Frog Juicers,pros and cons,any opinions whos used these.

[melmerby]

I actually find the idea of a short circuit being used to initiate an action other than overload trip an anathema.

I rather like the idea of driving a train into a turnout set to the wrong direction causing power to shut down rather than swapping the power to suit.

It means you can't drive over a wrongly switched point and derail.

[F-UnitMad]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I rather like the idea of driving a train into a turnout set to the wrong direction causing power to shut down rather than swapping the power to suit.

It means you can't drive over a wrongly switched point and derail.

I rather like the idea of paying attention and setting the route correctly in the first place

 

[JST]

I use DCC Concepts ADS decoders what have frog power built in - job done! However, where I have use one ADS output to fire two sets of points (as in a crossover) I have used DCC80s without problem.

[Talltim]

I’ve used one on a diamond that’s not controlled by points and it worked well. Otherwise I’ve used the polarity switch on the tortoise point motors

[melvin]

I use Gaugemaster DCC 80. So simple to use. Cheap as Chips. ( With Cod of course)

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, melvin said:

I use Gaugemaster DCC 80. So simple to use. Cheap as Chips. ( With Cod of course)

I believe Gaugemaster to be located really quite close to the sea. And near a former railway swing-bridge. 

[Mallard60022]

23 hours ago, melmerby said:

I've got about 40 points with Tortoise motors and I don't have a single juicer, the frogs* are all switched by the point motors. (*that includes adjacent diamond crossings as well.

IMHO As long as you use motors with decent switches and if you are competent at wiring, juicers are a total waste of money.

Disagree with your rather disparaging statement and find it insulting.

It is unfair to dismiss the Juicers just because you don't use them matey. Perhaps you think this way because you have never seen them in action, others obviously do not and also do not dismiss them as a "total waste of money", even if they don't want to use them..

I used my Frog Switches  to deal with some complex crossings and point work where underboard point motors were 'a waste of money' and space was at a premium anyway.  Using cheap surface motors and some second hand ones I already had to hand and these Juicers was a very simple solution to an otherwise pain in the arse wiring problem. 

OK on a fairly simple layout, on a couple of portable boards that one can wire up beautifully from the underside then yes, decent motors, such as the DCC Concepts Omegas I use on all other points on the visible sections of the layout, would be fine and easy to wire.

[Oldddudders]

I have a box of a dozen unused Tortoises, simply because the location precludes their installation, or that of any other motor. Electronic gismos are a boon when you need them. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Disagree with your rather disparaging statement and find it insulting.

 

Each to their own.

I did emphasise it was my opinion, I didn't say you mustn't do it.

I just can't see a good reason if you have fitted a load of point motors with switches that can do the job to stick an extra electronic gizmo in circuit instead of connecting up some wire. (which I assume you still need to do anyway)

I too have some complex trackwork such as a scissors crossover connected to 2 double slips also a three way point connected to double slips, with frog switching all done by the switches on the motors.

[Sol]

I use Tam Valley as there was no room to fit motors below nor did I want to have them on top with some long throw rods going under from 1 to 6 tracks so I used Peco side mounted motors that just fitted in between the ladder of turnouts and baseboard edge.

[bgman]

4 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

It is unfair to dismiss the Juicers just because you don't use them matey. Perhaps you think this way because you have never seen them in action, others obviously do not and also do not dismiss them as a "total waste of money", even if they don't want to use them..

 

Totally agree, having tried all sorts of ways to ensure the frog does as it is told I finally settled on the Frog Juicers because it suited the way I now work. Maybe some of us are fortunate or happy enough to be able to afford that extra for a good product that is a fit and forget. 

Some enjoy fiddling and faffing with 'lectrics which is fine, I don't particularly, and its allowed me more time to concentrate upon other modelling projects. 

I also happen to like watching the board blinking at me ! 

 

I always knew when the OP initially asked the question the thread would become slightly control-versial !

 

Hey ho !

 

Stay safe and well life is too short.

Edited April 18, 2020 by bgman

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Whilst frog juicers don't make an impossible job possible, they do undoubtedly make a complicated job simpler, ie; a double junction.

They don't go out of adjustment as micro switches can, and for those with less confidence in the soldering and wiring department they can be a useful addition to the armoury.

 

Mike.

[Trofimow]

I've standardised on the Gaugemaster juicers for my current layout build, (30+ fitted so far).

 

I find them easy to use and they just work every time, no fiddling or adjusting required. I've not noticed any arcing when they operate.

 

I use servos for point operation and these are for my requirements the simple and reliable solution to frog switching.

 

Other options are available...

[Andy Reichert]

18 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I have a box of a dozen unused Tortoises, simply because the location precludes their installation, or that of any other motor. Electronic gismos are a boon when you need them. 

 

Golly. That's eleven failed learning experiences

 

Andy

[Oldddudders]

4 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

Golly. That's eleven failed learning experiences

 

Andy

I do have about 10 that have been in use over a decade, though. 

[TheKeg]

We’ve been using the Tam Valley frog juicers on three of our exhibition layouts, for the last seven years, in a variety of gauges. We have yet to have a failure on any of them (touch wood :-) ). We have also never seen any evidence of arcing, and any damage caused by arcing, on any of our track and stock. We have also used the gauge-master ones as well, and so far have had no issues with them either. 
in the past, we used all kinds of switches for controlling frog polarity and unfortunately at some point they have all failed; usually during an exhibition. Since changing to frog juicers we have had no problems with operation and reliability of our frog polarity control.

The other bonus on the dual frog juicers is they can be used to control the polarity on return loops and turntables. I believe two outputs on the hex frog juicer can also be paired to perform this task.

 

I for one would always thoroughly recommend them to anyone for any type of dcc controlled layout, but each to their own.

[Junctionmad]

We use about 40 frog juicers , ( tam valley ) on our big club layout 

 

works perfectly , and we have just removed the last few switched by the cobalts 

 

let’s put to bed some nonsense 

 

FJs don’t short the track , they detect current rise  and switch at around 1,6-2A. 
there is No arcing or wheel or track damage using a FJ 

it is a completely acceptable means of switching frogs and for complex track it makes such wiring very simple 

in fiddle yards , where we have operators making up trains , point motor switched frogs called many shorts as operators push a coach back briefly onto the frog , Fjs removed all that 

 

if you want to use them , there are great and switching current using solid state switches is preferable to the switches in point motors 

 

A MERG member has released a juicer that doesn’t need the current to rise at all , if you are against that sort of things.