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6 hours ago, marc smith said:

Just to be clear, I would never have suggested angling those crane supports - the off-horizontal girders wouldn't have looked good...

 

Apologies Marc, I misunderstood entirely. I think I shall have a go at bashing the kit as you suggest, if it all goes horribly wrong I can acquire another kit / set of legs and go with the wider plan! 

 

If I can somehow secure all the legs together, perhaps in a jig of some sort to avoid them moving lengthwise it should be fairly easy to file the legs to match (he says oh so innocently!)... 

 

Thanks

Ralf

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, marc smith said:

Hi again Ralf,
My suggestion was not to change any angles of horizontal beams etc. But my approach would be something like I've tried to demonstrate in the picture below.
It's a fair bit of work - but it could work well, and save you a bit of space, while also keeping the crane more in proportion to its' surroundings...
I would always keep horizontal girders / supports horizontal...


But such parts of a model also can help the modeller who wants to adapt a kit, and that would always be my approach.

- Firstly, cut along the dotted red line.
- Then remove a section of the horizontal main support (the greyed out piece, between the blue lines)

- Move the rear legs forward, as per the Green Arrow
- Trim the angled inner surfaces of the support legs, in the manner of the pink shaded areas
  .... this is to help provide clearance for wagons to pass underneath

Of course, you could always make your own, or use something like the main supports from the Knightwing PM127 Steel girder crane?
Just to be clear, I would never have suggested angling those crane supports - the off-horizontal girders wouldn't have looked good...

All this said, the crane looks OK in the position on your latest version of the plan

 

Crane.jpg

My humble suggestion is to raise the low relief by a storey with a ground level  structure made of steel columns, and then extend the siding to run underneath the warehouse.  it could be a set piece or an extra exit/entry point for short trains of wagons

Edited by Pandora
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So, what's been going on... Well not a great deal, there was the revelation the base of the Dapol Crane and having looked at the build kit I didn't fancy totally wrecking it so a total of £5.20 was spent on a popular internet auction site for another kit... Which I have taken files and knives too - see below and as the legs on the section designed to have the track below are more vertical I don't think they need any shaving down which makes life easier than I expected. 

 

 

765883664_IMG_93262copy.jpg.dca99b3f2301ae7bdb126ca35a234b85.jpg

 

 

The original and narrow-ed versions, bit of filler required but otherwise it's better built than the original! 

 

IMG_9332_2.JPG.955002763cdedcf3a06e92909de00e3c.JPG

 

 

 

It looks tight width-wise...

 

1708657314_IMG_93282.JPG.91a91160140a0866172638e5779920bc.JPG

 

 

Having drawn round the above armed with my scale rules and this link which gives prototypical dimensions it looks like I've got away with it... https://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/2-track/02track3.htm

 

1738758028_IMG_93312.jpg.86890195cd78f14af184d0e72bff762c.jpg

 

 

So all in all I'm very chuffed with that, £5 and a hour spent and the gauge of the crane much reduced. Next up is working out exactly how much Scalescenes factory I'm building to work out where the rear siding needs to be before I start on track building...

 

Cheers

Ralf

 

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Posted (edited)

Ralf

 

That looks much better proportioned than the original crane base, if I might say!

 

One thing that is puzzling me: the legs straddling the railway line in the original photo have three panels across the horizontal girder, the legs you have narrowed have four panels.  Have you narrowed what previously were the side legs?  Do the side pieces (with the crane wheels) still fit?

 

Asking because I may have a go at doing exactly the same with my Dapol crane kit!  To which end, may I ask how many mm it is between the points shown on the doctored photo below, please?

 

Also, are you planning to make this a level luffing crane? Lots of discussion and a few examples, but nobody yet has detailed how to go about creating such a crane (which would be more appropriate than the Airfix/Dapol kit).

 

Steve S

IMG_0966.JPG

Edited by SteveyDee68
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Posted (edited)
On 15/05/2020 at 22:34, SteveyDee68 said:

One thing that is puzzling me: the legs straddling the railway line in the original photo have three panels across the horizontal girder, the legs you have narrowed have four panels.  Have you narrowed what previously were the side legs?  Do the side pieces (with the crane wheels) still fit?

 

Ok, I shall try and make this clear but I've confused myself trying to work out the answers! The crane has appeared in pictures in this thread both with the sides at the front / back and with the sides at the sides... I didn't realise the sides and front / backs weren't the same for quite a long time, not only are there a different number of panels but the sides are angled completely differently! 

 

The sides have 3 panels, the front / back pieces have 4 panels, it is these front / back panels I have narrowed.... So the longitudinal positions of the legs have not altered so the wheels and associated girders still fit as designed. 

 

I shall go and measure the crane and report back by editing this post (on my phone) the dimension you have asked about is 22mm... - Which is down from 30mm.

 

Rail Gauge as a result will be approx 62mm / 15ft 6in... 

 

 

On 15/05/2020 at 22:34, SteveyDee68 said:

Also, are you planning to make this a level luffing crane? Lots of discussion and a few examples, but nobody yet has detailed how to go about creating such a crane (which would be more appropriate than the Airfix/Dapol kit)

 

No I have no plans to create a luffing crane, that's certainly beyond the scope of this project! 

 

Thanks

Ralf

 

Edited by Ralf
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Ralf - thanks for the info, it is really useful as I do think you have improved the look of the base structure of the crane. Hope you didn't get too confused in the process - you are perfectly clear in your answer!

 

I really would like someone to come up with a kit or something for a level luffing crane!  I am sure it would be useful to so many modellers. Sadly I don't have the skill set or the necessary information for such a project. If only there were some 3D modelling genius out there who could rise to the challenge? (No names, no pack drill!)

 

Steve S

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On 03/05/2020 at 21:09, Ralf said:

Any thoughts would be welcomed with very open arms! Maybe I should dump the loop and go inglenook? 

 

Keep the loop if at all possible. It makes for far more interesting shunting which is what it is all about.

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Posted (edited)
On 06/05/2020 at 21:37, Ralf said:

As for exits I think the current plan is two on the left the dock siding being just that and the main exit just behind having access to a traverser / cassette fiddle yard. 

 

IMG_9070.jpg.2bce3876a884894dfb198b8bba893cff.jpg

 

IMG_9071.JPG.78cd5f7d9801f6df8d326d98733ffdec.JPG

 

Cheers

Ralf

 

Firstly, I was gently guided into fitting a loop into my own micro layout Woodhey Quay - and I am so glad that I was!  I was so fixated upon building an Inglenook layout (yes, everybody should build one*) that I couldn't see the advantage of the loop.  Now, I have a track layout that means I can shunt using a "waybill" system, a 3-2-2 Inglenook or even a 5-3-3 Inglenook (if I bend the rules slightly about parking wagons over points!).  The way to make the Inglenook plans work is to limit how many wagons are allowed "off stage" when using the fiddlesticks as a headshunt!

 

Looking at the above photo, might I suggest that instead of a tree as a viewblocker at the front right corner, that you instead use an overhead loading gantry running to a tower building on the quay edge?  That would keep the cramped, busy look and naturally "close" the scene at that end.  If you didn't use your wall and gate idea, maybe a mirror under the overbridge to appear to "extend" the quayside beyond the overbridge? (I think I saw a thread where someone modelled half of such a structure so that when mirrored it appeared whole!)

 

Looking really good, though!

 

Steve S

 

 

* To this end, I intend to persuade a materials science teacher I know to have a dockside Inglenook layout (two deadfrog points, one power feed, donated loco and stock) with the intention of getting her classes to create scale buildings using 3D modelling techniques (inspired by Frost's Mill) - the school has access to a laser burner and a 3D resin printer so lots of scope to get creative!  Maybe stimulate interest in a school model railway club?!

Edited by SteveyDee68
Reduced size of quote!
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On 18/05/2020 at 23:28, SteveyDee68 said:

Looking at the above photo, might I suggest that instead of a tree as a viewblocker at the front right corner, that you instead use an overhead loading gantry running to a tower building on the quay edge?  That would keep the cramped, busy look and naturally "close" the scene at that end.

 

Well it's interesting you mention that... I've been eyeing up the new Boxfile from Scalescenes flipped round - https://scalescenes.com/product/ly02-canal-wharf-boxfile-layout/

 

 

1093247462_Screenshot2020-05-21at20_46_23.png.421f9e0abe74eb3a40dcdeb41dc91640.png

 

 

Although I've previously eyed this option up too (also a Scalescenes box file!)

 

1666730995_Screenshot2020-05-21at20_49_39.png.936641d45c4400350f0f2a7659908ad7.png

 

 

 

Meanwhile I've printed the Scalescenes kit for the warehouse / factory to discover my 15 y/o Testors Dullcote seems to have died - mostly propellant comes out even after much much shaking (tried two tins both the same) - see below - same sheet held slightly differently below the workbench lamp! So I've been varnish shopping on Amazon to go with my Greyboard from Cm3models.co.uk as after my stick-a-thon with 36 sheets of A3 my stocks were somewhat depleted! 

 

 

zIMG_9460.jpg.eb4cc60a343982f8263e6b6b442e2d5d.jpg

 

 

Off to sulk until the postman comes... 


Ralf

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I like the end of the new canal boxfile too.  Makes me think of the following, very recognisable image...

 

 

IMG_0980.JPG

Edited by SteveyDee68
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Not done a great deal but hit upon the idea that the baseboards needed painting / sealing being mdf... So some watered magnolia and domestic permission to slop paint around in the laundry I've magnolia-ed most of the surfaces incl the back scene and baseboard top - which I was only going to spray grey but had some magnolia left in my pot... 

 

IMG_9582.JPG.50d980483da36e83a16ebc692ef2565e.JPG

 

IMG_9586.JPG.cc8b1a4051aeb81dc27fc3d76accce32.JPGIMG_9587.JPG.8804802f391b17b8aaa8ee4c04e412a3.JPG

 

 

So that was reasonably successful and I didn't have any disasters, left it to dry and came back to spray the modelling surfaces a darker grey... Job 2/3s done and it ran out... Left it to dry and I think I'll brush paint it with grey primer rather than messing about with aerosols which I hate and I don't have an airbrush... 

 

The nice Hermes man has just brought lots of Greyboard from CM3MODELS and there's to be varnish tomorrow so hopefully more progress soon... 

 

Cheers

Ralf

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Ralf

 

Sorry, a bit late to the show on this one, but with regard to your loop/inglenook conundrum mentioned earlier, why not just use the initial Rice trackplan but , instead of having the whole run round on scene, why not have both roads of the loop running off scene, where the two could be linked by a sector plate......

Just a thought

 

Disgusting of Market Harborough

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On 25/05/2020 at 17:41, Bungus the Fogeyman said:

Sorry, a bit late to the show on this one, but with regard to your loop/inglenook conundrum mentioned earlier, why not just use the initial Rice trackplan but , instead of having the whole run round on scene, why not have both roads of the loop running off scene, where the two could be linked by a sector plate......

 

Yes that'd be a cunning plan, it allows a limitless extension to the loop without really altering the plan but having kinda moved away from the Rice theme and layout I shall persevere as planned (he says).

 

 

Meanwhile I've been very busy making the most of the sun photographing wildlife rather than actually doing any modelling, but with imending less sunny weather to occupy my time it's Scalescenes Canal Wharf Box File Kit Structures A & C building time... C being the scenic break on the right hand end of the layout - except it's designed for the left hand end of a layout but surely it cannot be difficult! (ha ha ha! Keep your eyes peeled folks!) 

 

Here's structure C, printed on A4 labels and stuck onto card of the relevant thicknesses...

 

IMG_9764.JPG.19169e67212dc01162a7523125f67706.JPG

 

Ralf

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So actually more progress to report, I admit I had some of the kit glued up before I quite realised in concept how the structure was going together and what needed reversed, but thanks to my Mac having a very simple 'flip horizontal' option on printing (from the Preview app) PDF's a couple of reprinted sheets and it's getting there - although as you can see the front is simply propped up for now! 

 

The doorways etc under the building may need some adjusting although I had only planned on using the left hand (as you look at my model) aperture but thinking that's not the way forward... So who knows what'll happen tomorrow... 

 

IMG_9777.JPG.6d37a9c1d8edea7c6f4f84d98625b480.JPG

 

Ralf

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A smidge more progress with the kit, I'm sure I've printed some sheets more than twice already - the usual way round and mirrored, of course reading the labels for the parts etc isn't simple and having multiples of some sheets lying around the bench is just untidy and things get overlooked. Next time I'll print the whole shooting match mirrored and be done with it! 

 

Purchased some clamps t'other day and aren't they handy! What did I do before...

 

IMG_9796.JPG.490a2511c61e8f19c77e7c39a229e2f6.JPG

 

IMG_9825.JPG.aba58f8cd7b329041e3dd6afc181a28c.JPG

 

Cheers

Ralf

 

 

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Some more progress on my mirrored version of Structure C...

 

Not a lot to report except the windows in the hoist were rather problematic due to my own stupidity! First attempt I put them in without the sills, second time the sills were on the tops of the windows (thankfully everything is on sticky labels not glued so it peeled off ok), third time sills correct but incorrect windows used, forth time lucky! Phew got away with it... Must pay more attention! 

 

The roof tiling has also been done but isn't pictured here - next time don't worry! 


Ralf

IMG_9878.JPG.a7dcc062ca2a8fb944adbfbe73e9daec.JPG

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Posted (edited)

Structure C - about finished and in approx position on the layout...

 

IMG_9926.JPG.69cb32ef153a2ae79954d787bbaeb185.JPG

 

 

Then it's on to Structure A which seems much simpler - which I suppose it is without the openings and hoist to worry about... Quite rapid progress laminating the main structural bits - which isn't very evident in the photo never mind! Structure A is the corner one that sits behind Structure C and against the back scene, so once that's done I'll know where Structure C sits and what needs thinking about re: lining up the doors and the trackplan! 

 

IMG_9910.JPG.a6d6f6483c749464714db9d01cb0e6f3.JPGIMG_9911.jpg.5f7741abe09bbf597598755111c3f0db.jpg

 

Cheers

Ralf

 

Edited by Ralf
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So here's how it's coming on - slowly but surely! The doorways are definitely in the wrong place, I suspect I will crudely hack the door into supposedly being those trifold ones that fold flat against the wall... Thus enlarging the doorways! 

 

IMG_9951.JPG.0ae56ad9f164842ca9da95bc9d3ad42e.JPGIMG_9950.JPG.fa2f70aeb9043abb9c569ff0290a4cc2.JPG

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So here goes - yet more progress. Slight problem with the water tank, 99.9% certain my fault esp as I had some kit bits left over which I've omitted to photograph. Doesn't matter all fits now and left hand door and internal wall have been cut out so it's currently floating loose pending re-glueing in place. Except doors both structures now complete. 

 

I really ought to think about some track building but then that's way out of my comfort zone and don't really want to venture down that road but it need doing eventually! 

 

 

Bit of an issue width-wise here!

Left hand door is loose pending re-positioning...

IMG_0014.JPG

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So enough procrastination and stalled progress, I don't think as my first serious layout I'm going to battle and go down the PCB custom track route... Partially I leapt into PCB because I thought I could / would during lockdown and because it allows so much flexibility in design... - BUT the stark truth is that my slightly increased modelling time has resulted in almost no track work being done in 3 months only excuses being made and fears not being challenged and I've millions of other things to tackle, learn and deal with. Also I realised tonight that actually short radius Peco can be used and almost straight away fits the track plan with very little messing - see below, so that's probably the final nail in the coffin so PCB track - this time. 

 

IMG_0133.JPG.e62ebf5d507f07c2f7a0c0ebbb701e5c.JPG

IMG_0136.JPG.d8611600aa6f6ac4a4f374640350de0a.JPG

 

IMG_0138.JPG.f27cd98d20db49f014f71b8691e7312e.JPG

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So very little to report, I'm ordered SEEP point motors and Peco points from Hattons but the Peco points are out of stock and on back order - and were most places I looked so that's a waiting game. 


On with the Scalescenes warehouse but blimey cutting these joists out of 2mm greyboard was an epic task! - Not that it looks it now they're done! 

 

One thing I have learnt - cut the first cut through the sticky covering label with a very sharp scalpel then use the snap off knife to motor through the greyboard it saves the label wrinkling up slightly which it does when hacked at with a less then 100% new wider snap off blade... 


Cheers

Ralf

 

IMG_0283.jpg.48b06c55df4bf66d5e2cbfa68afffc0d.jpg

 

 

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Posted (edited)

A month of very little happening - mostly due to Borris & Co deciding I could return to work, lots of headaches and stuff ensued and very little modelling time...

 

Now you may recall I was struggling to obtain the required Peco points I tried various retailers and they either had insufficient stock or very high prices so I preordered with Hattons and popped the Seep motors in my trunk as the expected delivery was June (and I was ordering in late June so I assumed imminent)... So far so good. 

 

A couple of days ago I realised I hadn't heard anything - checks the Hattons site and delivery now showing Jul / Aug - oh... Checked the Trackshack website (satisfied customer) and they'd had a delivery (and perhaps Hattons have too but not enough for all pre-orders) so I promptly asked Hattons to send my SEEP Motors and order the points from TrackShack, both arrived this morning. 

 

Sorry for the rant and I'm not knocking Hattons if they don't receive sufficient stock dates slip I understand that but I'm glad I could cancel the order... 

 

So now been on a popular auction site to grab some clothes pegs - for this idea 

 

 

Thus the state of play is very unchanged and the Scalescenes kits have been paused to allow track laying before I bodge the warehouse and find it's too deep or shallow once I've hacked it up! More progress next week...

 

Meanwhile how to hide the back scene join? Either a single sheet of something or brace / bolt / gaffer tape it up from behind and fill the front if required as it'll never be split... 

 

IMG_0478.jpg.a4d8de22e0091a03ba6cc6ccc157584f.jpg

 

Cheers

Ralf

 

Edited by Ralf
Pic had been squashed!
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