Bearwood West Yard Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 10 hours ago, freightliner_bond_57007 said: There seems to be a bit of the wagon length missing: around 10mm missing from the bogie centres around 20mm missing from the length over the headstock If 20mm is missing from the Salmon, that would make it no more than an over-length BDA. I've stuck to the Cambrian kits as £50 per model is a bit steep just to strip, respray and modify it into an Osprey. I don't doubt your findings, but being a toolmaker apprentice I can't imagine a tooling error as catastrophic as being 20mm out given the precision measuring equipment such as a Stiefelmayer that are available today. If the tooling had been made to the exact 60ft specification (measuring solebar length) then the tooling would be wrong anyway. Given Flangeway are experienced in manufacturing from the Snowplough, it does question what happened with your example. Tooling is always made larger than the model to counteract the contraction rate of the metal as it solidifies. On the assumption that the production material was a Zinc based white metal alloy as is common in the hobby, the tooling would have to be 2.5% larger. And even if the tooling was to wagon spec of 240mm on the solebar, -2.5% would only make the model 6mm under size. I'm very intrigued. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I’ve seen Alan’s photo of the Cambrian and Flangeway models side by side. It’s been designed 20mm too short. Let’s wait to see what Flangeway say. cheers Shane 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Bearwood West Yard said: Given Flangeway are experienced in manufacturing from the Snowplough, it does question what happened with your example. The Flangeway Snowplow (and Mermaid for that matter) weren't without their problems either. Jon Edited January 25, 2021 by jonhall 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 'When looking into the drawings for my YKA Osprey conversions - it turns out that the mounting holes for the upper stanchions are slotted to take into account that there are two widths to the floor for Salmons.......... Having said that - the two widths are 8' and 7'10", equivalent to 0.667mm in 4mm scale. Is that really worth worrying about? Will anyone actually notice? IMO - no. Cheers, Mick' No Mick - too busy wondering where the missing 20mm is! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Hi everyone, I was hoping to get some of the more modern variants when they come out with the ASF bogies to convert to Ospreys. Having seen the rather large discrepancy to the length of the wagon, unless that’s corrected on those, I will not be buying a rake after all. Thanks to Alan for sharing his measurements and comparison to the Cambrian kit. Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwood West Yard Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 58 minutes ago, MRDBLUE17 said: I was hoping to get some of the more modern variants when they come out with the ASF bogies to convert to Ospreys. If you're still planning on converting some Ospreys but from Cambrian's C88 kits Mark, I have initial samples of the middle stanchion and end trusses being 3D printed at the moment. I plan on running a production batch around Feb/March time providing the samples come back good. If they would help, I will be posting updates in my workbench thread. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Wolf27 said: I’ve seen Alan’s photo of the Cambrian and Flangeway models side by side. It’s been designed 20mm too short. Let’s wait to see what Flangeway say. cheers Shane Hi Shane. Any chance of sharing the photo on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted January 25, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Based on the BR weight diagrams for Salmons, the prototype dimensions are: Bogie centres 45' Over headstocks 62' Over buffers 65' or 65'5" (depending on buffer type) In 4mm, those equate to Bogie centres 180mm Over headstocks 248mm Over buffers 260mm or 262mm (rounded up to the nearest mm) How does the model compare, can someone measure one up and report back, please? Edited January 25, 2021 by CloggyDog 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post freightliner_bond_57007 Posted January 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2021 Hi all, 2Courtesy of Barrowmore: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Book350Dugdale01_Issue.pdf Page 72 onwards Bogie centres = 13,716mm Over head stocks = 18,898mm Over buffers = 19,938mm Converted 1:76.2 Bogie centres = 180mm Over head stocks = 248mm Over buffers = 262mm (rounded) I only have a tape to hand so may be +/- 1mm ABogie centres = 170mm Over head stocks = 228mm Over buffers = 240mm Here’s also a pic of side by side comparison with a Cambrian. I posted this info on DEMU forum last night hence some of the above comments. Cheers Alan 3 1 2 14 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clagsniffer Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Wow, now this is a shock. Slightly regretting buying 12 of them now. Some serious thinking to do............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Well that's a shame. They must have had a strong reason to make the compromise. I won't be buying any now though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I'm very disappointed by this news, as I've been looking forward to these since they were first announced several years ago. Looking at the photograph above with the Flangeway model sitting adjacent to a Cambrian kit, it looks as though the missing length is spread throughout the length of the wagon, which means that the overall proportions look okay - it's just the model seems to be to a scale of something like 1:83 rather than 1:76. I was hoping to buy several of the more recent models with ASF bogies and load them up with track panels, but if they are too short to accommodate scale length panels, then I may have to reconsider my purchase plans. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 56 minutes ago, CloggyDog said: Based on the BR weight diagrams for Salmons, the prototype dimensions are: How does the model compare, can someone measure one up and report back, please? Unfortunately if you were hoping for accidental HO for Dounreay, you will be disappointed - its not that either its more or less midway between HO/OO by my reckoning. Airfix got round this dilemma by putting HO/OO on the Interfrigo kit box, but that was in 1962... Jon 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted January 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2021 Very disappointing. If this is not an error I wonder what the logic is. The only one I can think off is to negotiate first radius curves but I doubt it. There are many RTR coaches of similar or longer length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, BR Blue said: Very disappointing. If this is not an error I wonder what the logic is. The only one I can think off is to negotiate first radius curves but I doubt it. There are many RTR coaches of similar or longer length. I hope this isn't a deliberate choice, that sort of thing hasn't been acceptable for decades, and I've been very critical of manufacturers planning to cut corners, before the model is manufactured. However I fear its a cock up, and once the products have turned up in the UK it must be completely demoralising for them to discover a boo boo like this, because there is nothing they can do to put it right and (if it is a boo boo) my heart goes out to them. Jon 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Have any magazines reviewed this wagon yet and not noticed its shortcomings!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opelsi Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Remote selling regs. There could be a lot of returns. If as appears to be true - how on earth has this happened? We may never know! I feel for the company - they could suffer very badly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Foden Posted January 25, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2021 Hugely disappointing to hear this, and I feel a bit of a mug now for singing the model's praises so highly. I'd sold off all but one of my Cambrian Salmons, which was damaged, and didn't even think to compare the two as they looked right (to my eye atleast) out the box, but having dug the Cambrian out, and compared them, that's quite a shocking disparity! (assuming the Cambrian is correct) I've 18 of these, and wished to model some with scale track panels, quite gutted to hear about this, especially after having sunk over £900 into them 3 5 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 18 minutes ago, Foden said: Hugely disappointing to hear this, and I feel a bit of a mug now for singing the model's praises so highly. I'd sold off all but one of my Cambrian Salmons, which was damaged, and didn't even think to compare the two as they looked right (to my eye atleast) out the box, but having dug the Cambrian out, and compared them, that's quite a shocking disparity! (assuming the Cambrian is correct) I've 18 of these, and wished to model some with scale track panels, quite gutted to hear about this, especially after having sunk over £900 into them Wow that is shorter !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Well im glad I held off, I was consdiering buying some, but with that reduced length it is a bit puzzling as to why? suddenly my query regarding the price doesnt seem so bad? I do wish footplate / Flangeway sucess in selling these, but now with this knowledge, Ill be sticking to the Cambrian kits myself, Thankfully I'll only need 2-3 for my layout so the price wont seem too bad, plus on the upside another wagon to wreck , destroy, Model during the lockdown NL 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, BR Blue said: If this is not an error I wonder what the logic is. ... so you can fit an extra wagon in the fiddle yard ! Unfortunately, I suspect that it's simply an error. Looking at @Foden's photographs, it looks like most of the missing length is actually in the section between the ends of the underframe trusses and the buffers, which means that it's not even a 1:83 scale wagon. The length of the underframe trusses look similar between the Cambrian and Flangeway models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clagsniffer Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Would be nice to hear the thoughts from the manufacturer on this. I think I’ll be contacting them in the morning regarding a return, it’s one of them things that I just can’t un-see. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanClive Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Such a shame , a model i was really looking forward to , glad i waited and did not pre order , as others have said would be nice to hear from footplate about this Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2021 10 hours ago, Dungrange said: ... so you can fit an extra wagon in the fiddle yard ! Unfortunately, I suspect that it's simply an error. Looking at @Foden's photographs, it looks like most of the missing length is actually in the section between the ends of the underframe trusses and the buffers, which means that it's not even a 1:83 scale wagon. The length of the underframe trusses look similar between the Cambrian and Flangeway models. I doubt it's an error, the bogies are similarly compressed. You can fool some of the people some of the time etc etc. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clagsniffer Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I thought we might have heard something from @Richard Barnett by now? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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