Will we lose shops and how badly?

[Happy Hippo]

Our local model shop, Modelscape, is closing.

 

Ian Moreton has decided that the threat that C-19 poses to the health and well being of both his wife and himself is just too much.

 

 

[ruggedpeak]

On 09/07/2020 at 08:48, wasabi said:

 

Same where I live in East London.  We did have the Engine Shed in Leytonstone but that closed some time ago for reasons that have never been clear, and the nearest shop now seems to be Invicta in Sidcup.  A friend of mine who lives down the road goes there occasionally but it really needs much of the day put aside for the trip, although at least he can pick up his papers whilst there.

 

For me, going to a model shop is something that I might do on holiday, but then I really need a wife-minding service to stop being nagged to make up my mind.  A couple of chairs and some coffee might do the trick.

If you are East London then there is Roneo Models https://www.facebook.com/Roneo-Models-1752368765006984/?_fb_noscript=1  Never been there but was on a pre-COVID train trip list to visit. Essex is blessed with a number of model shops, despite losing Mankim Models in Colchester.

 

Can continue along the A12 from East London to Chelmsford and John Dutfields. Was in there Saturday to pick up paints I'd ordered, they have a one way system, traffic light on the front door and screen at the till. Ken & Heather still operating. Got chatting and Ken pointed out the new MagNEM magnetic couplings ((https://www.glrailways.co.uk/  ) they have in stock. Like Hunt couplings but don't have the polarity issues, so bought a set to try alongside the Hunts I've got. There's a retail park nearby and the town centre close by for those who may not want to shop for models.

 

Or venture slightly further along the A130 to SAT Model Rail in Battlesbridge which is set in a old mill/warehouse that is now an antiques centre by the river, and there is a pub opposite. If the weather is nice ideal for a walk. SAT haven't got the largest shop but an awful lot of stock crammed into it. I never come away empty handed. And they are open Sunday as weekends are the busiest time for the antiques centre.

 

For a train ride, possibly post-COVID, Scograil/Coastal DCC/Orwell are all at the Ipswich Model Railway Centre. It is a short walk from Derby Road station, get the GEML to Ipswich and the change to what used to be a 153 or 156 to Felixstowe. Afterwards carry onto the seaside or watch the Freightliner trains coming down the branch!

 

Hopefully a day out can be built around some of these as COVID eases.

Edited July 12, 2020 by ruggedpeak

[wasabi]

Thanks for that, Tony.  In the 80s I used to get to Romford from time to time as the Royal Mail parcels office was there and they mostly tried to deliver when we were at work.  i managed to get in pub visits as well and its likely that I've been to the one at Roneo Corner but I don't recall a model shop - admittedly that was some years ago.  I do make things harder for myself by modelling in N but a model shop is still useful for supplies and although individual purchases might not be large they add up over time.

 

[IPW]

 

[Legend]

On ‎11‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 05:32, darrel said:

There is also Scotts models in st Margaret Street only sells military model kits, but handy for humbrol and reval paints glues and modeling tools. Friendly staff too.

 

Yes hes very good . He jokes he has more paint than B&Q

[Crantock]

Well its nearly 4 months in.  We still can't see a way out.  But COVID is really just accelerating the collapse of the model shop.  There are other threads for shops remembered but stepping back the number that have closed within my range (from Birmingham) is massive. 

 

Of those that remain I struggle to see those that are described as an "Alladin's Cave" surviving.  The cramped messes of yesteryear are history.  There will be two clear changes. 

• Things must be clearly displayed so they can be found.  Rummage boxes are obsolete. 
• Shoppers will change to "Ask" rather than "look".  Quick in, quick out.

Of the existing shops in my area I can see those like Footplate in Kidderminster & Cheltenham Model Centre surviving.  However, not all is doom and the failure of many other high street retailers must open locations and reduce rents.  Perhaps though the model needs to move closer to the European one where pricey products are displayed in quality shops.  There can few other businesses where so little attention is given to display presentation for such a high price range item.  I suspect manufacturers would welcome that.

 

[AY Mod]

27 minutes ago, Crantock said:

Of the existing shops in my area I can see those like Footplate in Kidderminster & Cheltenham Model Centre surviving.

 

Bring Stafford into your catchment area too and Topp Trains are thriving now the doors are open again.

[LBRJ]

Reading Crantock's post, and not directly related to Covid 19 matters, made me think how much Rails of Sheffield have  recently done to up the presentation of the hobby.

 

Their new showroom is almost a cool place to go to - I did say almost

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Crantock said:

 

 

Of those that remain I struggle to see those that are described as an "Alladin's Cave" surviving.  The cramped messes of yesteryear are history.  There will be two clear changes. 

• Things must be clearly displayed so they can be found.  Rummage boxes are obsolete. 
• Shoppers will change to "Ask" rather than "look".  Quick in, quick out.

 

 

 

Not been in Primark since reopening then?      Rummaging and cramped messes are still very much in vogue.

 

Thankfully I was only in the lesser populated men's department as I had to buy a pair of jeans* and was passing. But the other departments were the usual bunfight with clothes strewn everywhere.

 

 

*I get them from there as they are a good fit and cheap. Not many places sell skinny jeans.

 

 

Jason

[ianmacc]

13 hours ago, Crantock said:

 

• Things must be clearly displayed so they can be found.  Rummage boxes are obsolete. 
• Shoppers will change to "Ask" rather than "look".  Quick in, quick out.

And a much poorer experience as a result. 

[ruggedpeak]

15 hours ago, Crantock said:

Well its nearly 4 months in.  We still can't see a way out.  But COVID is really just accelerating the collapse of the model shop.  There are other threads for shops remembered but stepping back the number that have closed within my range (from Birmingham) is massive. 

 

Of those that remain I struggle to see those that are described as an "Alladin's Cave" surviving.  The cramped messes of yesteryear are history.  There will be two clear changes. 

• Things must be clearly displayed so they can be found.  Rummage boxes are obsolete. 
• Shoppers will change to "Ask" rather than "look".  Quick in, quick out.

Of the existing shops in my area I can see those like Footplate in Kidderminster & Cheltenham Model Centre surviving.  However, not all is doom and the failure of many other high street retailers must open locations and reduce rents.  Perhaps though the model needs to move closer to the European one where pricey products are displayed in quality shops.  There can few other businesses where so little attention is given to display presentation for such a high price range item.  I suspect manufacturers would welcome that.

 

I suspect/hope that many of the Aladdin's Caves will survive as they are the way they are due to low overheads for the properties in less than primary locations. My local Aladdin's Cave is COVID compliant and seems to be trading OK and well away from any established retail pitch.

 

What may not be helping retailers is the growth of direct selling manufacturers and the increasing amount and/or share of modelling spend that bypasses retailers altogether on top of reducing margins, poorer trade terms from the big players, increased overheads such as rates etc.

 

Given the squealing over Chinese led price increases, who is going to pay Euro-style prices for models (with hefty margins being provided by manufacturers as a result???) and what retailers can afford the rent and rates on "quality shops" compared to other retail players? Despite COVID I don't foresee any fundamental change in the retail issues in the short to medium term.

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

I suspect/hope that many of the Aladdin's Caves will survive as they are the way they are due to low overheads for the properties in less than primary locations. My local Aladdin's Cave is COVID compliant and seems to be trading OK and well away from any established retail pitch.

 

What may not be helping retailers is the growth of direct selling manufacturers and the increasing amount and/or share of modelling spend that bypasses retailers altogether on top of reducing margins, poorer trade terms from the big players, increased overheads such as rates etc.

 

Given the squealing over Chinese led price increases, who is going to pay Euro-style prices for models (with hefty margins being provided by manufacturers as a result???) and what retailers can afford the rent and rates on "quality shops" compared to other retail players? Despite COVID I don't foresee any fundamental change in the retail issues in the short to medium term.

 

 

On the other hand, firstly the model railway trade service a customer base which in the main has both time and or disposable cash.

 

Good local business are reaping the rewards that many (especially older folk) do not want to go to busy high street shops. But on the other hand prefer not to shop online

 

The retail trade is going through quite a lot of pain, the government is realizing business rates need reforming. Landlords are now finding out the hard way their investments have to have affordable competitive rents to attract and retain tenants  

 

In the end well run businesses that adapt will survive and prosper

[Mike Bellamy]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 Not many places sell skinny jeans.

 

 

Risking a telling off for going off topic . . . . I would suggest that there aren't too many here who can still wear skinny jeans - I know I can't!!

[Butler Henderson]

6 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

What may not be helping retailers is the growth of direct selling manufacturers and the increasing amount and/or share of modelling spend that bypasses retailers altogether on top of reducing margins, poorer trade terms from the big players, increased overheads such as rates etc.

Increasing spend by modellers bypassing retail shops is IME down to knowing I can source a particular item rather than a fruitless visit taking place.

[ianmacc]

One minor casualty of corona virus is the loss of the casual model railway and toy trader in York antiques centre. They shut both their units and have been replaced with more tourist tat. I only bought a few items in three years but it’s another outlet gone. It had a huge passing footfall too. 
 

As an aside it was the producer of those exquisite Christmas model railway dioramas I posted last Christmas here. 

[Guest Half-full]

On 16/07/2020 at 12:20, Graham1960 said:

I only think many will survive if they increase or even have a long term presence on a their own website. I think there's still lots of scope of used items to be sold at competitive prices, but many sites concentrate on selling new expensive models. Some sellers use E-Bay, but either you have to risk waiting for the sale to end, or buy overpriced buy it now items. Sometimes with crap postal services or prices. You can run this type of enterprise from a much cheaper unit, rather than an expensive shop. Even move to areas that can offer cheaper rates.

I do feel sorry for any shop that relies on the passing trade of customers and no on-line business. For as long as the virus is a round, people will not want to travel on public transport from either fear, or the inconvenience of the mask. And adding the mask to go around a shop and ask people in the shop something is not the best way to run a business. Except into the ground.

The longer it goes on I can see a lot more people all of a sudden being asthmatic, but never needing medication for it.

I'm OK since I have dust mite allergy and for me that will exclude me from wearing a mask. Not that any shop will be bothered about that. I rarely used them before the crisis!      

I traveled by train into Glasgow City Centre this morning, 6 car unit, standing room only, all seats filled despite social distancing, I'd say 90% of people wearing a mask, and in the carriage I was in, I'd have said the majority of people were 50+.  My train home was pretty full too, people laden with shopping bags.

 

Its certainly not stopping people here.

[Ouroborus]

On 23/04/2020 at 19:04, stewartingram said:

He's been listening to Trump again.

 

On 23/04/2020 at 18:43, 'CHARD said:

 

Really?  Unless I've missed something, that doesn't reflect what was mentioned by the Oxford team who started injecting the human guinea pigs this afternoon.

I think the consensus that you told me was 2 years before a vaccine was ready?

Interesting you mention the Oxford team.  I'm part of the trial, officially told to be guarded about who i tell this to.  Given Hancock is saying the roll out of the vaccine can begin from December,  i guess the cat is out of the bag now.   End of year deployment has been suspected for some time.  As is the prioritisation of groups.  FWIW I'm group2, so expecting to be done in the first wave and do others in the same wave.  Evenings and weekends, a variety of healthcare workers providing them.  Not just GP's.    Unlikely to just be a single shot, booster seems inevitable with Oxford.

Stewart, I'll happily do yours.  Would you like an injection or prefer it served on humble pie?

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

 

I think the consensus that you told me was 2 years before a vaccine was ready?

Interesting you mention the Oxford team.  I'm part of the trial, officially told to be guarded about who i tell this to.  Given Hancock is saying the roll out of the vaccine can begin from December,  i guess the cat is out of the bag now.   End of year deployment has been suspected for some time.  As is the prioritisation of groups.  FWIW I'm group2, so expecting to be done in the first wave and do others in the same wave.  Evenings and weekends, a variety of healthcare workers providing them.  Not just GP's.    Unlikely to just be a single shot, booster seems inevitable with Oxford.

Stewart, I'll happily do yours.  Would you like an injection or prefer it served on humble pie?

I think you just published it online, to any of the 7billion people on the planet who chose to look.
Only the dead and the unborn cannot potentially read this.

Edited November 10, 2020 by adb968008

[andyman7]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I think you just published it online, to any of the 7billion people on the planet who chose to look.
Only the dead and the unborn cannot potentially read this.

I'm impressed that RMWeb is read by 7 billion people. A 'bigly' amount indeed 

[adb968008]

12 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

I'm impressed that RMWeb is read by 7 billion people. A 'bigly' amount indeed 

I didnt say “is”, but theres no barriers to prevent them.

Rmweb is cutting edge stuff.. sharpest knives Ive seen are on this forum, celebrity chefs sharpen then here.

In a pricing discussion ive even seen people cut diamonds, why wouldnt people want to see that.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by adb968008

[Ouroborus]

50 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I think you just published it online, to any of the 7billion people on the planet who chose to look.
Only the dead and the unborn cannot potentially read this.

 

We were told to be guarded, not an absolute ban.  And nothing i've told you today isn't in the public domain now.   Personally, I suspect the AstraZeneca vaccine will be the one most commonly used - its far more easy to deploy, but its three weeks behind Pfizer.

[sidmouth]

Like everything 2020 has thrown at us Model Shops have had to adapt to survive . Increasing their audience through social media, online selling to make up for the loss of footfall . The big loss will be the loss of show sales although how much that will translate into "normal" volumes we will see . the second big influence is us as a customer continuing to spend in our favourite/local shops . I've done far more model railway stuff this year than I have for probably 35 years . As a result I've spent more and I'm grateful to Tony's Trains of Rugby for getting stuff for me from my wish list 

[hayfield]

Sadly shops and shopping has been changing ever since I was a child, the road I was born in and lived in for most of my first 35 years whilst only having 90 odd houses had a shop half way down the road and two at one end. All closed !! the next roadhad 2 pubs and 6 shops. One pub survives, a grocers is an antique shop, a sweet shop is now a fishing tackle shop and the Co-oP is a hair dressers,

 

In these two roads we have lost 5 food shops including a Co-oP, a tobacconist/sweet shop, a coal merchants, wool shop and 2 petrol stations and one car dealer. What's left is an antique shop, hair dressers and a fishing tackle shop. Even before Covid shopping habits had been changing quickly. John Lewis were going to reduce floor space and increase online activity. I guess similar companies were planning similar changes. We have been loosing household names for years, remember Mac Fisheries. Dixons. When I was a kid there were no garden centers or mobile phone shops, certainly no charity shops (most of which now are more commercial than voluntary.

 

My wife has now done most of our Christmas shopping online, so this year I think many retailers may have meager pickings and more than previously will not reopen after Christmas. But when one door closes another opens, perhaps not in the way we imagine but in a way many will want to use. I will still go to my local model shop and will try and support them more next year, as I will try and support local shops and restaurants/gastro pubs.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by hayfield

[D9020 Nimbus]

Dixon’s hasn't really disappeared — just renamed Curry’s/PC World (both companies that Dixon’s took over).

[hayfield]

59 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Dixon’s hasn't really disappeared — just renamed Curry’s/PC World (both companies that Dixon’s took over).

 

Dixons took over Curries but organically grew into computers and white goods

 

When I first started with Dixons it was a photographic retailer, which started to sell tv's radios and other audio equipment, very quickly they were into Colour TV and HiFi systems. They took over a Dutch retailer and also a chemist chain called Westons, where I spent a pleasant 18 months on secondment. Which came to an end suddenly when the personnel director ( Stan Fraisor) finally remembered where he had sent me. I left the company after 10+ years thankfully well before they got into computers 

 

They were a great company then, Met the owners many times ( Charles and Sir Stanley) Worked for a time and played football with the youngest son stephen, also met the other son Richard.

I learnt lots from the business, which deservedly grew into the size of company it now is. Think the holding company is still Dixons

 

My First Manager and assistant manager Dave and Ken were avid P4 railway modellers, I think Dave was modelling Penzance (or some other Cornish terminus ) It was  the Ealing Broadway shop

[Roy Langridge]

On 11/11/2020 at 16:20, D9020 Nimbus said:

Dixon’s hasn't really disappeared — just renamed Curry’s/PC World (both companies that Dixon’s took over).

 

Plenty of Dixons at airports still.

 

Well, strictly there are lots of Dixons Travel which is owned by Dixons Retail who also own Currys PC World, Carphone Warehouse, TalkTalk and a whole host of other companies.

Roy