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1 hour ago, coline33 said:

KW Trams have now been able to insert the ABS tram parts into their mainstream website so can now take orders directly.

Hi Colin.

 

Are we talking about the former Tower plastic tram kits  or whitemetal kits ?

 

All the best

Ray

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I believe they passed to BEC - The ABS kits are whitemetal.

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1 minute ago, sem34090 said:

I believe they passed to BEC - The ABS kits are whitemetal.

 

To clarify.

So can we now buy the complete whitemetal kits and the motorising parts.

Ray

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Your guess is as good as mine! I had a quick skim of the website but not enough to clarify either way!

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Just checked the KW Trams website and they say that they have acquired the ABS whitemetal tram, bus and road vehicle kits in 4mm and 7mm. They also appear to have the former Tower plastic kits, and the range also includes motor bogies and other useful items.

Looks very good.

 

All the best

 

Ray

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Ray, I have just gone through the KW Trams OO gauge section and the only reference to Tower kits is in respect of secondhand items.   Certainly there has been no mention of Tower as Brian Robinson has continued to advertise these but pointing out that he continues to be out of the country on his full time teaching contract,   Brian was expected back in business here this summer but that too may be delayed by the virus.   Colin.

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14 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Grove Street Tramway.

Not many pictures on the web.

Here's some inspiration for Sem.

1976552068_GroveStreetTramway1.jpg.15ec71153e150aabf190f45bccc52829.jpg

Breath in.

A nice Southern shot of what looks like a push-pull fitted ex-Brighton D1 working the train.

This was probably the most used type of loco on the tramway.

 

68277617_GroveStreetTramway3.jpg.bd4ca746e17f02e69e3b2e63553a1064.jpg

No parking controls then.

 

739255627_GroveStreetTramway.jpg.1c165a108809bf107b075ab616b9dff9.jpg

I think that the building on the right was the Queen Victoria pub.

 

1206059481_ConvoysWharfForeignCattleMarketEntrance.jpg.55bb7359624857928e6769245fdcb1dc.jpg

Convoys Wharf. This was where the entrance to the cattle market was. 

The gateway has been considerably widened. The tracks used to go in at an angle on the corner.

The loco shed was to the left just inside the gateway.

 

Hope you find useful.

All the best

Ray

 

 

Behind the gate in the last image some short lengths of track could be seen  in place when I gained access 2 or 3 years ago,  the gate had been broken and pushed open, but was soon fixed.   I think I can remember the track still in place was a trap-point /  head shunt to protect the gate and street from runaway wagons

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Hi Pandora.

I think that quite a lot of the old 18 inch track work was also still intact and used to move stuff around the site before it closed, though not using locomotives.

 

Thanks Colin. Brian Robinson sounds like the person who had the Tower tram kits. Mind you, I think that he was out of the country this time last year, so has he ever returned ?

 

Does he use a company name for his site, as I cannot find anything under his name. I think that I got a link from somewhere else last time I looked for the kits.

 

All the best

 

Ray

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Sorry.

Belay that last question Colin. I have just had another look and see that he uses the name BEC. Gets rather confusing when you can remember the old BEC whitemetal kits.

 

All the best

 

Ray

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Ray, you have by now probably got the reply I gave you on the "Brixton Hill Tram Depot" thread.   Colin.

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Posted (edited)

This is how the railway network in that area was in 1884. The line out of Victoria is down in the left hand margin in my old gazetteer. The Surrey Canal runs horizontally from Camberwell Road, under Old Kent Road and off into the Surrey Docks under the maze of lines between South Bermondsey, Old Kent Road & New Cross

South London railways 1884.jpg

Edited by phil_sutters
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You wouldn't have the whole map, would you Phil?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, sem34090 said:

You wouldn't have the whole map, would you Phil?

I can scan it in sections as the gazetteer's pages are bigger format than A4. It is in an old and rather fragile binding so it won't lie completely flat on the scanner. This is the scan from which I took the section I uploaded. If you need other sections let me know, I have uploaded several 'framed' versions of sections of the double page at

 You have the key to the lines in the bit I posted above. I won't obscure any of this version by adding it here. I don't know whether you know that there is a resource called the Southwark mapping service.  This is the map whose date is nearest to your layout, although I think looking through the posts above, you may well be familiar with it. https://geo.southwark.gov.uk/connect/analyst/mobile/#/main?mapcfg=Southwark historic maps&zoom=9&x=533949&y=175999 There are online maps of the area going back well into the 1800s and may be further. There are also printed maps in the Old Ordnance Survey Maps series, with OS maps from different eras. The ones I have are in the Godfrey Edition. I think that I got mine from the Ian Allan bookshop at Waterloo. 

I used live and work in Southwark and travelled to work near your layout's location for much of my working life. I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

South London railways wide view1884.jpg

Edited by phil_sutters
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2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Aah, yet another local !

 

All the best

 

Ray

I was! I escaped to the coast in 2009. I wasn't originally a local either. Most my childhood homes were in Somerset in GWR/S&DJR territory.

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Hi Sem.

 

One thing just crossed my mind which I should have picked up straight away. It concerns the location of your proposed tram depot and railway station. Up until 1963, when the Greater London Council was formed and the metropolitan boroughs merged into larger councils, the area you want to feature was in Camberwell, not Bermondsey !

Sorry.

 

All the best

Ray

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Not too much of a problem - I might not even need to change the name if other stations in London are anything to go buy when it comes to their proximity to their namesakes!

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Don't worry, SMET's so called 'Mitcham depot', a phrase used in some London tramway history books and articles, was in the County Borough of Croydon and not in the Mitcham UDC area.   It closed from normal operation about 1928 but when LPTB reopened it about 1935 they had the sense to rename it 'Croydon depot'.   However, this was not because of any geographic correction but to ensure that George Cohen's scrapmen did not get off the tram on the wrong side of Mitcham Common!   Move forward to the 1990's that structure was still in Aurelia Road when the present day Croydon depot was built at the end of Therapia Lane which faced Aurelia Road across Mitcham Road, Croydon.   Long live Bermondsey depot!

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Hi Colin.

 

Even more fun when researching our Crystal Palace High Level layout.

I am not sure what all the original boroughs were, but the Southwark part was then Camberwell and forms the centre of the map in a tapering vee shape with Crystal Palace Parade on its East side and the high level station on the West side

At the North-east end is now Lewisham, on the East side is Bromley, on the West side is Lambeth and at the South end is Croydon.

Originally a slice of the western side of the palace grounds was in Southwark (Camberwell), which meant that the whole of the first class passengers subway which remains intact was in Southwark. The boundary was moved a few years ago, so that the boundary now runs down the middle of the parade and therefore places the eastern half of the subway in Bromley. This has caused problems with public access to the subway as the only access was from the Bromley side and they have not been very co-operative at times in allowing access for open days, London Open Weekend etc. Fortunately, I believe that Southwark have now restored a staircase and one of the previously bricked up doorways on the West side, so there is now an alternative means of gaining access.

I do not know what other boundaries may have been moved in that area.

 

All the best

Ray

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Understanding CP boundaries and the politics are probably simpler now than in 1940.

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On 15/04/2020 at 20:09, sem34090 said:

IMG_20200415_011636.jpg.1fb1b76d8d3cab8957dc2c410e7eb78c.jpg

(1950 - Note the gaps.)

1211874675_LayoutMap.png.50041a06bd56f44606979d4cff1da4f2.png

The altered map. I haven't added additional houses, but the layout is set in 1940 so not all of the bombsites are there yet.

 

Just found this thread - interesting concept...

 

One comment though, the houses you've moved on Varcoe Road and outside the Depot would be rather uncomfortable to live in, you've chopped off their kitchens and outside lavs!

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50 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

Just found this thread - interesting concept...

Thank you Sir!

50 minutes ago, Nick C said:

One comment though, the houses you've moved on Varcoe Road and outside the Depot would be rather uncomfortable to live in, you've chopped off their kitchens and outside lavs!

They're the cheap 'ouses. :P

 

Of course, I should have drawn the map properly. ;)

 

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Posted (edited)

Goodness... quite the MHR presence in this thread today!

 

I ought to mention my latest purchases -

IMG_20200512_102410.jpg.10ac1da02a605268aa2e4706d9dd0c1f.jpg

IMG_20200512_102512.jpg.ea8bc4c02590fd201936178b5a6a862a.jpg

IMG_20200512_102603.jpg.1eb1d6948a95e11b1b953689d9a11d9d.jpg

To run with...

IMG_20200512_102304.jpg.c2ae63155394b6c991d8e23219f11dda.jpg

They're not for this layout though. They're for a re-imagining of Blackstone West to become...

1091232692_1589221930437_LTRoundelSimple(CHALFONTSTGILES).png.f4383d272ca00a58f623b7a160450ec1.png

Edited by sem34090
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16 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

Goodness... quite the MHR presence in this thread today!

 

I ought to mention my latest purchases -

IMG_20200512_102410.jpg.10ac1da02a605268aa2e4706d9dd0c1f.jpg

IMG_20200512_102512.jpg.ea8bc4c02590fd201936178b5a6a862a.jpg

IMG_20200512_102603.jpg.1eb1d6948a95e11b1b953689d9a11d9d.jpg

To run with...

IMG_20200512_102304.jpg.c2ae63155394b6c991d8e23219f11dda.jpg

 

Where did you get the coaches from and what make are they? I don't think Sarah Siddons would work on the Mid Hants as we don't have a balance rail!

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The coaches came from Ebay - They're built from the old Harrow Model Shop kits (They are actually 'Dreadnought's, not something else pretending to be), subsequently superseded by the current Radley kit. I couldn't have afforded to buy a set of the Radleys at £75 apiece, but having got these three for a little over that I might look at getting a Radley brake  to give a decent set.

 

The other option being considered is a Radley T Stock DM and DT, using the 'Dreadnought' Third and First as centre trailers.

 

'Sarah' on the MHR would be an interesting (not to mention ridiculous) scenario... 

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