less info" for a bigger picture, my guess for the WHL gallery is around 1982 as it's pre Westie logo but post white stripe class 37, Kyle line is all class 26 action, pre Scotrail.

https://alainlegarsmeur.photoshelter.com/gallery/Britain-Train-Journeys-West-Highland-Line/G0000bmADr7hNx8I/C0000fDBIA.BDNkE

https://alainlegarsmeur.photoshelter.com/gallery/Britain-Train-Journeys-Kyle-of-Lochalsh-Line/G0000KT4D_h.Aavc/C0000fDBIA.BDNkE

They are obviously all copyright hence the links.

[Kylestrome]

42 minutes ago, w124bob said:

Two links from an award winning photo journalist, there actually 10 rail related galleries.

 

Good find!

 

These photos were taken for the book "Stopping Train Britain" by Alexander Frater, published in 1983. Only a few made it into the book and the printing is unfortunately very dark. The pictures certainly look a lot better on screen.

 

David

Edited April 13, 2020 by Kylestrome

[young37215]

A bump for this, the photographs are high quality. The WHL ones are predominantly on the Mallaig extension and whilst there are a few further south, they do'nt go below Bridge of Orchy. Still worth a trawl, I enjoyed wrking my way through them. 

[The Pilotman]

Thanks for the links. In photo number 37 is a coach type I’ve never seen or heard of before; looks like a Brake Composite Corridor converted into a Buffet Second Brake. What code would that be? BSB?

[young37215]

Agree its a BSO(T) in p37, the coach is clearly an open and has 5 windows. The only other 5 window option would be a BCK as both BFK and BSK only have 4. The link below takes you to the thread relating BSOT's, one day I will get around to some internal pictures of 9000 which, from memory, remains in largely as BSOT converted condition.

 

I am intrigued at the use of the bi directional facility allowing wrong road running at Bridge of Orchy in P 27 & 28. I cannot think of a previous instance of seeing this in use at Bridge of Orchy prior to the introduction of sprung points under the RETB programme. P 23 shows a double headed train facing north on the wrong road which leads me to thinking that the wrong road running was due to a problem with the train loco where a pilot loco was required. It's a shame you cannot see the other road, I suspect that there might be a freight train sat there awaiting a loco. 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by young37215

[Corrour]

I understood the Up Line at Bridge of Orchy became bi-directional under Tokenless Block in the 1960's, in order to allow switching -out?

[keefer]

1977 Sectional Appendix has Craigendoran - Fort William as single-line with crossing loops at all stations except:

Tyndrum Upper - Up Passenger Loop

Bridge of Orchy - Down Passenger Loop.

Line is Electric Token except: Crianlarich - Rannoch, Tokenless Block

[Corrour]

Hi Keefer,

 

Please see attached scheme plan extract that shows while the Loop remained for Down traffic the former Up Loop became bi-di with install of signal 13, or at least thats my understanding?

 

best wishes,

 

Robert

[keefer]

Thanks for that - I take it then, that before the changes, this would have been designated a Crossing Loop i.e. the down side would be used as a matter of course? (Like the rest of the line).

Whereas after the changes, it had become a single line with the down loop available (and only used) if required?

Edited June 12, 2020 by keefer

[keefer]

To sort of answer my own question, i remembered the was an online 1960 Sectional Appendix.

The relevant page for this line: http://www.britishrailways1960.co.uk/ScRWCM01.html

Bridge of Orchy and Tyndrum Upper both shown as Crossing Loops.

Presumably there was an operational need/advantage to the changes?

[Corrour]

Hi Keffer,  The Tokenless Block was driven by a number of reasons but reducing operating costs was envisaged as with the Crainlarich - Rannoch set up you could switch out any, or all, of the intermediate boxes at Tyndrum Upper, Bridge of Orchy and Gorton. Also the TB had the advantage the signalman could switch out whilst a train was still in section, but heading away from his box.  However the ability to switch out became a double edged sword. The signallers in the intermediate boxes realised that they would lose overtime and the Murray's who ran Gorton resigned. The railway couldn't get anybody to take such a desolate posting so the box was switched out almost after TB was commissioned and never reopened. I have been told this in large part was why TB wasn't extended over the rest of  the WHL. If your interested I can give a bit more info on this interesting bit of signal history if you ping me your email via site.

 

kind regards,

 

Robert

[keefer]

Thanks for the info Robert, interesting bit of social history too.

[young37215]

2 hours ago, keefer said:

Thanks for that - I take it then, that before the changes, this would have been designated a Crossing Loop i.e. the down side would be used as a matter of course? (Like the rest of the line).

Whereas after the changes, it had become a single line with the down loop available (and only used) if required?

 

This is developing into an interesting discussion. Based on the WTT’s from the early 80’s, Bridge of Orchy was a frequently used crossing point for both passenger and freight during this period. I have looked at many photos of the era but don’t recall any showing northbound trains running wrong line until the RETB era. 

 

[keefer]

I suppose that fits with what Robert was saying - despite the official re-designation (from CL to DPL), this only really mattered when the box was switched out?

i.e when switched in it was used as a normal CL, when switched out it was a bi-di single line. If that was overnight, it would explain the lack of pictures of any wrong-line running.

(I'm interested in all aspects of railways but my signalling knowledge is basic at best!)

 

As you say though, it's all interesting stuff - especially when it's more involved than at first glance, due to local circumstances.

[Corrour]

Hi Keefer. Thats it, the Up-Down Main would allow through running with box switched out; and King Lever allows you to set signals/points for what would normally be conflicting moves.

 

best wishes,

 

Robert

 

 

[BoD]

What would  be going on at Glenfinnan in photo 104 and others?

[John M Upton]

Dropping off or picking up post, parcels and maybe fresh fish in those newspaper wrapped packages 

[young37215]

3 hours ago, BoD said:

What would  be going on at Glenfinnan in photo 104 and others?

 

I think you mean why the light engine movements? If so then it looks to me that the locos were swapped over with 039 returning to Fort William and, presumably, the unidentified centre head code 37 going back to Mallaig. At a guess 039 had a problem or was low on fuel. 

[BoD]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Dropping off or picking up post, parcels and maybe fresh fish in those newspaper wrapped packages 

Thanks John but it was the light engine moves I was referring to. The numbering of the photos on the index page doesn’t match the number of the photo when you click on it. The photo I was referring to was 119 on the index page (but 104 when you enlarge it).  

Edited June 14, 2020 by BoD

[BoD]

26 minutes ago, young37215 said:

 

I think you mean why the light engine movements? If so then it looks to me that the locos were swapped over with 039 returning to Fort William and, presumably, the unidentified centre head code 37 going back to Mallaig. At a guess 039 had a problem or was low on fuel. 

Quite a complicated move then as they both had trains.  Previous photos show what appears to be a similar move but with two split head code locos. 
 

[Graham R]

3 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

I think you mean why the light engine movements? If so then it looks to me that the locos were swapped over with 039 returning to Fort William and, presumably, the unidentified centre head code 37 going back to Mallaig. At a guess 039 had a problem or was low on fuel. 

I asked the same question to a former West Highland line signalman, and his view was either fuel as you have said, or else to get a snowplough-fitted loco back to where it was needed for the Fort William - Crianlarich section across Rannoch moor.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Graham R
Can’ t spell “snowplough”

[mallaig1983]

19 hours ago, Graham R said:

I asked the same question to a former West Highland line signalman, and his view was either fuel as you have said, or else to get a snowplough-fitted loco back to where it was needed for the Fort William - Crianlarich section across Rannoch moor.

I've been studying this too with some confusion. I had assumed that 039 had been detached to go and rescue the centre box but then 039 is pictured in the up loop so quite clearly a loco swap. This would certainly explain it better. I do love the West Highland with all its quirks.

 

Andy.

[young37215]

There are 2, possibly 3 different groups of pictures showing light engine manourves at Glenfinnan with class 37's being swapped around. Picture 114 shows 039 alongside another unidentified split box loco, possibly 037 which appears at Glenfinnan in picture 95. Picture 120 shows what is probably 039 and an unidentofied centre headcode one. I do'nt know what they were doing for sure and can only speculate as before in this thread. Frankly who cares, they are just a cracking set of pictures from an era that many of us look back on with great affection. 

[mallaig1983]

1 hour ago, young37215 said:

There are 2, possibly 3 different groups of pictures showing light engine manourves at Glenfinnan with class 37's being swapped around. Picture 114 shows 039 alongside another unidentified split box loco, possibly 037 which appears at Glenfinnan in picture 95. Picture 120 shows what is probably 039 and an unidentofied centre headcode one. I do'nt know what they were doing for sure and can only speculate as before in this thread. Frankly who cares, they are just a cracking set of pictures from an era that many of us look back on with great affection. 

Here here