Will we lose shops and how badly?

[wasabi]

31 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

The other problem with shops, for me anyway, is not having one anywhere near ! Living 30 minutes train journey from Glasgow, my closest shops are Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh and C&M in Carlisle, both excellent shops but around another 60 minutes away from Glasgow Central. Hence visits are nowhere near as frequent as I would like, so with no shows just now, and no local shops, it is usually the internet for my purchases.

 

 

Same where I live in East London.  We did have the Engine Shed in Leytonstone but that closed some time ago for reasons that have never been clear, and the nearest shop now seems to be Invicta in Sidcup.  A friend of mine who lives down the road goes there occasionally but it really needs much of the day put aside for the trip, although at least he can pick up his papers whilst there.

 

For me, going to a model shop is something that I might do on holiday, but then I really need a wife-minding service to stop being nagged to make up my mind.  A couple of chairs and some coffee might do the trick.

[F-UnitMad]

18 minutes ago, wasabi said:

We did have the Engine Shed in Leytonstone but that closed some time ago for reasons that have never been clear

I thought that was a combination of the owner retiring, and the shop rent going through the roof? Or something like that, anyway....

[Nick C]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

As this thread has resurfaced , we now have a case of a speculative look into the future post where we know what actually happened. 

 

All the above were allowed to reopen from 4th July. Some may never reopen, having ceased to be viable, but basically they are back, as early as could be hoped. Model shops have been permitted to open since 15th June - though Kent Garden Railways has decided to go mail order only (I assume they don't stock Hornby or Bachmann). It doesn't look anywhere as bleak as some thought - though the exhibition situation is looking rather bad

 

I suspect Robertcwp may be right - if we can't buy at shows because there are no shows to buy at, then a physical shop or mail order are the only options left. And if we can't go to shows because there are none, then that leisure time may get reallocated to modelling at home

 

But, from what I understand, many were getting very close to the point of no return, and quite a lot of pubs in particular didn't make it. It remains to be seen just how good the patronage will be over the summer - it seems that bookings for hotels, campsites etc are doing well as people are desperate to get away, but will restaurants get the numbers they need to stay afloat - remembering that for many in the hospitality industry, they need to make enough money over the next two months to keep themselves going over the winter, and pay off at least the interest on the debts they will have built up over the closure. Plus there's still the risk of another wave... It certainly isn't over yet...

[hayfield]

My own view is that we have already lost them. Those who are still trading I expect will see an increase in business, especially with the loss of shows. Also many independent businesses in and around the business have seen business increase as many customers want to keep away from busy large town high streets. Also the traders I have spoken to have seen an uplift in online sales, again due to no show presence and people having more modelling time

[RJS1977]

15 hours ago, LBRJ said:

I did once hear a good rumour that suggests just maybe sometimes manufacturers should send their rep round to check places out.

 Having Market Hall as part of one's  address does not a market stall make.

 

Otherwise I am all for a Wholesaler / Manufacturer keeping the level playing field.

 

Yes, there used to be a small model shop with a permanent premises in Haverfordwest Market Hall but he found the manufacturers wouldn't sell to him because of his address.

[RJS1977]

16 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Because they want permanence for and from retailers and not someone with boxes piled up in a spare bedroom flogging at bottom dollar on the internet with less protection for consumers.

 

Why do you want them to do it differently?

 

I guess the problem with only selling to businesses with physical premises is that new model shops have to start somewhere.  Taking on a shop premises and buying enough stock to fill it is quite a financial gamble, and I can understand someone wanting to get a toe in the water by trading from home first. Trouble is of course it's impossible to tell the difference between people doing that and the "wide boys" and of course manufacturers supplying the 'sell from home over the internet' businesses who have fewer overheads, undermines the remaining model shops.

[pirouets]

Isn't the thing with any venture, you need the right products to start with, so just how many retailers who have premises now did actually start in their garage. I keep forgetting that the Hampshire Models outlet in Basingstoke is there and has been for a year or so and its half the distance that Alton. But rather than a high street premise has gone for the outlet approach in an industrial unit which I suspect keeps the ongoing costs of premise far lower. However they arrived at the point of getting a physical store, they have the full range of stock now.

 

As what we buy is a bit more specialist and less likely to be an impulse buy (ignore the N Gauge Terrier I have even though I model OO and BR Blue - it was a moment I had), we seek out the shop whether that be an online retailer or physical store, but for me the advantage of the store is seeing all the other bits n bobs I didn't even know to search or realise I needed.] I think that will always be there and I was more than happy to wait until Alton Model re-opened to get some pipe wagons.

 

I also think Hayfield's point above is close to the mark and whilst some model shops may close due to the current challenges, are they the ones that would have gone anyway in the changing world of online v physical? 

[mdvle]

17 hours ago, Ravenser said:

As this thread has resurfaced , we now have a case of a speculative look into the future post where we know what actually happened. 

 

We know what has so far happened - this isn't over yet.

 

17 hours ago, Ravenser said:

All the above were allowed to reopen from 4th July. Some may never reopen, having ceased to be viable, but basically they are back, as early as could be hoped. Model shops have been permitted to open since 15th June

 

Yes, they have opened - but for most with some variation on restrictions on capacity which means a greatly reduced earning potential.

 

But the bigger question is can they stay open - note that Texas allowed bars to open to 50% capacity but has now been forced to close them again.  Melbourne has re-entered lockdown after a new outbreak of Covid.

 

There is a great deal of effort by a variety of people trying to convince us that this is all over now and that we can simply return to normal when that is unclear at this point.

[Phil Parker]

5 minutes ago, mdvle said:

Yes, they have opened - but for most with some variation on restrictions on capacity which means a greatly reduced earning potential.

 

Or maybe the time-wasters are just going to find themselves booted out a lot quicker than in the past. My local shop has a few who will block the entrance for long periods talking at the owner and not buying anything. Every shop I've spoken to in the past, especially the much missed IA in Brum, had a high percentage of people who simply hung around soiling the stock and refusing to buy anything.

 

 

[Legend]

8 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

The other problem with shops, for me anyway, is not having one anywhere near ! Living 30 minutes train journey from Glasgow, my closest shops are Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh and C&M in Carlisle, both excellent shops but around another 60 minutes away from Glasgow Central. Hence visits are nowhere near as frequent as I would like, so with no shows just now, and no local shops, it is usually the internet for my purchases.

 

 

I'm the same Caradoc , living in Erskine . There is a small shop in Cambuslang , but he doesn't carry much stock . As a result I've been using Derails and Rails of Sheffield recently . Great service from both . At least there someones local shops  !

[Gwiwer]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or maybe the time-wasters are just going to find themselves booted out a lot quicker than in the past. My local shop has a few who will block the entrance for long periods talking at the owner and not buying anything. Every shop I've spoken to in the past, especially the much missed IA in Brum, had a high percentage of people who simply hung around soiling the stock and refusing to buy anything.

 

 

A valid point.  

 

I am reminded of the one-time proprietor of The Railfan Shop in Melbourne, Australia who may be known to others here.  He could be somewhat abrasive at the best of times but woe betide he ever caught you picking up a book or magazine from the shelf to flick through - browse as we often call it - perhaps to decide if it was the one you wanted.  He would be over your shoulder in seconds, seize the item and thrust it back on the shelf with the stern admonishment that "This is a shop not a library - if you want to read it you buy it".  

 

His sales were never that good.  No-one wondered why   

[Legend]

I can see the capacity thing being an issue in bars and restaurants .  They are usually full and so capacity restrictions are real to them . But model shops are different .  Maybe they only have one or two customers in at any time , so hopefully they will fair better.  It will be tricky though because part of the experience of going to a model shop is being able to browse , see new stock etc . Invariably you buy something but maybe not exactly what you went in for . You may also have travelled a considerable distance for the experience eg Glasgow to Edinburgh per above , so you want to be treated well when you get there  and not shoed out the place or treated as some sort of inconvenience , just because you can't make up your mind , or perhaps they don't have the model you intended to buy.

 

That said , of course you should be cognisant of other people .

[Guest Half-full]

30 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

I'm the same Caradoc , living in Erskine . There is a small shop in Cambuslang , but he doesn't carry much stock . As a result I've been using Derails and Rails of Sheffield recently . Great service from both . At least there someones local shops  !

Dont forget Wildcat models in Partick!  Great shop, and a very helpful owner

[Legend]

2 hours ago, Half-full said:

Dont forget Wildcat models in Partick!  Great shop, and a very helpful owner

Very very small and limited model railways . I mean the shop is so small you could probably only get one or two in before social distancing 

[Guest Half-full]

39 minutes ago, Legend said:

Very very small and limited model railways . I mean the shop is so small you could probably only get one or two in before social distancing 

There are plenty of shops like that though, small and limited model railway stock, plenty of paints, glues, plastic sheet though!  My first visit to the shop a couple of years ago was to see what railway stock they had, ended up spending over £70 on various paints and other modelling sundries we so often forget about.

 

I see a model shop as just that, not just a shop that sells model railways.  Been in plenty of model railway shops where I've walked out empty handed, not even a tin or paint or a paintbrush!

 

[Georgeconna]

On 08/07/2020 at 18:31, Joseph_Pestell said:

E-mail is not that reliable. It may be that your server does not "talk" to theirs.

 

Give them a call and check they have received the e-mail.

 

I did not know that IoM stock was available in G. Very tempting.

 

They have a contact us page. I completed the details and expected a Response, I Could not order it on line from them, No shipping options pops up hence I contacted them via their website.  Same for Track Shack, they dont post to Ireland. Flipping nuts in this day and age.

 

I got my father a Hornby rocket in the end from my Local shop.

 

Heres a link to the IOM stuff. http://kentgardenrailways.com/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=isle of

 

Anyhow thats  in the past now.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

6 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

 

They have a contact us page. 

 

 

There's your problem. Forms embedded in websites are hopelessly unreliable. I always try to find an e-mail address on the website and use that instead.

 

I have not counted but I would reckon that I have about a 10% failure rate when using embedded forms. I am not techy enough to understand what it is that the programmers are doing wrong that makes their form not work with my computer/server or whatever.

[JeremyC]

My sons use a model shop (it doesn't sell model railways, but its good for modelling sundries) whose lease fell due for renewal during the lock down and the new terms offered involved a considerable rise in what they would be paying. In this particular case the owner is planning to close the the shop and move to online business only at least until he can find more affordable premises. 

[Andy Hayter]

Sadly I think we are going to see quite a bit of this as landlords try and recoup losses elsewhere - and not just relating to model (railway) shops.  I think it will take some time and some bad experiences before landlords realise that the new world means they are likely to have to reduce rents to keep an income, not increase them.  

 

INTU should be a warning to all landlords.

[darrel]

On 09/07/2020 at 16:32, Half-full said:

Dont forget Wildcat models in Partick!  Great shop, and a very helpful owner

There is also Scotts models in st Margaret Street only sells military model kits, but handy for humbrol and reval paints glues and modeling tools. Friendly staff too.

[Ian_M]

I'm one of those guys selling on eBay from my spare room (recently started). I aspire to get a small shop unit in the next couple of years so this thread has been a fascinating read!

[hayfield]

54 minutes ago, ukinfidel said:

I'm one of those guys selling on eBay from my spare room (recently started). I aspire to get a small shop unit in the next couple of years so this thread has been a fascinating read!

 

It is said Richard Branson started selling from a public telephone. And oak trees grow from small acorns. 

 

Many small model railway businesses work from home. 

 

Good luck

 

[Coppercap]

On 09/07/2020 at 08:48, wasabi said:

For me, going to a model shop is something that I might do on holiday, but then I really need a wife-minding service to stop being nagged to make up my mind.  A couple of chairs and some coffee might do the trick.

Go for a holiday in the Forest of Dean/Herefordshire area - a visit to Derails in Coleford will have that sorted - adjacent cafe (family business I believe) all under the same roof, where you can park the Missus while you make your purchases/chat to the staff in Derails. Easy, cheap parking just yards away, and a small railway museum by the car park (check opening times...). I can recommend a visit!

Plus there's the Dean Forest Railway just a few miles away too!

Edited July 11, 2020 by Coppercap

[gc4946]

My nearest model shop of any description is about a mile away, but they only sell radio-controlled cars, model aircraft and ships.

However I've bought basic materials from there including enamels, glue and styrene sheets. 

People will have to be more creative in searching out and visiting non-railway modelling shops for those sorts of material. 

I haven't visited a model railway shop since just before lockdown but until the virus is more firmly under control and with restrictions on using public transport I'll have to accept I cannot browse or rummage through used boxes as much as I used to enjoy and will have to justify my visits by committing to buy stuff whilst there.

I've bought online and those businesses which offer real-time stock availability will get my hard-earned cash. 

[Guest Half-full]

On 11/07/2020 at 05:32, darrel said:

There is also Scotts models in st Margaret Street only sells military model kits, but handy for humbrol and reval paints glues and modeling tools. Friendly staff too.

Great wee shop too, doesnt have a lot of stock of things, but he'll get in anything you want.

 

He's a ex-member of Jamieson's Models staff, miss that shop!!