Ramsgate Sands

[whart57]

On 08/11/2021 at 07:53, eastwestdivide said:

Ramsgate and Margate are featured on tonight’s (8 Nov) edition of Architecture the Railways Built, Yesterday channel, 8pm. Don’t know if the Harbour/tunnels will be included. 

 

There was a blooper. When he talked about the first station in Margate, the SER one, they put up a pic of the LCDR one, the predecessor of the 1926 one the guy was waxing lyrical about. That station was a twin of Herne Bay This is the one they should have put up

 

 

Incidentally the SER's Margate Sands is another overlooked station with decent potential for modelling particularly now so many SECR locos are available in OO.

[SouthernBlue80s]

On 07/11/2021 at 19:15, whart57 said:

 

Where would those commercial cargoes come from though? Victorian Thanet had no heavy industry, the Kent coalfield was another 60 years away and incoming cargo would not need onward rail transport. Thanet is after all quite small and compact. As you say, Dover was already well connected and had rails laid along the front to reach the berths on the far side of the harbour from the ferry terminals. Further up the Thames was Whitstable, albeit served by the SER, land goods for Canterbury at. The LCDR then had wharves at Faversham, Queenborough, Sheerness,  and on the Medway.

 

And then there was the passenger side. The arrival of the LCDR with a more direct route to London (all SER trains went via Redhill then, no Sevenoaks cut off yet) put the last nails in the coffin of the hoys from London. Margate would still get Thames pleasure steamers but the last leg round the North Foreland could be a distinctly unpleasant trip in a paddle steamer so it wasn't done.

 

Ramsgate's harbour revival was the result of increasing demand for roll-on-roll-off capacity on cross-Channel routes in the late 1960s. That and the hovercraft terminal, which is another story.

 

By coincidence I was actually standing on the stub of Hampton Pier this week. It was high tide so I don't know if the foundations of the pier are still there. Way back in the day when I was in short trousers, the foundations of that pier were a great place to mess about in at low tide. Spent many happy afternoons there. The tramway was short-lived because the oyster fishery was short-lived. The pier caused such a tidal scour that it wiped out the village of Hampton that had been built for the oyster bed workers. Disease also took out the oysters so the whole thing was a failure. The westward expansion of Herne Bay swallowed up Hampton and all that's left of the original is the pub and the stub of the pier. But the line does appear on old OS maps.

 

 

The phrase "the whole thing was a failure" is of course a cue for another alternative history for the purpose of railway modelling. I have a part-built 7mm scale Manning Wardle for just that reason .........

 

Very interesting. I have spent quite a bit of time Hampton way and never knew it had a tramway.

Edited November 14, 2021 by SouthernBlue80s

[whart57]

3 hours ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

 

Very interesting. I have spent quite a bit of time Hampton way and never knew it had a tramway.

 

If you ever walked on the west side pavement of Hampton Pier Avenue then you walked along the bed of the tramway track.

[RScore]

Gents- many thanks for your comments - I've learnt quite a bit more about the area I spent a good deal of my childhood in! And interesting to see the latest images of the station site, I've not been back for a few years now. Ok, back to the modelling .....

 

Before ballasting the track, it seemed best to do a couple of other things first..

 

One was to paint the track with sleeper grime, which helps to "hide" the over-scale size of the rails as well as give a more realistic finish. Before spraying, a light film of electrolube oil was applied to the railhead to prevent the paint 'taking' to the railhead and interfering with electrical conductivity. Having sprayed the track (carefully masking off the cliff and the platforms beforehand) I then cleaned the paint off the railhead with a rag and white spirit, followed by a test run of a loco on all areas to ensure electrical contact was good throughout (see first and second images). The test highlighted a few patches where a re-clean was needed and odd spots where the paint had dried hard on and had to be removed with a good old-fashioned thumbnail.

 

Second on the list is the platform edging. By default I prefer embossed plastikard for briick, but in this case clearances are tight. I failed to allow for the rodding on locos when cutting the ply platforms, using a coach to check clearances. Luckily I allowed anough extra tolerance such that all the locos in the current fleet don't appear to foul the platforms. So the platforms edges are being faced with 0.24mm brick card rather than embossed plastikard, which is approx 0.75mm thick.

 

The platforms are made with what is nominally 9mm ply. With the accent on the "nominally" bit. Some years ago I measured up 9mm ply as supplied and found it varied between 8.5 and 9.5 mm. Well, that was some years back. The "9mm ply" here is a shade under 8mm thick. I found it necessary to cut strips of brick card 7.5mm wide to ensure they were not "proud" of the ply platform surface. (see third image).

 

[whart57]

Interesting that in the week we mention the Whitstable oyster trade in this thread that we read of Southern Water's attempts to kill it off through letting raw sewage overflow the sluice at Swalecliffe. I wondered why I saw signs warning people not to eat shellfish from the beach at Hampton when I was there ten days ago.

[RScore]

The last few days has focussed on installing the semaphore signals. The first image shows one of the signals installed and operational ..... but getting there wasn't straighforward.

And there are four to install, labelled RS1 to RS4 - see image of control panel. Note that these are controlled by push-buttons, as per the instuctions. There are dire warniongs in the instructions not to use on-off switches as these can 'flood' the electronics with too much electric current and "may" (so the instructions say)  burn out the circuitry.

 

For "may" read "will". As I found out. 

 

I was keen to use off-the-shelf motorised signals as I really didn't feel up to making up a working semaphore from a kit in N scale. This does mean that the signals are to an LMS pattern rather than a typical Southern rail-built or concrete signal, But Dapol/Ratio don't do these in N, so LMS pattern it is. I can live with that.

 

I thought it a good idea to bench test the signals before installing them on the layout. For some reason, I got it into my head that the 16-Volt AC supply should be connected to the two yellow wires, rather than the black and red pair (see image 3). Alas, this was wrong. I managed to wreck two signals units before double-checking the instructions and found that I'd wired the AC power to the wrong wires and burnt out the circuitry. A costly mistake - as these signals are £30 each.

 

Image four shows the happy ending - all four signals wiired up, operational and showing a green aspect.

[RScore]

Not a huge amount was done in December but with Christmas festivities over modelling has re-started in earnest.

 

All of the platform surfaces have been prepared - as shown in image 1. The white edging has been done by welding down a narrow strip of styrene 20 thou thick and approx 2mm wide at each platform edge. This then presents a slightly raised edge to paint a white line on, and gives a fairly uniform width to the white line. Whilst I've brushed on a white line in OO scale without using this raised edge method, I didn't have the confidence to do a thin line in N scale of uniform width. The overall result is pleasing.

 

Ballasting is now in progress (image 2) using an applicator shown in the image. However, it's use will be limited. This applicator cannot be used alongside a platform face, and can't be used over pointwork.

 

After much fettling about, I finally plucked up the courage to glue the station buildings down. Images 3 and 4 show the buildings in place complete with the removable roof. Much to my relief the roof seems to sit down well. Where pavement meets roadway I've also painted the roadway in dark matt undercoat to represent tarmac, gluing down the building while the paint was still wet in an attempt to avoid a visible join where pavement meets roadway.

[RScore]

Most of the last few weeks have been spent ballasting (image 1). As mentioned before, the ballast spreader device only works on plain track and away from platforms & other lineside structures. So a lot of time has been spent sprinkling ballast. I'd like to say the whole process worked smoothly.

 

Alas, no.

 

Gluing down the ballast went smoothly on the first batch. i had a slightly dodgy ex-lens cleaner spray bottle that didn't work reliably. But it got the job done. Spray the track, mix up 50-50 PVA glue and water, add a drop or two of detergent and drop the solution on. Then I discovered a fresh empty lens cleaner bottle - the sprayer worked a treat, so used that. But when I dropped the PVA solution on, it kept forming globules.

At first, I thought this was down to not enough detergent (which reduces surface tension). So added more detergent and a spot more water. Still the globules kept forming. Incredibly frustrating. The air "turned blue", as the old saying has it.

 

It took me a while to figure out that I wasn't spraying enough water onto the ballast before applying the PVA solution.

So, after a generous re-spray of water, the PVA spread without forming globules. Reliably. More or less.

 

Also started this week was what appears to be a booking office, a wooden building at the country end of the station on the sea front side. Image 2 shows the outer walls under construction. The difficulty here was a lack of decent historic images. Image 3 shows one of the only two reference images I have  (the orange pencil points to this booking office). And it's not the best quality. It appears from the photo that the roof is hipped at the country end, but pitched at the London end. So I'm building it like that.

 

[RScore]

Progress has slowed on Ramsgate Sands due to house hunting but the last couple of days has seen progress on the roadway and station area fencing.

 

The first image shows the various pieces of pavement (30 thou plastikard) around the turntable end cut to shape and painted up ready for laying. It also shows the nearly-completed booking office building, which has had several paint jobs and is now only missing the Scalescenes sign board above the entrance.

 

The second image shows the pieces of painted-up SR concrete fencing and a stretch of pavement adjoining it alongside the Down Bay. Also painted up apart from a thin strip along one edge to allow plastic welding of the fence panels to the pavement surface. One of the learnings from 12 inches to the foot wagon restoration (at Mid-Hants and Swanage Railways) is that it pays to think about what order you paint various pieces in before you start. The same applies fo modelling. Here I had to work out an assembly & paint plan that was a balance between painting up items before fixing them to the layout and allowing for good bonding/glueing of the various pieces. There is also (just visbile in the image) a vertical strip of brick plastikard glued on to the seaward edge of the bay road and 3 - 4 mm proud of the surface. The fence panels will be plastic-welded to this as well as the pavement to give (hopefully) robust fencing that stays in place.  

 

The roadway is painted in dark grey undercoat. I add the pieces of pavement immediately after painting on the roadway to give a seamless join between the pavement and the road (image 3). 

[5BarVT]

Interesting that there’s only a run off to buffers on one platform.  Presumably the turntable had to be in place to run into the other platform.

Paul.

[RScore]

I write in haste as Ramsgate Sands is due for it's second public outing at Fordingbridge (Dorset) this coming Saturday 9th April, a show organised by the local Rotary club.

 

So as you might expect I've been busy getting it as ready as I can in the time available. Touching up paintwork in too many places to mention, for example.

 

Around the turntable (image 1) I've put in all the walls and filled the area around the TT with yard ballast frem John Smerdon. It looked a shade dark compared to the track ballast so I plan to cover much of this with greenery. I also tried a small sample elsewhere with 1 part household filler to 5 parts yard ballast, and this seemed ok. On as larger area it didn't work so well, as the white filler tends to separate from the dark yard ballast and cause lots of white patches to appear. Not so good. I've re-done part of the goods yard (see image 2) and this looks better - though that's not obvious from the image!

 

Image 3 shows the now-welded-in footbridge. Also in the image is the acrylic sheet now mounted around the layout to protect it at shows and in transit. Also nearly completed is a black polyester skirt attached with velcrose. The velcrose I hot-glued onto the polyester sheet - quicker than sewing it on (as I did many years ago to a sheet of black crimplene). Alas, I tried to get crimplete but no-one seems to sell it anymore - crimplete is highly crease-resistant.

 

[RScore]

Much has been done the last week or so in preparation for the Basingstoke show on March 11/12th.

 

As you can see from the first two images, I had a near disaster on my hands - the detachable station roof has decided to detach part of itself from the other part - lengthways. The second image gives you a clue as to how much remedial work was needed to fix it. I've since repainted it.

 

After fixing that, I could focus on adding "life" to the layout. The third image shows the first vehicle added on, secured on the layout by 2 x 8BA screws - a challenge in itself. Five more road vehicles have been added since.

 

The fourth image shows a small selection of the people added to the layout - now totalling 28 including an AA Man, and a photographer on a bridge. All fixed on with superglue on their feet (thank you Ian).

 

The fifth image shows the station lampposts after assembly and painting. I was slightly dismayed to find on arrival by post that these were kits - not ready assembled. They are fiddly to put together and fragile - but are now fixed firmly on the station platforms.

[whart57]

I see you have a Royal Blue coach outside the station. Presumably that's on the South Coast Express, a joint service between Margate and Bournemouth run by East Kent, Southdown and Royal Blue. There is a model of Chichester bus station out there that has the East Kent contribution in among all the lime green of Southdown buses.

 

When it comes to buses though what you really need is an East Kent "puffin", a Regent V with full front cab and sliding entrance door with reg numbers starting PFN - hence "puffin". These were pretty unique but were iconic for bus services on Thanet in the 1960s as nearly the entire class were allocated to Margate and Ramsgate sheds in the summer months. The Little Bus Company once had a resin kit and I've emailed them to ask whether it will ever be rerun. Otherwise, if you ever get the chance to acquire one, do so. For a bus enthusiast it means Thanet in the 60s.

 

[whart57]

I checked with the Little Bus Company and unfortunately they have sold out of Puffin kits and as yet no plans to reintroduce it. A shame really but that is the way things go.

[fulton]

How is the layout progressing? I liked this image from "Britain From Above", 1920.

Edited May 8, 2023 by fulton
added missing photo!

[Pacific231G]

On 14/03/2022 at 07:28, 5BarVT said:

Interesting that there’s only a run off to buffers on one platform.  Presumably the turntable had to be in place to run into the other platform.

Paul.

A year later but I've been wondering about this myself. I do have a possible explanation but am not sure of it.

Looking at the images of the terminus I've been able to find it appears that the station was worked with a separate up departure and down arrival side each with a bay (there was no passenger access between them) and there are no images of a train on the up platforms with a locomotive at the London end. There are though plenty of examples of both up platforms and the middle siding occupied by trains with locos at the London end.  This implies that on the down side no train would be backed towards the turntable whereas on the up platform that would be the norm with the trap siding ensuring that trains would never be backed into the turntable pit. On the Signalbox Diagram (i only have the SRS thumbnail) , there was also an elecric fouling bar (EFB) marked at the turntable end of the down platform presumably to prevent the TT being unlocked from that road when the down approach to it was occupied. The turntable is marked as  electrically controlled by sbx and I assume this refers to its locking not how its driven. 

The other oddity is that the three carriage sidings are only directly accessible from the down (arrivals) platforms. This implies that an arriving train would be propelled into the sidings by its own loco  and a train being drawn from the sidings would have to be pulled into the down platform (by a station pilot?) and then propelled into the tunnel in order to reach the up platforms where the train loco could then be attached (the station pilot then being able to make good its escape via the turntable. 

This 1905 map is congruent with the 1914 signal box diagram and, being a resort, it looks on busy days that trains would arrive in the morning and their coaches would be stored in the sidings clear of the platfoms while their locos went up the tunel to be serviced. As evening approached (with other non tripper trains arriving and departing)  the trains would be pulled out of the sidings and theit locos would arrive to take them out. images do show trains ready for departure on the two up platforms and a third, without its loco, on the centre road ready to move over to the main departure platform as soon as the train there had departed. Another image does show a train being drawn forward from the centre siding by a main line loco.

All this suggests an eminently modellable set of operations that may look a little unlikely but are completely true. 

Does anyone by any chance have a summer timetable for Ramsgate Harbour (aka Sands)  Station?

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Pacific231G