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Hi,

 

Elsewhere there are two images of Peaks at Bath Green Park both showing the headcode 2B 92, preumably they have worked down via the exMR Bristol line.

Any chance that someone might know the story behind the headcodes?

 

Thank you

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2B92 was the Bristol Division head code for ordinary class 2 (ie stopping) passenger trains between Bath Green Park and Templecombe (and the Plymouth Division head code for the onward stretch from Templecombe to the Regional boundary at Blandford). (2B93 was Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Green Park.)

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41 minutes ago, bécasse said:

2B92 was the Bristol Division head code for ordinary class 2 (ie stopping) passenger trains between Bath Green Park and Templecombe (and the Plymouth Division head code for the onward stretch from Templecombe to the Regional boundary at Blandford). (2B93 was Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Green Park.)

Thank you, odd that the code is appearing on locos that never AFAIA travelled on SDJR metals. 
 

cheers

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12 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Thank you, odd that the code is appearing on locos that never AFAIA travelled on SDJR metals. 

I rather wonder whether it was a "wind-up", if you will forgive the pun. Either resulting from a request from the photographer and/or some enthusiasts to the crew to show that head code for the purposes of a photograph, or even the train crew themselves having a little bit of fun. Providing that the locomotive didn't undertake a running move showing that head code no rules would have ben broken.

Bus enthusiasts quite commonly requested bus crews to show rare blind displays for photographic purposes while a bus was at a stand, and back in the days when London's Northern Line tube was still operated with 1938 tube stock it wasn't unusual, if one looked, to find the intermediate driving cab displaying "ALEXANDRA PALACE", "BUSHEY HEATH" or other destinations on the proposed extensions which never, in fact, got built.

 

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1 hour ago, bécasse said:

I rather wonder whether it was a "wind-up", if you will forgive the pun. Either resulting from a request from the photographer and/or some enthusiasts to the crew to show that head code for the purposes of a photograph, or even the train crew themselves having a little bit of fun. Providing that the locomotive didn't undertake a running move showing that head code no rules would have ben broken.

Bus enthusiasts quite commonly requested bus crews to show rare blind displays for photographic purposes while a bus was at a stand, and back in the days when London's Northern Line tube was still operated with 1938 tube stock it wasn't unusual, if one looked, to find the intermediate driving cab displaying "ALEXANDRA PALACE", "BUSHEY HEATH" or other destinations on the proposed extensions which never, in fact, got built.

 

Both images seem to be have been taken at different times, therefore collusion may/may not be discounted.

 

Click for link to BGP image 1

 

Click for link to BGP image 2

 

The images were submitted to our Facebook 'Modelling the SDJR' group and are hosted independently. There is a persistent rumour that a Peak did, once, bank out of Bath through Devonshire tunnel but enquiries to our various exfootplate members have discounted it as 'wishful'

 

Cheers

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3 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Both images seem to be have been taken at different times, therefore collusion may/may not be discounted.

 

There can't have been too many train crews that would have had route knowledge into BGP and have been passed to drive Peaks. It may well have been the same train crew on two separate occasions - or different train crews from the same depot who had heard how well the "joke" had gone down previously!

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And now to what really happened (and possibly didn't happen?).  A quick check of a relevant has revealed what I suspected might have been the case - 2B92 applied to trains between Bristol and Bournemouth via the S&DJt (and no doubt to some intermediate stations as well) while 29 B93 applied in the opposite direction throughout from Bournemouth to Bristol.  That fits common WR practice at that time to used the odd number (i.e. 93) in one direction and the even number (i.e. 92 in the opposite direction).   Additionally the two numbers were used as explained separately for train either north or south of Bath.

 

So the only thing which is wrong is that the headcode should read 2B93 but has probably, and not unusually, been set similarly at both ends before the loco came off Bath Road or - again not entirely unusually - at some time the numbers were altered.

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There would have been a good number of Bath Road men with RK to BGP and TK for the class 45/6 Peaks in the early to mid 60s I would have thought.  If the shed has diagrammed work involving the route and locos there would have to be at least in that link.

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Peaks worked into Bath Green Park on 3V17 00.37 Leicester to Bath parcels, returning from Bath on 3M28 20.25 Templecombe to Derby parcels.  Certainly during 1963 and possibly 1964, the Peak had a fill in turn on 2B93 10.10 Bath to Bristol Temple Meads and 11.49 (12.12 SO) Bristol to Bath.  When the Leicester parcels was steam hauled, Bath's two long standing Standard 3's 82004/41 deputised.

 

When the Leicester parcels was discontinued into Bath (instead going to Bristol) the turn was steam rostered in 1965.  Even after the closure of Barrow Road on 20 November 1965, the turn remained steam hauled, the final occasion being on 1 January 1966, appropriately hauled by 82041.

 

The locos noted for a week in August 1963 were:

 

Monday August 12          82041

Tuesday August 13          D158

Wednesday August 14    D144

Thursday August 15        82041

Friday August 16              82041

 

Occasionally if the parcels was steam and the Standard 3's were not available, Black Fives would work the train, 44777 on 3 Jan 1963.

 

82041 and 1960's Spotters

Three friends pose as 82041 backs onto the 2B93 11.49 Bristol Temple Meads to Bath Green Park

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So the plot thickens.

When 4-character headcodes were introduced on the WR in 1960, irrespective of the point of commencement any Claas 2 or 3 train terminating between Bristol and Bath Green Park carried -B93. ECS trains from Lawrence Hill to Temple Meads carried 3B93. ECS to Lawrence Hill carried its own dedicated number of 3B68.

Trains proceeding south beyond Bath Green Park carried 2B92, but any train proceeding north towards Mangotsfield and Bristol, even from Bournemouth, carried 2B93. so are the trains going south, have the numbers been changed by that time or have they got the wrong number?

I know that as said by Stationmaster the WR went to odds and evens for different directions in most areas but don't know when this came in. There certainly didn't seem to be much logic to the Birmingham area ones at the point of transfer to the LMR

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I'd like a bit of help with this, too if possible

If a Class 52 was taking freight from Exeter to Penzance, what would be the likely headcode, if the train was restricted to 45 mph?

 

I'm looking to modify one for my layout/

 

Many thanks, 

 

Dene

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The headcode is not dependent on the speed of the train, which is imposed by the speed allowed to the slowest wagon in it, but on the timings.  Thus your Western's headcode will be as follows:-

 

First character, 6, 7, or 8 depending on the train.  A fully fitted Class 6 might consist of 10' wheelbase vans, opens, and conflats, even fitted 9' wheelbase minerals, limited to 45 mph. A part fitted train of similar traffic will have unfitted vehicles at the rear and a brake van with a guard riding in it; the difference between 7 and 8 being the number of wagons fitted with automatic brakes operated by the driver, and given in the load book carried by the guard for each class of loco.  Class 8 had less of this 'brake force' and were timed to run at 35 mph, but a Class 8 consisting of Bogie Bolsters can legitimately run up to 60mph line speed permitting and so long as the driver allows for stopping distance if a distant is 'on'.  9' wheelbase wagons (16t mineral, iron ore hoppers) were at one time speed restricted to 35mph but allowed 45mph at the same time that 10' wheelbase wagons were restricted to 45mph from 60mph following the Thirsk derailment that destroyed DP2.

 

Second character, the destination of the train.  Penzance was in Plymouth Division for some time and would have been C, but B after the Plymouth Division was incorporated into Bristol (1969?).  C was then used for South Wales destinations that had previously been F.  Other letters were used internally within divisions and authorised by local instructions

 

 Third and fourth characters, the train reporting number.  

 

There is no correlation between the Class of a train and the speed it is allowed to run at, though the Class does has a bearing on the timings and loads, which are not the same thing as speed.  Classes are numbered 1-9 and 0 in order to inform signalmen of the priority that should be given to them; clearly a class 6 has running priority over a class 8, and everything has priority over a light engine, but a signalman may on his own initiative give a light engine the road knowing that it can accelerate quickly and clear the section without inconveniencing other traffic; it can run up to 75mph.  Class 9, whatever the speed allowed to the wagons, run with the instanter couplings in the long position and are speed restricted to 25mph, so by the 60s were rare on double track main lines and booked to run on goods lines or relief roads.

 

So, to take as an example of a class 2 passenger train running on a 90mph line speed road carrying tail traffic and speed restricted to 45mph would still be given priority over a Class 4 Freightliner capable of 75mph, though admittedly this would be rare in normal working and the WTT avoids it.  Simple way to look at it; all Classes of trains are allowed to run at line speed subject to vehicle speed restrictions, but timed to run according to load and brake force, except Class 9 which is restricted to 25mph maximum irrespective of line speed or load, and 0 (light engine) which is restricted to 75mph because of lack of brake force.

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 24/04/2020 at 13:54, Siphon208 said:

I'd like a bit of help with this, too if possible

If a Class 52 was taking freight from Exeter to Penzance, what would be the likely headcode, if the train was restricted to 45 mph?

 

I'm looking to modify one for my layout/

 

Many thanks, 

 

Dene

One freight working hauled by a Western for many years was 6V53 Stoke on Trent to St Blazey empty clayliner. Although the train was formed of empty OWVs (wooden bodied highfits) as far as Exeter Riverside once beyond Exeter it conveyed OWVs and general vacuum braked freight for the west.

 

cheers

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Hello everyone

 

The only WTT I have for the period is Summer 1961 and shows trains from Bristol (Temple Meads) to Bath (Green Park) and then Bath (Green Park) to Templecombe which - by default - shows those progressing to and from Bournemouth West.

 

No matter Up nor Down, the code for many trains between Bath (Green Park) and points south was 2B92. Photos show that the code was seldom displayed on the loco.

 

No matter Up nor Down, the code for many trains between Bath (Green Park) and Bristol (Temple Meads) was 2B93. I have also seen 2B95 on a Peak (in 1963) and 2B74 on a Hymek (undated).

 

I'm sorry that I can't offer you any reason as to why the Peaks in question show 2B92 - unless the document referred to by Mike above says something different to my document.

 

No-one from the S&D that I ever spoke to could say who was responsible for putting train reporting numbers on locos. There was certainly no-one allocated to such a task at Branksome (the shed at the Bournemouth West end) and that is why you will see many trains heading north with the number of what was a train heading south earlier in the day...a fact that has tripped many an (unaware) author when writing captions to S&D line photos.

 

There are many photos with captions stating that (say) "Here is train 1X01 heading to Bournemouth West" when - clearly - it is later in the day and the train is northbound. On odd occasions, the incorrect number will have been 'turned round' by the fireman, but many just remained in situ until the loco was back at Bath.

 

Brian

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_7066.jpg

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  • 3 months later...

Info for Siphon 208 - if you go to the derbysulzers site, you will find a mine of information including workings and headcodes.

If you specifically want a freight for Penzance, 7B34 the 1940 Bristol TM - Ponsandane (PZ goods yard with large loading bank platform - where there were still two withdrawn 100t oil tanks a couple of years ago).   I've never seen a photo of this freight; but running at 45mph non stop it would not have arrived in Cornwall until about 2240, and it almost certainly stopped at some of Taunton/ Exeter Riverside / Hackney (Newton Abbot), Tavistock Junction or Friary.    So likely a dawn arrival in PZ.     It might have included the majority of the Vanfits of fertiliser from Avonmouth to Truro.

 

7B31 the 1820 Plymouth Friary - Truro was normally formed with about 10 Presflos fro Chacewater, then vans (fertiliser for Truro?), sometimes grey oil tanks and some empty clay wagons and a few Slate Powder Presflos for St Blazey (Wadebridge pre 1978 .   Perhaps an SOV or two (12T pipe).     10' wheelbase opens very rare post mid 70s, same for mineral wagons on this train which I often saw laying over in the middle road at Plymouth.

 

7B33 the 1400 Exeter Riverside to Truro.   If you search for D1008 there is an April 1974 picture of it heading 7B33 at Plymouth.


Cornwall Railway Society is another good place for info.   There was a local trip working from Penzance to Roskear siding near Camborne to serve the Holman's compressor factory (lowfits ? with single axle compressors?), this closed in the 70s.   

 

In the up direction, several photos have been published of 6B59 Ponsandane to Exeter Riverside,  with Warships and 42+22 combinations.

Perhaps 7B59 sometimes.    

The afternoon St Blazey to Glasgow sometimes ran as 6S38, sometimes 7S38.

 

hope this helps!

 

 

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