Will we lose shops and how badly?

[Joseph_Pestell]

44 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

I looked to buy some IOM G gauge stock from KGR, did not even bother to reply to my mail. Must not need to business.

 

E-mail is not that reliable. It may be that your server does not "talk" to theirs.

 

Give them a call and check they have received the e-mail.

 

I did not know that IoM stock was available in G. Very tempting.

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, bartram108 said:

Why on earth won't  manufacturers supply retailers with no physical outlet. Can beggars really be choosers?

 

Because they want permanence for and from retailers and not someone with boxes piled up in a spare bedroom flogging at bottom dollar on the internet with less protection for consumers.

 

Why do you want them to do it differently?

[LBRJ]

I did once hear a good rumour that suggests just maybe sometimes manufacturers should send their rep round to check places out.

 Having Market Hall as part of one's  address does not a market stall make.

 

Otherwise I am all for a Wholesaler / Manufacturer keeping the level playing field.

[JohnR]

57 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Because they want permanence for and from retailers and not someone with boxes piled up in a spare bedroom flogging at bottom dollar on the internet with less protection for consumers.

 

Why do you want them to do it differently?

 

I wonder, if we see a large number of retail model shops close, they may have to reconsider that. 

 

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, JohnR said:

they may have to reconsider that. 

 

If they did it would send more to the wall.

[mdvle]

1 minute ago, JohnR said:

 

I wonder, if we see a large number of retail model shops close, they may have to reconsider that. 

 

 

Perhaps.

 

On the other hand it is also possible that some people may find this a good time to get into the business - if the predicted (generally and not just in this hobby) thinning out of small retail happens there could in theory be both some lowering of rents, but also opportunities where close competition no longer exists in an area.

 

Not all closures will be because of issues with the hobby, but rather closures will happen because the owners retire out (perhaps viewing reopening to the public risky given their age and/or health conditions) or because they are unable to move to the modern world and have an online presence in addition to the physical store.

[JohnR]

16 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

If they did it would send more to the wall.

 

I'm not sure that it would - if I want to buy something online for cheaper than my local model shop sells it for, I already can.

[wasabi]

3 hours ago, bartram108 said:

Why on earth won't  manufacturers supply retailers with no physical outlet. Can beggars really be choosers?

 

You might as well sell direct and cut out a middleman with nothing to otherwise attract a customer.

[IPW] 

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, JohnR said:

if I want to buy something online for cheaper than my local model shop sells it for, I already can

 

And if more people local to you did too what is the likely outcome? Some need advice, support and a place to touch and feel.

[JohnR]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

And if more people local to you did too what is the likely outcome? Some need advice, support and a place to touch and feel.

 

And as we see fewer and fewer model shops, people are further and further away from that. The manufacturers only supplying a bricks and mortar store makes sense when everyone has one within a reasonable distance. 

[AY Mod]

23 minutes ago, JohnR said:

And as we see fewer and fewer model shops, people are further and further away from that

 

What may be a cause of that (beyond retirement and rising overheads)?

[JohnR]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

What may be a cause of that (beyond retirement and rising overheads)?

 

Well, this thread is about the impact of COVID on model retailers. But a combination of factors seem to be making it tougher and tougher for smaller shops (of all descriptions) to survive.

[EmporiaSub]

What worries me more is whether the restrictions on going in to a smaller shop will put many off.

I went in to one of them, down on the South Coast, last Saturday, and knew what I wanted but usually browse and end up with more. However, whilst the staff were friendly and helpful, I felt under pressure to get the one item and get out, as there was another person outside waiting to come in. So all I spent was the minimum.

[Graham108]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Because they want permanence for and from retailers and not someone with boxes piled up in a spare bedroom flogging at bottom dollar on the internet with less protection for consumers.

 

Why do you want them to do it differently?

Where do I say that I do? And by putting the 'you' in bold type I'm assuming that you think I'm in a minority of one.

 

However if I was a manufacturer I;d be keeping ALL options open, regardless of whatever trading conditions dictate at the time. Who knows what's around the corner (and I'm not just speaking with hindsight)

[Chris M]

57 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I'm not sure that it would - if I want to buy something online for cheaper than my local model shop sells it for, I already can.

From what I have seen a fair number of local model shops are competitive on price with the big online retailers.  The main problem with local model shops is that they can't carry the depth of stock that the big boys carry.

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, bartram108 said:

1. Where do I say that I do?

2. And by putting the 'you' in bold type I'm assuming that you think I'm in a minority of one.

 

1. Where a statement is prefaced with such phrases it sounds like you feel they should.

 

2. You are not alone but I asked why you feel they should. I'm not expecting you to speak on behalf of others.

 

 

[mdvle]

52 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

And as we see fewer and fewer model shops, people are further and further away from that. The manufacturers only supplying a bricks and mortar store makes sense when everyone has one within a reasonable distance. 

 

As noted by wasabi, if the manufacturer doesn't want to support having physical stores then the manufacturer may as well just go to selling direct and eliminate the wholesale discount.

 

But while there may be fewer physical stores, there is still a healthy number of them across the UK making them a possible visit for people on personal/business trips or even a specific trip (like for example someone considering entering the hobby based on seeing stuff on social media).

 

And to follow up on my previous post, maintaining a physical store requirement also allows for changes in say 5 years when perhaps retail changes yet again and people prefer in person shopping vs. online (as say some of the artificial conditions that allow certain multi-national companies to have a cost advantage perhaps get eliminated).

[Gwiwer]

18 minutes ago, EmporiaSub said:

What worries me more is whether the restrictions on going in to a smaller shop will put many off.

I ..... knew what I wanted but usually browse and end up with more. However, whilst the staff were friendly and helpful, I felt under pressure to get the one item and get out, as there was another person outside waiting to come in. So all I spent was the minimum.

That situation is only temporary.  Many shops (not just model shops) were gearing up to re-open with a guidance of 2m social distancing but can now adjust - if they choose - to accommodate the recent 1m+ easing.  That can allow more people into a shop if space permits.  It is the physical layout of the shop which determines such things.  Aisles less than 1m wide will make it difficult; aisles more than 1m wide cannot be provided in all shops.  I have in mind the many "corner shop" establishments which often pack things in tightly.  And some model shops are in older premises where wider aisles just cannot be provided without removing most of the display stock customers would wish to browse.  

 

There are other issues.  Many retailers are limiting browsing (again as a temporary measure) to limit the potential for queuing outside while others take their time and because items handled but put back should be sanitised if possible; some shops are quarantining such goods instead.  That adds to the workload for a depleted staff who also have to work within covid-secure guidelines and may not be able to operate as they normally would.  

 

One-in-one-out and a queue at the door is not ideal.  It also isn't permanent.  This hobby teaches many of us patience and this is just another area in which we need to show that.  

 

It's hard being in retail at the best of times.  It is encouraging to hear that some of our hobby retailers have experienced an upturn in business despite the emergency and having to close their shop doors.  Many will survive.  The government has acted to support as many workers as it reasonably can for quite a long time.  It won't catch everyone and not every shop will re-open.  But we could be in a far worse position than we are.  

[robertcwp]

I wonder if the shops might benefit from the absence of exhibitions and other events, making it more likely that people will go to their local model shop if they are lucky enough to have one. Ian Allan's one remaining book and model shop at Waterloo reopened yesterday (they are closing at 4.00 pm each day) and I visited today as I had to go into London to collect some essentials from the office. I didn't waste much time in going to Alton Model Centre when they reopened a few weeks ago and they had a queue, which I thought was a good sign.

[Widnes Model Centre]

 

We have had to introduce a maximum of four customers in the shop. But, that depends on what area they wish to shop in.   In practice and a perfect world, someone looking at Paints, plastic kits, model railways, radio control. In that scenario we have room for at least another customer. We have queues unfortunately at our busiest times but have eased the queue by apologising for the delay. So far so good. Customers have been really supportive throughout and we are continuing our delivery service for those customers who are shielding, vulnerable or simply are not confident enough to leave their home.

 

It has been a great pity that some companies that we deal with have not been as supportive as our customers , this has been bitterly disappointing and damaging during Lockdown.

 

We don’t have an e-commerce website and have relied on our customer base who love to come here in person, as well as our regular mail order customers. 

 

I would like like to add that a lot of retailers came together to support each other from the first rumours of Covid 19 becoming a threat to the world. We thank all of those shops who have helped each other. If we didn’t have stock we found a shop that did have an item and then called the customer back with the other shops details. 

 

Deserving a special mention for those who helped us most to get through to this evening (who knows what tomorrow brings). Hornby and our good neighbours, Hattons. 

[Ravenser]

On 24/04/2020 at 16:38, Nick C said:

It's all a very difficult balancing act for those in charge - reduce the lockdown too soon, or too quickly, and the hospitals are overwhelmed and the death rate shoots up. Do it too late, however, and thousands of businesses go bust and the economy collapses, probably leading to even more deaths.

 

I've seen predictions that, for example, pubs and restaurants won't be able to open until the end of the year. I think I can be fairly confident in saying that most of them won't open at the end of the year - they'll either open in July/August or never again. Same goes for hotels, guesthouses, heritage railways, virtually everything in the leisure and tourism industry - the entire economy of many coastal towns. Similarly the food production industry needs to get back into full swing asap if we're not to have massive shortages in the autumn/winter - a shortage of food supply, leading to rising prices, combined with mass unemployment would lead to serious trouble...

 

As this thread has resurfaced , we now have a case of a speculative look into the future post where we know what actually happened. 

 

All the above were allowed to reopen from 4th July. Some may never reopen, having ceased to be viable, but basically they are back, as early as could be hoped. Model shops have been permitted to open since 15th June - though Kent Garden Railways has decided to go mail order only (I assume they don't stock Hornby or Bachmann). It doesn't look anywhere as bleak as some thought - though the exhibition situation is looking rather bad

 

I suspect Robertcwp may be right - if we can't buy at shows because there are no shows to buy at, then a physical shop or mail order are the only options left. And if we can't go to shows because there are none, then that leisure time may get reallocated to modelling at home

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ravenser

[Andy Hayter]

The issue of Bricks or clicks is an old one - at least 10 years old.

 

Clicks is fine for those of us who are already in the hobby.  We know what we are looking for (mainly).

 

Bricks on the other hand allow those on the high street - or increasingly in the trading estate - to peer in the window and maybe just be attracted.  Exhibitions also fulfil that role but as we know C19 has temporarily killed off that source of potential newbies to the hobby.  

 

So in answer to why B don't just do direct selling, the bricks establishments around the country act as a billboard for their products.   Without that where would the next generation of customers come from?  

 

Remember that H tried to undercut their Bricks establishments 6 or so years ago with their in house clicks establishment - and that did not end well for H.   The clicks establishment remains - but so do their bricks distributors.

[dagrizz]

We visited Bourton-on-the-water yesterday, primarily as tourists but I did go into the model shop there for a browse. It's a sizeable shop and must depend on casual trade from all the visitors to Bourton, whose population would not normally keep such a shop viable. The hobby does need shop windows in any form to attract people to it, an internet presence alone may not be enough.

 

I wasn't intending to buy anything but found a couple of things I wanted - a Skaledale telephone kiosk and Scenecraft post boxes. I don't think either are current items available from stock so it was nice to find them, and this to me is one of the joys of visiting shops, exhibitions, toyfairs etc. It will be a sad day if you can't do this anymore.

 

Graham

[blueeighties]

10 hours ago, EmporiaSub said:

What worries me more is whether the restrictions on going in to a smaller shop will put many off.

I went in to one of them, down on the South Coast, last Saturday, and knew what I wanted but usually browse and end up with more. However, whilst the staff were friendly and helpful, I felt under pressure to get the one item and get out, as there was another person outside waiting to come in. So all I spent was the minimum.

Agreed. The traditional main advantage of visiting a model shop has been to browse, chat, see what you are buying up close. Personally, as well as the obvious changes for health reasons, I think the psychological impacts of shopping in stores during Covid19 times are huge and will continue to have a significant and negative impact. 

In contrast, I'm sure most of you now know I run my business from home, traditionally I have always been busy since starting up 7 years ago. May and June of this year saw an unprecedented huge increase in business, especially online sales. All of my suppliers/trade circle friends with similar businesses experienced the same.

[caradoc]

10 hours ago, Chris M said:

From what I have seen a fair number of local model shops are competitive on price with the big online retailers.  The main problem with local model shops is that they can't carry the depth of stock that the big boys carry.

 

The other problem with shops, for me anyway, is not having one anywhere near ! Living 30 minutes train journey from Glasgow, my closest shops are Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh and C&M in Carlisle, both excellent shops but around another 60 minutes away from Glasgow Central. Hence visits are nowhere near as frequent as I would like, so with no shows just now, and no local shops, it is usually the internet for my purchases.