Getting to Old Oak Common

[jointline]

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but here goes!  How did drivers/firemen get to Old Oak Common to clock on?  There are no stations near, apart from Old Oak Lane,  and later on, North Acton. 

 I assume a lot of them lived locally, but there were big railway estates at places like Hayes,  and some of the engine staff would presumably have lived there.

Old Oak Lane Halt was near the depot,  but the service there was not that good, and anyway was on the Birmingham line, not the GW main line. 

Could they go into Paddington, and then get a lift back on any engine to the depot returning there?  

I know getting to work was often a problem for many railwaymen on early shifts  (a friend of mine used to have to drive to Ealing Broadway from Hayes to open the booking office, because he had to be there for the first train)  but Old Oak is not an easy place to get to at any time of day if you were travelling by train.   

None of the contemporary references are much help. 

[chrisf]

It would depend where they lived.  North Acton and Acton Main Line were both on the 660 and 666 trolleybus routes, which passed very near to Old Oak Common depot, also served Willesden Junction and passed close to Noel Road where there was another big railway estate very handy for Acton Yard.

 

Chris, born and bred in Acton!

[Fat Controller]

Also, people would be used to walking or cycling what we would consider long distances. One of the porters at our local station lived near us, so had a two mile walk at the beginning and end of his shift. 

[Commoner]

During my time working at the Station Manager's Office Paddington 86-88, there was a staff bus service which ran between Padd and OOC, from memory every hour.  On some occasions if it wasn't running, or it had been disrupted, the service would be replaced by a loco.  In that event we would get a call from the platform supervisor informing us that the Loco was in their platform and a staff announcement would be made advising train crew of it's availability... 'staff announcement, staff announcement for train crew travelling to Old Oak Common, the LocoBus is on platform 1A'.  

[jointline]

2 hours ago, chrisf said:

It would depend where they lived.  North Acton and Acton Main Line were both on the 660 and 666 trolleybus routes, which passed very near to Old Oak Common depot, also served Willesden Junction and passed close to Noel Road where there was another big railway estate very handy for Acton Yard.

 

Chris, born and bred in Acton!

Thanks for this Chris.  I lived down the line in Hayes,  and some of my neighbours and friends were either drivers or guards on the WR.   Of course Southall shed was nearer, and within easy distance,  so if they were not top link they would have preferred  working from there.

[jointline]

2 hours ago, chrisf said:

It would depend where they lived.  North Acton and Acton Main Line were both on the 660 and 666 trolleybus routes, which passed very near to Old Oak Common depot, also served Willesden Junction and passed close to Noel Road where there was another big railway estate very handy for Acton Yard.

 

Chris, born and bred in Acton!

Thanks for this Chris.  I lived down the line in Hayes,  and some of my neighbours and friends were either drivers or guards on the WR.   Of course Southall shed was nearer, and within easy distance,  so if they were not top link they would have preferred  working from there.

 

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Also, people would be used to walking or cycling what we would consider long distances. One of the porters at our local station lived near us, so had a two mile walk at the beginning and end of his shift. 

Agreed!  I think we easily forget how far people walked to work.   I used to cycle about 10 miles each way at one time, and didn't think anything of it....fortunately not in winter though!

Edited April 14, 2020 by jointline

[jointline]

1 hour ago, Commoner said:

During my time working at the Station Manager's Office Paddington 86-88, there was a staff bus service which ran between Padd and OOC, from memory every hour.  On some occasions if it wasn't running, or it had been disrupted, the service would be replaced by a loco.  In that event we would get a call from the platform supervisor informing us that the Loco was in their platform and a staff announcement would be made advising train crew of it's availability... 'staff announcement, staff announcement for train crew travelling to Old Oak Common, the LocoBus is on platform 1A'.  

Thank you for that!   London Underground drivers used to be, maybe still are, picked up by minibuses to be taken to their depots,  but most preferred to be within walking distance because of the early starts.   I used to use the night staff trains from Paddington to Reading after going out in London.   They weren't advertised of course, but I never found the staff minded who got on so long as you had a valid ticket.   Would have been stumped without them!

[37501]

I worked as a fitter at OOC HST depot for a few months in 1991 and was a regular traveller on the worker bus to and from Paddington. Always good when this was replaced by a Class 47 or on one Friday night, 56001. The passengers on a due to depart charter thought that this was their loco...

 

On the early shift I and several others took the Greenford service which was a bubble car which stopped adjacent to the depot and the guard would allow us to climb down onto the ballast and dart across. Wouldn’t get away with doing that these days.

 

John

[Mike_Walker]

 56048 at platform 1A at Paddington acting as the “staff bus to Old Oak Common”. 23 August 1990.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mike_Walker

[Trevellan]

Back in the 1960s, any attempt at bunking OOC by me and my mates started at Willesden Junction station, which tends to support Chris F's answer.  As I recall, it wasn't far to walk.

[The Stationmaster]

Simple answer is that it depended where they lived.  many of the longer established (at Old Oak) staff lived on the railway estates at Acton and Hayes so generally they would make their way via various public transport routes with quite a few walking from North Acton on the Central Line (dependinh where they loved on the Acton estate the quickest route was to use the Central line from West Acton to North Acton and then walk while those who lived at Hayes would change at Ealing Broadway.  Prior to the post-war Central Line Extension there was of course also Old Oak Common Halt (on the Park Royal Line) and it was an easy walk from there.

 

In later years quite a number of Drivers moved further out buying their own houses in various parts of north west London.  there was also of course the hostel which was built after the war and replaced - so I understand - the dormitory coaches which had previously been used (ordinary corridor stock, not sleeping car).  By the early 1950s Old Oak was very much a depot where men went for their Firing grade as local recruitment was poor and the hostel assumed considerable significance with a few men living there for 20 years or more although those who settled permanently at the depot inevitably sought out their own housing particularly if they were married.

 

Other public transport routes have already been mentioned and eventually there was the workabus introduced from Paddington which was principally for people on duty but was used (unofficially) as residential transport.  I'm not sure when that started but it was running by the latter half of the 1960s using larger vehicles than the 12 seat 'people carrier' sort used in its later years.

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, jointline said:

Thank you for that!   London Underground drivers used to be, maybe still are, picked up by minibuses to be taken to their depots,  but most preferred to be within walking distance because of the early starts.   I used to use the night staff trains from Paddington to Reading after going out in London.   They weren't advertised of course, but I never found the staff minded who got on so long as you had a valid ticket.   Would have been stumped without them!

In the 1970s and 80s London Transport used to run various staff bus services in the small hours that served the railway depots, and probably quite a few other LT establishments, using full size buses and crews that were otherwise standing spare. Certainly on the underground there were duties that started late, bringing in the last trains, sleeping on the cushions overnight and taking the first trains out in the morning. I guess it I a practice that dates back to an era when fewer people had private cars. By the late 80s buses had been replaced by taxis working on contract.

LT also ran quite a network of staff buses from Chiswick Works and, presumably, Aldenham Works, but I can't remember them being a feature of life in Acton Works.

 

Jim

[jointline]

2 hours ago, 37501 said:

I worked as a fitter at OOC HST depot for a few months in 1991 and was a regular traveller on the worker bus to and from Paddington. Always good when this was replaced by a Class 47 or on one Friday night, 56001. The passengers on a due to depart charter thought that this was their loco...

 

On the early shift I and several others took the Greenford service which was a bubble car which stopped adjacent to the depot and the guard would allow us to climb down onto the ballast and dart across. Wouldn’t get away with doing that these days.

 

John

Thanks for this!  Nice bit of history.  I still remember the auto-trains going to Greenford.  (Some of the family used to take them from Shepherds Bush to Northolt when they had trotting races there, but that was a very long time ago!)

[jointline]

2 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

 56048 at platform 1A at Paddington acting as the “staff bus to Old Oak Common”. 23 August 1990.

Great picture,  thank you!

 

[jointline]

39 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Simple answer is that it depended where they lived.  many of the longer established (at Old Oak) staff lived on the railway estates at Acton and Hayes so generally they would make their way via various public transport routes with quite a few walking from North Acton on the Central Line (dependinh where they loved on the Acton estate the quickest route was to use the Central line from West Acton to North Acton and then walk while those who lived at Hayes would change at Ealing Broadway.  Prior to the post-war Central Line Extension there was of course also Old Oak Common Halt (on the Park Royal Line) and it was an easy walk from there.

 

In later years quite a number of Drivers moved further out buying their own houses in various parts of north west London.  there was also of course the hostel which was built after the war and replaced - so I understand - the dormitory coaches which had previously been used (ordinary corridor stock, not sleeping car).  By the early 1950s Old Oak was very much a depot where men went for their Firing grade as local recruitment was poor and the hostel assumed considerable significance with a few men living there for 20 years or more although those who settled permanently at the depot inevitably sought out their own housing particularly if they were married.

 

Other public transport routes have already been mentioned and eventually there was the workabus introduced from Paddington which was principally for people on duty but was used (unofficially) as residential transport.  I'm not sure when that started but it was running by the latter half of the 1960s using larger vehicles than the 12 seat 'people carrier' sort used in its later years.  

Thanks for this Mike.   It really only raised itself as a question when I was looking at an early map of West London this morning,  and thinking about how far out OOC was, and relatively inaccessible by passenger train.  Must admit I had it in mind that railwaymen would normally use the railway to get to work,  but there of course is no obvious reason not to use other means of transport, except cost?

Southall also had a large hostel,  which lasted until at least the end of steam.

Fascinating piece of social history about the how and where of working life. 

[jointline]

29 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

In the 1970s and 80s London Transport used to run various staff bus services in the small hours that served the railway depots, and probably quite a few other LT establishments, using full size buses and crews that were otherwise standing spare. Certainly on the underground there were duties that started late, bringing in the last trains, sleeping on the cushions overnight and taking the first trains out in the morning. I guess it I a practice that dates back to an era when fewer people had private cars. By the late 80s buses had been replaced by taxis working on contract.

LT also ran quite a network of staff buses from Chiswick Works and, presumably, Aldenham Works, but I can't remember them being a feature of life in Acton Works.

 

Jim

Thanks for this.  Only really became aware of the logistics of getting to work for Underground drivers when I read  What We Talk About When We Talk About The Tube: The District Line (Penguin Underground Lines).  Quite an entertaining read!

[chrisf]

I don't know whether the walking route from North Acton is still open.  It comprised a path along the south side of the Central Line to Acton Wells whre it crossed on a bridge past the site of Old Oak Lane Halt to steps down to Old Oak Common Lane.  For part of its length the path was cantilevered out over the Central Line tracks.  It scared the cr@p out of me when I was very young!  The bridge made a good vantage point for photographing trains on the Central Line and the tracks which used to run alongside to Wood Lane.  One Sunday morning in 1960 my father got all mysterious and took me with him to that bridge.  He photographed a ramblers excursion from Greenford to Ardingly, hauled as far as East Croydon by City of Truro. 

I wish I knew what happened to the photo.

 

Chris

Edited April 14, 2020 by chrisf

[jointline]

21 minutes ago, chrisf said:

I don't know whether the walking route from North Acton is still open.  It comprised a path along the south side of the Central Line to Acton Wells whre it crossed on a bridge past the site of Old Oak Lane Halt to steps down to Old Oak Common Lane.  For part of its length the path was cantilevered out over the Central Line tracks.  It scared the cr@p out of me when I was very young!  The bridge made a good vantage point for photographing trains on the Central Line and the tracks which used to run alongside to Wood Lane.  One Sunday morning in 1960 my father got all mysterious and took me with him to that bridge.  He photographed a ramblers excursion from Greenford to Ardingly, hauled as far as East Croydon by City of Truro. 

I wish I knew what happened to the photo.

 

Chris

Yup, a fascinating area.  When I was younger I could never quite work out why the WR lines went under the main line (down to Kensington Milk) , or where they went to, as never saw any trains on them.  Never there at the right time I guess...!  The GWR always took advertising advantage of the Central Line extensions;  one  GW map I have showed that GW trains actually ran to Liverpool Street  (and not via the Widened Lines...!)

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, chrisf said:

I don't know whether the walking route from North Acton is still open.  It comprised a path along the south side of the Central Line to Acton Wells whre it crossed on a bridge past the site of Old Oak Lane Halt to steps down to Old Oak Common Lane.  For part of its length the path was cantilevered out over the Central Line tracks.  It scared the cr@p out of me when I was very young!  The bridge made a good vantage point for photographing trains on the Central Line and the tracks which used to run alongside to Wood Lane.  One Sunday morning in 1960 my father got all mysterious and took me with him to that bridge.  He photographed a ramblers excursion from Greenford to Ardingly, hauled as far as East Croydon by City of Truro. 

I wish I knew what happened to the photo.

 

Chris

By the early 1980s it had acquired a reputation as 'mugging alley' and many Old Oak staff refused to use it for that reason while one or two specifically used it for the same reason hoping to either give one or two low life a good sorting out or to prove to the doubters that their fear of it was misplaced. 

1 hour ago, jointline said:

Yup, a fascinating area.  When I was younger I could never quite work out why the WR lines went under the main line (down to Kensington Milk) , or where they went to, as never saw any trains on them.  Never there at the right time I guess...!  The GWR always took advertising advantage of the Central Line extensions;  one  GW map I have showed that GW trains actually ran to Liverpool Street  (and not via the Widened Lines...!)

The Ealing & Shepherds Bush railway was a fascinating bit of line and still has much of interest in its current TfL incarnation with some of its original GWR buildings still in very good external condition including some painted in a faux version of light & dark stone.   Its start in life was very long drawn out partly to the Great War but although it was authorised in 1905 construction did not commence until 1911 and was then delayed by the war. It opened to goods traffic in April 1917 but not to passenger traffic until August 1920.     

 

It was a very odd line by normal GWR standards being electrified from the start - on the centre third rail principle - which made it the only wholly owned GWR route to be electrified apart from a short stretch at Paddington (the Hammersmith & City was jointly owned by the GWR and Met) but unlike the H&C the GWR had no ownership share of the electric trains which used it.  From the outset passenger services were operated by the Central London Railway hence GWR maps showing a service through to Liverpool Street via that route.  Freight services were steam worked by the GWR accessing the line through a connection at Ealing Broadway and thence to West London Line via connection from Wood Lane Jcn to Viaduct Jcn.  It was converted to LPTB standard 3rd & 4th rail electrification system in 1940.  One interesting feature of the line which remains is that because of the way it was connected to the original CLR line at Wood Lane there is a short section of right hand running although this is most likely a hangover of the original reversing loop (yes!!) at Wood Lane which trains used in an anti-clockwise direction.  The line also boasted what I believe, at 4 miles 15 chs, was probably the longest ever continuous stretch in Britain equipped with 3 position UQ semaphore signalling including automatic signals in the sections between the signal boxes.  

 

A couple of things I have never been able to accurately date are when the  the connection to the GWR at North Acton was installed (one possibility - but see comment below re signalling - is that it was part of the works for the postwar northern extension of the Central Line to West Ruislip - which incidentally led to the closure of the adjacent GWR North Acton Halt as well as Old Oak Common Halt) and when the separate double tracks for steam worked trains were added although I think that was also part of the Central Line extension scheme.  The parallel steam worked lines lasted into the early 1960s and were principally used by milk trains by then as it enabled them to avoid the flat Victoria Branch Junction at Old Oak Common East.   The 3 position signalling lasted until 1946 at which time the electrified lines were converted to standard LT colour-light signalling which suggests the steam lines might have been opened at that time.  There was definitely a connection from the electric lines to the GWR lines at North Acton by then but it is not clear when that was provided.

 

The date of transfer to LPTB is quoted as various dates by different sources but it certainly took place no later than 01 January 1948 

[JimC]

In Bernard Barlow's "Didcot Engineman" he tells of lodging with a fireman at Barlby Gardens just off Ladbroke grove and walking to OOC - about 45 minutes.

[Rugd1022]

In my time at Old Oak ('83 to '85) the workabus was every half hour, with two buses working round the clock most of the time. If one of them was unavailable or the driver had gone Tom & Dick a loco would be substituted as mentioned further up the thread, a 31 or 47 being the best choice as the cabs had more room than a 50, on odd occasions though one of the 08s would be used, IIRC the record was nine men in the cab on one particular trip! If I caught the tube from Hammersmith into Padd I'd always look across to see if there was a light loco sat in platform 1a then make a mad dash for it across the footbridge at the country end of the overall roof, I missed it a few times and had to wait for the next one. If there was no sign of a bus or a loco anywhere, a quick call to Old Oak panel on 2905 using the phone behind the stop blocks on platform 8 would get the info on what was happening. On night turns with no night bus I'd usually walk from Hammersmith to Old Oak which took about forty minutes, it was much safer then than it is now.

 

Some of the workabus drivers would give Stirling Moss (RIP) a run for his money, I'm sure Mike knows who I mean....! With no bus available the 'loco bus' would usually be double manned with one of us doing the up runs and the other doing the downs, mostly we'd go via the ECS flyover and see how fast we could go over the top and down the other side, within reason of course - they were very different times back then.

 

As I recall most of the drivers and secondman lived fairly close to Old Oak but a few lived out in places like Twickenham, Beaconsfield, Denham, Highwycombe etc, one or two lived south of the river too.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Rugd1022

[Bomag]

6 hours ago, Trevellan said:

Back in the 1960s, any attempt at bunking OOC by me and my mates started at Willesden Junction station, which tends to support Chris F's answer.  As I recall, it wasn't far to walk.

 

A long time ago while on a training course at Euston (we had to see the doc) I was told that on previous courses we should have spent an afternoon at one bit of OOC where they had some ancient bullhead in apparently dire condition to see how bad it got (as a learning opportunity) . On an earlier course a bloke from the WR had absolutely no knowledge of anything other than the WR so when the rest them got a 313 to Willesdon Jct he went via Paddington and some unknown way points. The group had the tour of the bad bits and was leaving as the WR bloke arrived! Unfortunately they unsportingly did up OOC so I never got to go round until much later (the 1991 open day, where the queue was halfway back to Willesdon Jct!).   

[jonny777]

25 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

A long time ago while on a training course at Euston (we had to see the doc) I was told that on previous courses we should have spent an afternoon at one bit of OOC where they had some ancient bullhead in apparently dire condition to see how bad it got (as a learning opportunity) . On an earlier course a bloke from the WR had absolutely no knowledge of anything other than the WR so when the rest them got a 313 to Willesdon Jct he went via Paddington and some unknown way points. The group had the tour of the bad bits and was leaving as the WR bloke arrived! Unfortunately they unsportingly did up OOC so I never got to go round until much later (the 1991 open day, where the queue was halfway back to Willesdon Jct!).   

 

 

That reminds me of the 1972 OOC Open Day. A spotting friend and myself with no knowledge of London geography decided to drive there. We must have come very close as I remember going through a long shopping street in Ealing but then became rather lost and the next thing we knew was seeing a sign saying Willesden Junction. 

 

Knowing no more than Willesden was on a route to Euston we bought tickets to there, caught the tube to Paddington and then the special shuttle to Old Oak, which I think had 92220 as motive power for a time (although that might have been a dream I had). 

 

On arrival at the depot I remember thinking that the cooling tower of a power station there looked quite similar to the one we had left behind at Willesden Junc an hour or so earlier. We pottered around the Open Day for a couple of hours and then repeated the round London journey to Willesden. 

 

It was only when we drove away from Willesden and after a few hundred yards drove by the entrance signs to OOC open day that we began to appreciate the proximity of the two locations; but it wasn't until I looked at an OS map that I realised how embarrassing our ignorance had been. 

[keefer]

Odd that Mike should mention the Ealing & Shepherd's Bush Railway as I was just watching a modern YouTube video about the line.

Look for 'BoogiesTrains' - he has loads of spotting videos at various London locations (and elsewhere) and gives a history of the lines being viewed using captions.

EDIT: To add link

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by keefer

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

 

Some of the workabus drivers would give Stirling Moss (RIP) a run for his money, I'm sure Mike knows who I mean....! With no bus available the 'loco bus' would usually be double manned with one of us doing the up runs and the other doing the downs, mostly we'd go via the ECS flyover and see how fast we could go over the top and down the other side, within reason of course - they were very different times back then.

 

 

My dad made the journey to Old Oak quite a few times, as civil engineers wagon supervisor he was looking for lost or delayed engineers wagons. He was not a good road passenger at the best of times, and some of the workabus drivers made a lasting impression on him! I think they were mostly West Indian guys, one was a great cricket fan, and when the England v West Indies tests were being played he always listened to a transistor radio, he was so keen if he forgot to bring it to work he bought a new one. One was known as 'Side saddle' as I think he kept turning round to chat to his passengers, which quite un-nerved my dad!

 

cheers

Edited April 14, 2020 by Rivercider
Grammar