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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Hi All, 

 

 

Another kinda lock-down micro layout project hoping to use it to actually kick start some more serious and ambitious projects but always struggle to do / achieve anything so it's a start. Using the Iain Rice plan (shown below) and a ScaleModelScenery BB017 baseboard - which almost match size-wise (scenic area anyway).

 

IMG_8523.jpg.95968245316ea5d750504da7cc50d63b.jpg

 

 

 

I started with a couple of building mock ups mainly Scalescene as I had their website and sizes to hand... As you can see any full buildings will need to be rather small, I suspect when Iain wrote "Warehouse" he means Garden Shed!! 

 

 

IMG_8525.JPG.1081dfb7f102898349e30a3ad45b7924.JPG

 

 

 

Also I've got a mostly built Dapol dockside crane which needs a good home kindly given away by @Rowsley17D, I've got a @Giles cobble sett embossing tool and two JS Models kits on order from @jrb 

 

So that's kinda the plan, geographically unknown so-far, 1960s-70s-ish quay side location with a warehouse, dockside crane and some industrial / private owner shunters for reasons I've not explained (or decided upon yet)... (Rule 1 perhaps?)

 

Any thoughts, input, feedback and suggestions much appreciated!

 

Ralf

 

IMG_8529.JPG.318ac82db99784ac5079695f42673ffa.JPG

 

 

IMG_8530.JPG.58480fb46bab84f375a9b41015696e5b.JPG

 

 

IMG_8524.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Ralf
Duplicate images! Image shapes and spacing problems!
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Hi Ralf, like the track layout, I spent ages working on a design with a run round  and found the best for me was a siding each way from the loop. I'm running short goods so not a problem for me either. The picture if it works may show where I am.  Got to say I do like a dock scene.

20200411_171352.jpg

Edited by bazzer42
Missing text
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  • RMweb Gold

It's good to see that crane being used, I hate to think how much water has gone under the bridge since I first acquired it. A long ago Christmas present, I think.

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  • RMweb Gold

So, there's been progress! The ambition is to go hand built track using PCB and Templot with Iain Rice's book (PCB Track) and @hayfield thread as help / guidance. 

 

 

 

Especially as all of the track will be inlaid with either tarmac or cobbles this seems an ideal introduction to producing PCB track work without worrying about the cosmetics lower down in the ground... I've gone to a Vee angle of 1:3 as discussed here: 

 

 

I have to admit the original move towards PCB was that Peco Code 75 seems in very short supply out there and hey why not took over and I've now got the bit between my teeth and I think I have everything I need from Marcway for the build... We shall see! 

 

Cheers
Ralf

 

IMG_8569.jpg.f01d0215cc97bbfa441fdfbfc2575cf4.jpg

IMG_8572.JPG.f70a9090edf7aac9447c8dc1806fb603.JPGIMG_8573.JPG.972b8884e0b1796d152e7016594c2587.JPG

 

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Crikey that's an old one, just about to build a couple more copperclad turnouts, the first for years mainly due to the cost of copperclad strip these days.

 

There are at least two benefits of building your own track especially with the aid of that wonderful program Templot. An now thanks to some brilliant programming its so easy to use

 

Firstly it looks so much better than ready to run trackwork with its geometric limitations

 

Secondly its so much more rewarding building something yourself

 

Good luck and enjoy yourself

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"rather small, I suspect when Iain wrote "Warehouse" he means Garden Shed!! "

 

As with many illustrations the track was drawn and then the buildings fitted to match the thought onto paper process; so it is not unknown or uncommon a close look at some designs shows curve to straight interfaces that can't be laid from commercial or hand-laid stock as the straight springs from the curve at an angle and in a space that is impossible to create a workable transition curve.

 

I have done similar to myself with my 1:19th garden line. The station foundation areas are 9-18' x 2' or 3' deep, made of 900x600x50 contract paving slabs laid on concrete lintels, dimensions that sound huge until you move into the garden.

 

(NOTE: to those think in the same vein contract slabs are anything but flat and most are dished to the centre of the slab in both planes and on both large faces. They are also VERY heavy so proper foundations will be required...I'll let you guess how I found out.)

 

Once the gangers arrived and put in the track with a run round loop head shunt. Suddenly the platform is transformed to a narrow strip of edging. Slightly more space was released by using left and right hand points for the run-round and adding a few small sections of straight giving enough spacing to allow the previously purchased platform to 'sit' as an island rather than needing bisecting  to make a ledge.

 

We all live and learn that less can in many cases be more, the over provision of buildings is a well known problem yet we all fall into the same trap. With either too much track or too many structures. Whilst a sparse layout seems a bit under developed some layouts look like that train-set track plan copied straight from the book.

Edited by Sturminster_Newton
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I have tried to overlay standard railway and turnout designs to a couple of Iain's designs and the thing to remember is they are sketches which need to be turned into a working plan, certainly track wise with a few alterations the plan can be copied,

 

Looking at the one you are using it seems to be more of a back water with an extensive track plan and as you say the warehouse is more of a fisherman's store, certainly the crane you have is far more industrial than the one in Iain's drawing and perhaps the buildings a bit large for a small village harbour.

 

Please where was this plan published 

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1 hour ago, hayfield said:

I have tried to overlay standard railway and turnout designs to a couple of Iain's designs and the thing to remember is they are sketches which need to be turned into a working plan, certainly track wise with a few alterations the plan can be copied,

 

Hi John,

 

I agree. Unlike CJF plans, I have found that Iain's designs can usually be converted into proper track plans. Like this:

 

2_311850_080000000.jpg
(used with permission)

 

Work in progress in Templot. I like to convert a background picture shape to a low-contrast negative for easier working on. There are functions to do that in Templot:

 

2_010737_290000000.png

 

The double-slip looked unlikely to fit, but in practice with a bit of careful alignment of the curves, it does.

 

The view on the Templot sketchboard:


2_010737_290000001.png

 

And the final templates:

 

2_010737_300000002.png

 

(I must get this finished. It's an excellent design for a traditional BLT layout in a smallish shed or bedroom.)

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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  • RMweb Gold
On 16/04/2020 at 09:56, Sturminster_Newton said:

We all live and learn that less can in many cases be more, the over provision of buildings is a well known problem yet we all fall into the same trap. With either too much track or too many structures.

 

Yes I have been battling with myself to resist squeezing another siding in! Very wise words... 

 

 

23 hours ago, hayfield said:

Please where was this plan published 

 

Good question (scurries off to find it) - p110 in Creating Cameo Layouts. 

 

 

Process has begun albeit a couple of hours work has so far produced this with thanks also due to @Brian Harrap also for his Vee filing techniques.  

 

IMG_8610.JPG.a8896eb05f1f659c0f00f19fc0cc2e45.JPG

 

IMG_8614.JPG.731ce285a8ec5b293173cde4d88d334e.JPG

 

 

 

Here's where I've got too this lunchtime, slight drama when I realised I've not put a set in the rail, but soon-ish removed and remedied. Which wasn't as painful as I'd expected although much more to learn about soldering and flux before I could say it was quick, painless or easy! 

 

 

1652383503_IMG_8619copy.jpg.f9976a4cf9671aba271da02c5b7c19d8.jpg

 

Thanks all for the input. 


Ralf

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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Well here it is - finished excl some tidying up and splitting the point blades from the wing rails (you know where I mean!) - Workbench and books downstairs and I'm upstairs now...  *

 

Only 1 snag - I've added an extra sleeper to support the tips of the point blades, but the solder on the stock rails is interfering with their smooth operation... - ie they don't close, or when they do they've ridden up on the solder... (See pic 3 below) 

 

Is the answer to glue the supporting sleeper in place and avoid the problem? Which would solve my problem BUT surely there's a better answer for people needing to use more sleepers than me? 

 

Please excuse the dubious quality of the photographs, with the desk lamp out they're poor quality and grainy but with it on there's shadows, glint-y bits and all sorts... 

 

IMG_8624.jpg.cf14e3fc1f7798f52731c3dce137e30f.jpg

 

IMG_8625.jpg.6df98ab597239c836c2893ed1526a739.jpg

 

IMG_8626.JPG.80b214295379de4aabe907e60d60f9c8.JPG

 

 

Thanks

Ralf

* and a tie bar... 

 

 

 

Edited by Ralf
pic problems (user error!)
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  • RMweb Gold

Hi All, 

 

Been kinda quiet layout-wise although I've been working on my PCB Track and Soldering technique with loads of help and advice over in the Hand Built Track Section - see this thread: 

 

Otherwise not a lot to report but my Scalescenes Dock Side is almost done - except I think I'll probably need two prints / sets for the whole layout. I've made a slight mess of the edging on the section with the steps which themselves aren't 100% correct but think it'll be ok with another edging strip and the piles installed! 

 

Wondering if to mount it on the layout and raise the ground level considerably or to wrap around the front fascia of the baseboard - kinda like in the picture below but obviously not just lent against it! 

 

IMG_8722.JPG.7f7e9e9d8ef1d7d50aa8c1269c388835.JPG

 

Cheers
Ralf

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Some progress to the Quay Side, have added some 4mm card supports to the rear and 'painted' the baseboard front with a black permanent marker so the Quay Side hangs over the baseboard front. Cutting the recess for the steps etc took more brute force than I'd imagined - solid stuff this MDF! The piles have all been built but I'll glue them in when I actually attach the quayside front which will follow track laying... 

 

IMG_8787.JPG.6a2ca9d86eef4c55a32ed7245ddfa254.JPG

 

IMG_8788.JPG.d808583a130bea987440392b4a353e85.JPG

 

IMG_8786.JPG.c11224bfac4ba1e1e425bef5d06b3434.JPG

 

 

Meanwhile I've started construction on the JS Models Mill (JSM02S) as you can see... 

 

IMG_8830.JPG.3ff05bb0f93423dc754e56c59fb71ed0.JPG

 

IMG_8831.JPG.25d44f112f6e4e5bb57684014e47e735.JPG

 

That's all the news to report! 

 

Ralf

Edited by Ralf
Pic swap!
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  • RMweb Gold

Well the mill is coming on... No idea how / where it's going on the layout but want it to it's such a magnificent building! 

 

Building outer layers attached, window frames painted and now glazed... Printed some cut lines on some OHP transparency, cut em out, glued them on with Glue n Glaze as Jonathon recommends. They're not sat under a SMS 400mm fiddle stick baseboard with some weights added so ensure they stick etc... 

 

IMG_8860.JPG.6f1e4207c673ae3c73714b5fe8ac2213.JPG

 

IMG_8862.JPG.6539c5d51e488bf193c14a3bb4c71d3f.JPG

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That's a belting looking mill/warehouse - must add to my "to buy" list! 

 

Scalescenes dock walls are really effective, aren't they?  I thought I'd have to cut out my baseboard too, in order to recess the steps, but instead angled the wall out from the baseboard to create a wider quay over the water area.  Of course, that's not an option when your quayside wall is the edge of the baseboard!  (Does save you having to model the water, though!)

 

Watching further developments with interest.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Well I seem to have changed the plan - again! I decided I didn't like the kinda S bend affair in the run round loop so it's gone so currently I've revised it as shown but I'm tempted with the extra siding but not sure why it's there or if I can / should have a slither of loading dock next to the mill... I think I liked the idea of having the mill and the crane at the same end as a factory / private complex but then the logistics of fencing it off or having road vehicles involved became confusing! 

 

It's all very convoluted and cramped and doesn't feel natural as a scene to me BUT I suppose it never will in this kind of space.... Oh decisions decisions, I really wish I could commit myself to it...

 

 

NEW LAYOUT PLAN: 

IMG_8990.jpg.d5b7e96dc43f5aac000caebda2d1578e.jpg

 

OLD PLAN

IMG_8569.jpg

 

 

Any thoughts would be welcomed with very open arms! Maybe I should dump the loop and go inglenook? 


Ralf

 

Edited by Ralf
Inglenook mention!
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Ralph

 

Your thread has prompted me into redesigning a small inglenook layout I had planned in P4 gauge, I had a quick doodle which I then transposed into full size mockup with card I had. Length was not too much on an issue. Certainly the turnouts and crossings once turned into working plans needed more space. Also the width had to be increased from 15" to 18".  As it happens the plan would never occur in real life, its far too small and elaborate, but hopefully may make an interesting model

 

Lets face it many small branch line stations had very little service, yet at shows most layouts have intensive workings to keep the public interested  

 

With the layout you are proposing is it a shunting puzzle ? or is it to be a scenic plank to show off stock?, is there to be 1, 2 or 3 exits?. Or perhaps have exits on both ends and fill the centre up with turnouts and crossings . In Watford we had a brewery for years, I never knew at one time it had its own railway network and it was not a massive brewery

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12 hours ago, Ralf said:

NEW LAYOUT PLAN: 

IMG_8990.jpg.d5b7e96dc43f5aac000caebda2d1578e.jpg

 

 

Any thoughts would be welcomed with very open arms! Maybe I should dump the loop and go inglenook? 


Ralf

 

Hi Ralf, really like that warehouse / mill, and what you've been doing so far.
Inglenooks are fine, if you've never built one before, I say you should definitely build at least one.

But I think your basic design concept is really good here. I particularly like the overall concept of the one above.
Yes, layouts with a loop can look a tad "cramped", when you start off with a small space to work in
But don't forget, railways often were / are cramped - particularly industrial settings.....

I really like the added siding at the back here. I'm picturing a low-ish retaining wall, and a grassy, overgrown bank, leading down to the wall...
I think you could achieve this, mainly by bringing the "main" road (in the middle) a little further forward.
You have a lot of space between it, and the sidings at the front. I think if you brought the central road / track a tad further forward, so that it was roughly in the middle of the board,
you would end up with that rear siding looking less cramped. A grassy bank behind it would help lend a little more feeling of "space"

I think you could also shorten the run-round loop a little. Although not everyone would necessarily agree with me here,
I quite like the fact that you may need more running around, and shunting wagons "out of the way" to complete a manouvre. I think Ian Rice describes this as a "deliberate problem".
After all, the purpose of a small layout like this, is to do some shunting :) 

Re that warehouse. I don't know if you have sufficient materials in the kit, to make it appear deeper, front to back
But I'm sure you could do this even if you don't have the materials. A strategically placed tall chimney, and a tree next to it? Or another, smaller warehouse / factory and chimney?

Don't worry about changing your mind here & there. It's better to do that now, than to get half way through the build, and decide you don't like it.
I've a feeling you're not far off, and when you draw up the one that works best for you, I'm sure you'll know it :) 

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Posted (edited)

Hi

 

I like the width you have around the front tracks to allow room for unloading, especially if inset into the quayside surface.  Might I suggest that the back siding could serve a warehouse built over it, to keep the cramped, busy feel to the dockside.  I am sure you are aware of it already, but here's a photo of Ipswich docks (from the website Transports of Delight) to show what I mean.  

 

IMG_0877.JPG

 

 

IMG_0877.JPG

Edited by SteveyDee68
Annotated photo
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  • RMweb Gold
16 hours ago, hayfield said:

With the layout you are proposing is it a shunting puzzle ? or is it to be a scenic plank to show off stock?, is there to be 1, 2 or 3 exits?

 

Shunting Puzzle with probably 1 or 2 exits both on the left hand side, but that isn't fixed in stone. 

 

The brewery sounds interesting John, I shall need to look into that as it's a subject close to my heart! Relatively unusual for non huge breweries to have their own railways... 

 

 

4 hours ago, marc smith said:

I think you could achieve this, mainly by bringing the "main" road (in the middle) a little further forward.

 

Thanks for the helpful and encouraging words of wisdom Marc, I shall play with the layout etc tonight, but there's 1 stumbling block about shifting the middle road forward - see pic... As you can see the dockside road needs shifting in a bit to centre it below the crane which has a very wide footprint... 

 

IMG_1156.JPG.36d3243a0adc0b68448688d0948569e6.JPG

 

 

3 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Might I suggest that the back siding could serve a warehouse built over it, to keep the cramped, busy feel to the dockside

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I like the idea... Ideally need to try and find something easily kit buildable but equally maybe any old warehouse on stilts would fit the bill... Hmmm will need to think on that... 

 

Thanks 
Ralf

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Ralf said:

IMG_1156.JPG.36d3243a0adc0b68448688d0948569e6.JPG

 

Ralf,

 

It seems that the steps are forcing the crane over to the left too much - could you swap the two sections of dock wall so the steps are away from the area the crane runs in?

 

ralf01.jpg.4a92aa29854167aca05b7b658e16d87f.jpg

 

Jonathan

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1 hour ago, Ralf said:

 

Shunting Puzzle with probably 1 or 2 exits both on the left hand side, but that isn't fixed in stone. 

 

The brewery sounds interesting John, I shall need to look into that as it's a subject close to my heart! Relatively unusual for non huge breweries to have their own railways... 

 

 

 

 

Probably the better of the 3 maps as the railway had grown and peaked and was growing smaller as it did cross the High Street at one time

 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/104202190

 

The thread

 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Ralf said:

Thanks for the helpful and encouraging words of wisdom Marc, I shall play with the layout etc tonight, but there's 1 stumbling block about shifting the middle road forward - see pic... As you can see the dockside road needs shifting in a bit to centre it below the crane which has a very wide footprint... 

 

IMG_1156.JPG.36d3243a0adc0b68448688d0948569e6.JPG

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I like the idea... Ideally need to try and find something easily kit buildable but equally maybe any old warehouse on stilts would fit the bill... Hmmm will need to think on that... 

 

Hi again Ralf,

If that were my layout, and I definitely wanted to include that particular crane - I would be tempted to kit-bash it.
You could possibly site it further back, where the steps are, and the harbour wall is wider - as has been suggested,
But I would be looking at reducing the depth of that crane base. You could easily cut it just where the "legs" meet the body...
bring those legs / supports inwards a bit. I would even think about perhaps making some new ones, perhaps not so tapered
Or are there any other kits or models out there with an alternative? Worth a look perhaps?

I know it's a pain, modifying kitbuilt items after they have been completed, but it's doable, and in this case, I think it wouldn't be too tricky.
Plus, you end up with a unique component to your layout - something a bit different to more generic elements to your layout

EDIT: Looking at the photos again, I may be tempted to opt for re-building the crane base so that it's smaller anyway...
Or opt for a different, smaller crane - one which doesn't dominate the scene too much....
It would be a shame to have to modify your design, and perhaps lose some operating potential, just because a crane was too big, or didn't quite fit....
I realise you started out with this in the first instance - but perhaps you could build this layout with another crane.... then build that inglenook, including it! :) 

Edited by marc smith
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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Have been thinking about stuff, layout, buildings etc with the Scalescenes factory & warehouse kit which are planned for a matching dark red brick, then at the right hand end a gated entrance into a rail served factory which never sees any traffic... 

 

I'm currently quite happy with the plan but plan to trim the crane down a little to use it as the scenic break on the front exit of the layout. Although I think I may try as @marc smith suggests to narrow the gauge of it a little but the horizontal bits on the re-angled legs would no longer be horizontal, if that would trouble me I don't know but doubt it. The blue marker pen line is roughly where the landward crane rail will be, which will run almost the entire length of the layout.

 

As for exits I think the current plan is two on the left the dock siding being just that and the main exit just behind having access to a traverser / cassette fiddle yard. 

 

IMG_9069.jpg.de9c81e8d8803c828e823b26070dc338.jpg

IMG_9070.jpg.2bce3876a884894dfb198b8bba893cff.jpg

IMG_9072.JPG.1dd1aa390c6308d42981dafc1d2a1afe.JPG

IMG_9071.JPG.78cd5f7d9801f6df8d326d98733ffdec.JPG

 

 

Cheers

Ralf

Edited by Ralf
The mystery blue line! Not that anyone probably wondered but thought I'd mention it!
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Posted (edited)

Hi again Ralf,
My suggestion was not to change any angles of horizontal beams etc. But my approach would be something like I've tried to demonstrate in the picture below.
It's a fair bit of work - but it could work well, and save you a bit of space, while also keeping the crane more in proportion to its' surroundings...
I would always keep horizontal girders / supports horizontal...


But such parts of a model also can help the modeller who wants to adapt a kit, and that would always be my approach.

- Firstly, cut along the dotted red line.
- Then remove a section of the horizontal main support (the greyed out piece, between the blue lines)

- Move the rear legs forward, as per the Green Arrow
- Trim the angled inner surfaces of the support legs, in the manner of the pink shaded areas
  .... this is to help provide clearance for wagons to pass underneath

Of course, you could always make your own, or use something like the main supports from the Knightwing PM127 Steel girder crane?
Just to be clear, I would never have suggested angling those crane supports - the off-horizontal girders wouldn't have looked good...

All this said, the crane looks OK in the position on your latest version of the plan

 

Crane.jpg

Edited by marc smith
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