RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 The layout i am working to construct is a four track main line,Loft fitted at 22x14 and DCC,wanting live frog on and off so been looking into frog juicers to control polarity,has anyone used these much,like/dislike/any good or one better than another?? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2020 I have used the very affordable Gaugemaster BPDCCC80 equivalent to very good effect. Dead easy to install and does what it says on the tin. Real fit and forget kit. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: The layout i am working to construct is a four track main line,Loft fitted at 22x14 and DCC,wanting live frog on and off so been looking into frog juicers to control polarity,has anyone used these much,like/dislike/any good or one better than another?? I am certain there will be those who are for and against the use of frog juicers ( various threads on here have been discussed at length in the past ). I have certainly used them and very happy, the main ones I have used are the Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicers specifically HFJ003 which permits 6 frogs to operate from one board. There are others out there but this one is a fit and forget too, much like Ians experience with his preferred type. Edited April 17, 2020 by bgman 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted April 17, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, bgman said: I am certain there will be those who are for and against the use of frog juicers ( various threads on here have been discussed at length in the past ). I have certainly used them and very happy, the main ones I have used are the Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicers specifically HFJ003 which permits 6 frogs to operate from one board. There are others out there but this one is a fit and forget too, much like Ians experience with his preferred type. That one i have looked at,thanks for reply young fella 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I used the Tam Valley ones for some years on the various incarnations of Danemouth. Eventually both of them failed so I bit the bullet and started using the switches in the Cobalt motors instead. Dave 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Depending on how the turnouts are operated (typically type of motors used), they may already have switching on the motors, or the control switches, which can change the frog polarity. Thus, operating the turnout would change the frog. So juicers are, in those cases, an unnecessary expense. - Nigel 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted April 17, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Danemouth said: I used the Tam Valley ones for some years on the various incarnations of Danemouth. Eventually both of them failed so I bit the bullet and started using the switches in the Cobalt motors instead. Dave By years is it many or would you have expected more time,nothing last forever so was one or two or five plus say,thanks for the reply sir 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Switching the polarity using the switch in the point motor (is using a reasonable motor) is much more reliable and less damaging to wheel surfaces that from juicers - which rely on the short circuit to operate. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: By years is it many or would you have expected more time,nothing last forever so was one or two or five plus say,thanks for the reply sir About six years, it was odd that they failed within a couple of weeks of each other. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 3 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: The layout i am working to construct is a four track main line,Loft fitted at 22x14 and DCC,wanting live frog on and off so been looking into frog juicers to control polarity,has anyone used these much,like/dislike/any good or one better than another?? Used Tam Valley 6 way Juicers at both ends of my 24' layout controlling main line and FY entrances/exits. Rather expensive but the best bit if dosh I spent and they (touch wood) have worked perfectly and without fault for 3 years. Simples to install. Highly recommended. Phil 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 I agree with Mallard. All the points on my OO layout use Tam Valley frog juicers. They were simple to fit and have worked perfectly even since fitted - I’m not sure how long I’ve had them, but I think its about 8 years. The points they are fitted to are operated by a mix of manual (piano wire rod) and Peco solenoids. They get a great deal of use when I exhibit the layout as its a very busy terminus to fiddle yard design. On another layout I used Peco accessory switches attached to their solenoid point motors but after a while they became unreliable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Oldddudders said: I have used the very affordable Gaugemaster BPDCCC80 equivalent to very good effect. Dead easy to install and does what it says on the tin. Real fit and forget kit. The Gaugemaster ones seem to work fine on my HO Czech layout using Peco turnouts and SEEP solenoids. I have also fitted a couple on the N scale fiddleyard for Banbury when I added and extra loop. However, upon installing them on my new 009 layout they dont work well with shorter wheelbase locos even the Heljan Manning and Wardles despite all pickups on the pony wheels working properly. I have now swapped them for Tam Valley Frog Juicers and they work fine on the 009 as they have done on Banbury for 9 years at many shows. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, ColinK said: I agree with Mallard. All the points on my OO layout use Tam Valley frog juicers. They were simple to fit and have worked perfectly even since fitted - I’m not sure how long I’ve had them, but I think its about 8 years. The points they are fitted to are operated by a mix of manual (piano wire rod) and Peco solenoids. They get a great deal of use when I exhibit the layout as its a very busy terminus to fiddle yard design. On another layout I used Peco accessory switches attached to their solenoid point motors but after a while they became unreliable. I forgot to say that the points/crossings (latter using the Juicer) in the area are driven off-stage by Peco and Gaugemaster surface mounted simple solenoids, driven from a DCC Concepts feeder thingy called a DCS8 or something and an ancient H & M Flash Unit (huge thing with six outputs) that cost me £5 and Micro Switches. The other 'end' of the layout dealing with points to the FY isn't wired up yet, only the main line Points and crossings. P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 I've got about 40 points with Tortoise motors and I don't have a single juicer, the frogs* are all switched by the point motors. (*that includes adjacent diamond crossings as well. IMHO As long as you use motors with decent switches and if you are competent at wiring, juicers are a total waste of money. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, melmerby said: I've got about 40 points with Tortoise motors and I don't have a single juicer, the frogs* are all switched by the point motors. (*that includes adjacent diamond crossings as well. IMHO As long as you use motors with decent switches and if you are competent at wiring, juicers are a total waste of money. I would like to use Tortoise but my boards are not deep enough to make use of them hence using SEEPS which are as low as £3.95 these days. If I made the board framing deeper then the layout wouldn't fit in the car. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDMJ Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 7 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: The layout i am working to construct is a four track main line,Loft fitted at 22x14 and DCC,wanting live frog on and off so been looking into frog juicers to control polarity,has anyone used these much,like/dislike/any good or one better than another?? Silly question, but nobody seems to have asked: which track manufacturer you are using! If you are using Peco then Gaugemaster's DCC80s will help, but if you're using most other manufacturers of track, they've designed their points properly so that such is not necessary! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 46 minutes ago, roundhouse said: I would like to use Tortoise but my boards are not deep enough to make use of them hence using SEEPS which are as low as £3.95 these days. If I made the board framing deeper then the layout wouldn't fit in the car. I started with Seeps* but soon dumped them for something better. You can mount Tortoises (or Cobalts) on their side, I have a few in difficult places so fixed. *Actually I had a few H&M point motors but as they weren't still made getting enough wasn't going to be easy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, JohnDMJ said: Silly question, but nobody seems to have asked: which track manufacturer you are using! If you are using Peco then Gaugemaster's DCC80s will help, but if you're using most other manufacturers of track, they've designed their points properly so that such is not necessary! No The others haven't designed theirs properly, Peco have. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Another vote for Tam Valley hex frog juicers here. I've used them on peco 'n' scissors crossovers. Servos used for point motors. It makes wiring very easy. I'd use them again for sure. John. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, melmerby said: I started with Seeps* but soon dumped them for something better. You can mount Tortoises (or Cobalts) on their side, I have a few in difficult places so fixed. *Actually I had a few H&M point motors but as they weren't still made getting enough wasn't going to be easy. Even mounted sideways they still don't fit having tried to do that with one that a retailer lent me some years ago. My H & M 's have finally been replaced after around 30 years of use on Appledore with SEEP's 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Ah yes, Frog Juicers - the Marmite of model railways My US O Scale layout has 5 hand-built switches (turnouts, points, insert description of choice) which are manually thrown with Caboose Industries Ground Throws. Due to the spacing of the 5 switches around the layout (17ft x 8ft) I use Tam Valley Mono Frog Juicers - more expensive than one Hex Juicer, but avoids long wiring runs, which are not good practice for juicers; site them as close to the switches/turnouts/points/yadda-yadda-yadda as possible. Interestingly/weirdly, 2 Tam Valley Mono juicers are cheaper than a Double one. As an aside, in over 40 years in the hobby, and umpty-nine layouts, I have never used point motors, ever. Must've saved me far more over the years than my frog juicers cost 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said: Ah yes, Frog Juicers - the Marmite of model railways As an aside, in over 40 years in the hobby, and umpty-nine layouts, I have never used point motors, ever. Must've saved me far more over the years than my frog juicers cost Actually I have 54 turnouts all operated by DCC. Try throwing that many by hand. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, melmerby said: Actually I have 54 turnouts all operated by DCC. Try throwing that many by hand. Ah, sorry - where did I say "no layouts at all should use point motors"? No, I was just talking about my own situation - I've probably not used 54 turnouts in all my layouts put together! In fact that's given me a great idea for when I'm really bored during the lock down - I'll try and think back, list all my layouts, and work it out. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 I tried a frog juicer on my Fryers Lane layout; partly out of curiosity, partly out of laziness. I'm not sure if it was a result of the Roco Multimaus or the steel rail, but there is a noticeable arcing when locos run through the crossing vee. For that reason alone, I've no plans to use them again, I'll switch vee polarity through some other method. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 An interesting thread as I've just ordered 3 Gaugemaster BPDCCC80 to try on my new layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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