It's all Greek to me! - My first (ever) layout which is based on the Greek railways

[Devonbelle]

Very very interesting thread and subject matter. Well done with progress to date. Like me Manos you’ve chosen to model something less usual (I’m doing Croatian O gauge). Your thread has really got me interested in Greek railways and the locomotives - I like the railway architecture too. Keep going and I will look forward to further updates. Paul 

[manosfromgreece]

So I gave a try during the weekend to more ballasting. I used the weathered Peco ballast near the area of what will be a maintenance / parking area for the local shunting loco and a mix of that with the Woodlandand scenics for the rest of the areas especially near the points. Mainly I'm experimenting to see what I can do with the points.

I'll give it a go with the points after making sure that the PVA / water mix glue has thoroghly dried after a day or two.

 

Further to that I do try to visualize the tunel area on the right side of the layout. For that reason I downloaded from the Paper Model Factory group on facebook a Metcalfe type of kit of Greek tunels and support walls that Nondas Moyzes designed and offers free for download. That was extremely time consuming for me without previous experience but at the same time extremely satisfiyng of the final product.

I'm not sure if I'll use them on the layout or try to go a different way, but at the moment this is great help to me on trying to decide how to proceed. In the same place, the same designer offers kits for Greek wagons that I'm tempeted to try to build and see how they look and how they run. 

But more on my next post.

 

[manosfromgreece]

So my first trial on ballasting the points went well I'm happy to report! Everything seems to work as it should on all five points I did try with my last remaining ballast. I have to wait now for the delivery of more ballast in order to complete the ballasting in the scenic part of the layout. I hoovered with the sock trick and will reuse what was not glued down properly. Somehow I think that I prefer the Peco ballast than the Woodland Scenics, it works better for me but I need to try more. I'm still undecided on whether to remove and re-apply the lighter coloured that I put on the station siding.

I gave them a thorough test with a couple different locos just to make sure that all rails and point frogs are clear from ballast. In a few places I had just to clear with a pass or two with the bland side of a knife.

In the meantime I try to work with other little things. Getting more experience with painting is big on my list as I'm still intimidated but making progress.

This will be something like a reception / guard on the entrance of the factory. I'll soon start on doors and windows.

Next on was a Woodland scenics kit for creating  rock faces. I painted them first with a dark grey and next gave a try with burnt amber. They need mode work. Unshure yet on how the hill side will look and if these will be used at all.

And this is how the colours changed after drying in just half an hour. I have a lot to learn...

But more on my next post.

Edited May 7, 2020 by manosfromgreece

[manosfromgreece]

So the other day Neil Sutton posted some wonderfull pictures to this thread of which I was thankful! But this brought up memories and with a little search I was able to dig out a few pictures that we took with my wife on a day probably back in 1998. I didn't realize I had this pictures with me in UK, I thought they were back in Greece and I found them by accident yesterday!

An engine shed full of Adtranz. I have one of those and speaking with a lot of people on FB where I also posted this picture it appears that these engines where first brought in Greece in 19/3/1998. So probably the time frame of the layout needs to be adjusted for the late 90s.

The V221s where last used to Greece in 1998 and withdrown from service when the Adtranz fleet became operational. These engines were later sold (as scrap) and returned to Germany where they were modernized and used by private railway companies. I have one of these (Roco) under the DB colours which I'll try to make as Greek as I can...

An Adtranz (red/white), and Alco (orange) and an Electroputere Craiova (blue/Grey). I have an Alco (Mabar) but with Renfe colours that I'll try to make Greek...The Romanian Electroputere Craiova I don't believe is available yet but I think somebody is trying to make a 3d printed one. 

Just a more detailed picture of the turntable. This is in the Agios Ioannis Rentis depot near to Piraeus - Athens.

This is the Piraeus port train station and I post this picture here as with John (Allegneny 1600) we were discussing the other day about the cars of they day. This is my wife's (new at the time) silver Ford FIesta and in the picture there also a gold Simca Horizon and a blue Yugo. You can notice the yellow post box, the charecteristic Greek kafenio (coffee shop) chairs and the Station sign ΠΕΙΡΑΙΑΣ - PIREAS (as is pronounced in Greek the name of Piraeus).  

But more on my next post.

Edited May 10, 2020 by manosfromgreece

[Philou]

Kalispera Manos,

 

Just found your thread, and good luck in your endeavours. I've never seen a Greek railway before, so all the more interesting.

 

I've been reading of your problems regarding the ballasting, and quickly reading through, I may have missed the details of how you did the ballasting. What I can say though, is that the photograph further up the thread would seem to me that you have used too much PVA solution and it has flooded and washed out the ballast.

 

Everyone will have their way of doing things and ideas do vary, but this is the way I did it, and it seems to hold good, especially of my grandsons layout that has been moved many times. As someone said earlier (Allegheny I think) ballasting is rather tedious - I don't mind too much as the results are worth the while:

 

I start doing the edges (the shoulders first) - it doesn't matter whether you left or right, except if you're ballasting double track - in which case I do the outer edges first - again extreme left or right, it doesn't matter.

 

Using dry ballast in a small cup (I find a used yoghurt tub ideal - especially the Greek ones -yes, really) and slowly pour towards the rail. When a length has been done - say 500mm - with a finger, run and press down between the edges of the sleepers so the ballast lays flat between the sleepers. With a small painters brush (1/2" or 12mm wide) work the ballast into a slope shape down towards the edge (known as the 'cess' here). You should just cover the edge of your underlay and form a slope of about 45°. Any excess you can recycle or add if there's any missing. You may have to repeat the operation to get the slope looking even - it comes with practice.

 

Once happy, with a fine spray (I used a gardeners plant spray that contains about 500ml of water) using water AND some washing detergent/liquid soap, carefully spray over what you have done. Too close, you risk blowing your ballast away - been there, done that. Once wet - not too much - damp is what you want, you can now use your 50/50 water/PVA mix with again a drop or two of washing-up liquid. I use an eye dropper for this - your local pharmacist may give you one (I paid €1 for mine). Don't rush this - drop by drop you add the PVA just so it wets the ballast but not as much as it your photo. You have to work fairly quickly as the damp ballast may start to dry out - which is why you work in small sections.

 

Repeat for the other shoulder. When that has started to dry, you can than do the section between the rails in exactly the same way - dry ballast, finger press, brush off excess, damp, wet and let dry. Rinse and repeat until finished. Leave the point work until last.

 

In the case of double track, I make a slight depression between the parallel tracks and I do it one go.

 

When you come to the point work, take your time. Again, dry ballast, carefully working it towards the frog and the blades, brushing any excess AWAY from the blades and the tie-bar (the moving part of the point). Don't worry if some gets in between as you can flick it out as you mentioned with the back of a knife or fine screwdriver, once it's all dry. Top tip for you, before the PVA has dried keep moving the points back and forth so they don't stick.

 

You WILL need to check that no stray ballast has crept up the sides of the rails nor caught under or behind your point blades. No easy solution to that - it happens. It's a case of not over-wetting. Just a case of cleaning with your knife or screwdriver at the end before painting.

 

Looking good,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Joseph_Pestell]

There is a thread somewhere here with a superb N gauge Greek layout based iirc on Piraeus. But I think it must be three years of so since he posted anything.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[manosfromgreece]

3 hours ago, Philou said:

Kalispera Manos,

 

It's a case of not over-wetting. Just a case of cleaning with your knife or screwdriver at the end before painting.

 

Philip

Hi Philip,

you are tottaly right, I most probably have been over wetting the ballast and on my latest try that I have been a little more cautious about, it I think I have done better. I'm waiting for a new delivery of ballast (since due to lock down I can't just drive to my local model shop) to try and finish all the ballasting so I can move on with other things.

Many thanks for your comment,

 

Manos

[manosfromgreece]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

There is a thread somewhere here with a superb N gauge Greek layout based iirc on Piraeus. But I think it must be three years of so since he posted anything.

 

 

Thanks for that Joseph, I was not aware of that thread and I was very impressed on what I read.

Kind regards,

Manos

[Neils WRX]

Just read through the thread mentioned above, a really interesting build I wonder what happened to it.

 

Going back to this thread, I never went round the depot at Athens only the one in Thessi. I do remember it took ages to get a photo permit!!

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Neil

 

[manosfromgreece]

So I have been test running trains in the last few days and working in various bits here and there,

 

 

I'm in a phase now that I need to set tasks and priorities as I'm feeling lost and can't decide what needs be done next. Is that something you do? How do you plan on your next steps? Is there somewhere a list that you work around? Your input would be apreciated!

By looking at the last few seconds of the video you can observe that as soon as I switch the points, the siding is left without current. This would be expected as I use insulofrogs but I have used feeder lines that are all (supposedly) connected to the main. And since there are more than one, obviously something is wrong there and I need to check all my connections...

But more on my next post.

[Paul H Vigor]

On 23/04/2020 at 20:09, manosfromgreece said:

So there must me something and somewhere for my shunting loco to shunt. Realizing that was an important next step that brought together a little more thinking with regards the scenery set up of the layout.

So here are two sidings with two sidings each. The left one close to the layout edge is going to be a local parking and maintenance for the shunting loco while the other one to the right a siding to a factory represented here with the foam pieces. The single mainline is the center track.

As already said, it is important to me that memories are taking part in the story that the layout represents, Memories, story, these are words immediately associated to me with family of which Greeks are well known to keep close and big! So this is about the time I paid tribute to my great grandfather who was an engineer. In his village on northern Greece, after the war, he single-handedly build a factory that created and distributed electriciy to the village and other two close ones. After years of operation, he sold this factory to the state owned electricity company. He then proceeded to make his next factory of which I have fade memories as a child in the early 70s. Initialy a water operated and then an electric operated floor mill that every farmer in the wider area would bring his corn or wheat to be milled. After that was done, his son - my great uncle, would load it to his big mercedes lorry to return in sacks. It was a big house size factory and there was not any rails nearby, but this is just a minor detail... Probably I will be building something resembling the early years of the factory operating still with water so I can use the pipes to hide the hole that leads to the backside of the scenery part of the layout. 

But more on the next post.  

Hi Manos,

I was very interested to hear about your great grandfather making electricity for his community. I visited an old olive oil soap factory at Kardamyli/Καρδαμύλη back in 2002. This factory generated electricity - the first in the district - using steampower. Steam was generated in big watertube boilers. I wrote an archaeological paper that you might be able to find and read. Enjoying watching your model railway develop!

All best wishes,

Paul

-----

The Association for Industrial Archaeology

industrial-archaeology.org › AIA-News-124-Spring-2003

PDF

An olive oil soap factory complex at Kardamyli, ... of the factory upon Kardamyli and environs must have been ... INDUSTRIAL ARCHAEOLOGY NEWS 124 3 ...

[Allegheny1600]

56 minutes ago, manosfromgreece said:

 

I'm in a phase now that I need to set tasks and priorities as I'm feeling lost and can't decide what needs be done next. Is that something you do? How do you plan on your next steps? Is there somewhere a list that you work around? Your input would be apreciated!

 

Hi Manos,

I like to see your trains running, that is always a big boost to the ego, mojo, whatever! Any teething troubles can be solved in due course, that should be nothing to worry about.

To answer your question regarding working to a kind of list, I got this idea from my British H0 modelling friend, Richard @47137 - here is my list from my Prussian layout Leberecht;

"Leberecht
Project Management

Level 1 – Basic Railway

Baseboard Ö
TraverserÖ
Backscenes (front Ö & rear) - I may never do this!
Track bed Ö
Wiring – first fix Ö
Trackwork - initial Ö
Trackwork - detailing (point lanterns, control wires etc) 
Points control Ö
Kadee magnets Ö
Board crossing fixing Ö
Wiring – second fix Ö
Lighting rig Ö
Formers to transport baseboards.
Under baseboard protection.

Level 2 – Physical Decisions and Landscape

General arrangement and edge profiles Ö
Roads Ö
Locating areas for major models Ö
Surface infill and shaping Ö
Primers and initial colouring Ö
Ballasting Ö
Surface finishes - roads and paved areas Ö Doug wants to redo these.
Surface finishes - grassed and natural areas Ö Ditto in places.
 

Level 3 – Major Models

Quarry Ö
Mature trees - check main types on Luneburg heath. Ö
Station building & platform Ö
Goods shed  replaced by loading platform Ö
Loco shed and coaling area Ö
Turntable Ö
Signal box Ö
 

Level 4 – Detailing

Foot crossing - where?
Fences ? - Possibly rendered superfluous by the stone walling.
Road signs and markings? Do we need any? What would they look like?
Road vehicles Ö
Figures Ö
Signals Ö Not yet working
Small trees, shrubs, other plants
Debris, clutter, etc
Layout name on fascia
Safety barrier on T/T winder.
Buffer stops - make from scratch.

 

Level 5 - Rolling Stock

Pretty much all locos, coaches and wagons are acquired now. Ö
Tiny bit of weathering on locos & coaches.
Heavier/mixed weathering on wagons.
Make loads for stone wagons.
Overhaul/clean all locos.
IF keeping Kadees, make brass axles for any stock that gets shunted. Possibly also exchange any steel weights.

 

The Ö indicates said item is purchased and in my possession! 
The Ö indicates this item is completed."

 

Sorry! The formatting has been lost, the Ö should be either a red or black tick (alt 251) (actually a square root symbol) and some text being red to indicate it still needs to be done.

I hope this helps,

John.

[manosfromgreece]

1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said:

I hope this helps,

John.

Hi John,

it helps in more ways you can think. Many thanks for that, I always appreciate your help!

Manos

[manosfromgreece]

1 hour ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Hi Manos,

I was very interested to hear about your great grandfather making electricity for his community. I visited an old olive oil soap factory at Kardamyli/Καρδαμύλη back in 2002. This factory generated electricity - the first in the district - using steampower. Steam was generated in big watertube boilers. I wrote an archaeological paper that you might be able to find and read. Enjoying watching your model railway develop!

All best wishes,

Paul

-----

The Association for Industrial Archaeology

industrial-archaeology.org › AIA-News-124-Spring-2003

PDF

An olive oil soap factory complex at Kardamyli, ... of the factory upon Kardamyli and environs must have been ... INDUSTRIAL ARCHAEOLOGY NEWS 124 3 ...

Hi Paul,

many thanks for your comment, I'll certainly look for that paper, Kardamyli is a very interesting place that we have visited many times over the past. Keep safe!

Manos

[manosfromgreece]

So I have been busy today messing with the layout and doing various little things here and there. First of all, I addressed the problem with the power feeders to the sidings that I realized they didn't provide connection as they supposed to. In reality the problem was small and easy to identify although it took sometime to rectify.

Somehow in the front siding I have had used the blue quick connectors instead of the red ones that I have used in all other connections of the layout. Probably I have had run out of reds or I couldn't find them back when I installed them. As you can see in the above picture, the thin wire of the feeder "bites" to the metal connector but apparently in some cases it didn't make contact due to a remaining very thin layer of the plastic insulation. I did replace all the blue connectors with red ones that are to be used with smaller size wires and the problem was rectified as seen below.

Further to that, I did work a little on the right side of the layout where the tunel under the hill will be. Using a sharpie and the longest coach I had available, I marked both sides of the minimum safe distance to the tunel sides as the radious of the adjacent turn is quite small.

 

Last but not least, I worked with the new additions to the fleet. These items were bought used and I believe they belonged to another member of the forum, Baz  Ward who had Megalo Horio and who sadly passed away. I have not had the chance of knowing him or even seeing his layout but at least I hope that a day will come that some of his fleet will run on my layout.

This is a Renault diesel railcar ABJ-9 by electrotren in OSE colours.

These are three Interfrigo refrigerated wagons, similar to was quite frequent in Greek railroad.

All the wagons are weathered and the railcar has some minor damages that I hope to rectify soon. As I need anyway to install a decoder and I had to open it, I thought of giving it a try on some customization.

So the idea here is to paint the cabin with colours that matched the prototype, install internal lighting and of course a driver and passengers. This is my first try ever and I started by applying a white primer before masking and trying with colours. Time will tell what I'll achieve!

But more as usual on my next post.

[manosfromgreece]

I don't know the reason why, but the desire of acquiring this Renault railcar was something I now realize was important to me. In general I liked the shape of the model but there are others out there that I like more and still don't have, and this is not a "problem" as it was for me to get this specific one.

So I have had a discussion with my brother that remind me of good memories of a family day trip to Edessa city with the famous waterfalls in the north of the country in the very early 1970's. Apparently this trip was from Thessaloniki to Edessa and back with the Renault railcar.

Picture from: https://www.e-kalfakis.gr/electric-trains-locomotives-1/87-railbus-renault-9,ose,-p-6761.html?language=en

 

The good memories were touching and even brought to my mouth the taste of the fresh cherries that my father bought in a kiosk just out of the station in a handmade traditional basket made from reeds like the picture below.

Picture from: https://www.spititoumeliou.gr/product/παραδοσιακό-χειροποίητο-καλάθι-από-κ/

But more on my next post.

 

[manosfromgreece]

So today I did try to finish up with the painting of the inside of the railcar. I masked as best as I could...

and then painted the chairs blue as this is what I remember them to be.  

I'm happy with the result and happy that I found the courage to make the attempt. I did install and programmed a decoder and now I'm only waiting for my passengers to arrive so as to (install) sit them and close the model.

I did continue with the ballasting too. I mixed a couple of different ballast products I had in stock so as to try and give a varriety to the scenic part and gave another try.

This time I did a better clean of the ballast on top of the rails and used a pipette instead of a syringe to apply the pva glue mix. This time I did add both a little fairy and IPA along with the water. I did apply less than my previous attempts but more targetted with the pipette. I think there is a huge difference for the better this time but I'll be sure as soon as it dries. I think having a better control with the pipette rather than with the syringe made a lot of difference.

At last I'm having a rethink on how to create the cement station platforms.

Initially I was considering to make them out of polysterine pieces but I did try painting one to see how it would look and I don't like it. It is the bubbly surface that even after painting with a very thick coat of acrylic paint doesn't look conviencing.

I'll have a try with a piece of hardboard to see whether this with some scratching and painting might look closer to the real thing.

But more on my next post.

 

 

[fezza]

Great to see a Greek model railway.  It would be interesting to know more about your Greek rolling stock.  There never seems to be much commercially available.  One of the model shops on Ippokratous, Athens seemed to have some when I last went but I was in Athens for work so I didn't get chance to investigate further.

 

Concrete is notoriously difficult to model.  Some US modellers have used photographs of concrete surfaces, manipulated them on a computer to get the right size and then glued the final image onto to cardboard or thin plywood.  I think the key is not to have a completely uniform grey surface - you need to try to represent the black sections, cracks and imperfections if you can.

 

Looking forward to seeing this develop.

 

 

 

 

[Vecchio]

Great stuff Mano! And you are fast as well. Took me almost 4 years to get my layout ready...

I spent weeks in Greece during my last employment but I had never the chance to use a train other than the metro in the capital. I was mainly in Lamia and our factory there had a train station very close to it (Agia Marina). On my way from there to Athens I always drove along a line which has started with electrification but because of the recession the work stopped. Just at my last visit I could see some progress.  That's the problem with business trips. You see something but normally there is no time to look at it closer. 

Looking forward to further progress!

 

Vecchio

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Manos,

Great work on the ABJ railcar, it will look so much better with the interior colours and passengers. It's a shame you never got to meet Baz Ward, he was a lovely chap, very helpful and friendly. As you can see by his vehicles, he was a good modeller too so you've done well to get some of his stuff.

I would have liked some but I was too slow and anyway, I don't have any spare cash, never mind!

 

Hi Vecchio,

I believe the electrification is now complete between Athens and Thessaloniki and the electric locos of class 120 are actually in use, at last! I think the OSE is also testing some Italian Pendolino trains but I don't know if that is a 'go' yet?

Next stop for the electrification (and standard gauge): Patras.

Cheers,

John.

[manosfromgreece]

27 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

 

I believe the electrification is now complete between Athens and Thessaloniki and the electric locos of class 120 are actually in use, at last! I think the OSE is also testing some Italian Pendolino trains but I don't know if that is a 'go' yet?

Next stop for the electrification (and standard gauge): Patras.

Cheers,

John.

HI John and Vecchio,

as John says the double electricified main line is fully in use now and the single mountainous (which I'm inspired off and try to model) between Thiva and Domokos is only sporadicaly in use especially now under the Covid19 situation. There was a lot of protests especially around the Bralos area not to let the line neglected and before the pandemic they had achieved in having a local train from Lamia.

As you know Greek railways have now been privatised and the company that runs the trains offering the service is called TRAINOSE and it is owned now by the Italian FSI. The infrastracture and the rolling stock is still owned by OSE that is public owned and offers the use for a fee. 

Currently there are a few more companies renting from OSE rolling stock but offer only delivery services rather than passenger services.  

Trainose is now getting their own rolling stock (five trains) fom mother company FSI which are some older Italian Pendolinos that are currently renovated in what finally will be supposedly an almost new class. Before the pandemic they were supposed to arrive in Greece before the end of the year but I don't know what is the current schedule. 

Manos

[manosfromgreece]

16 hours ago, Vecchio said:

I was mainly in Lamia and our factory there had a train station very close to it (Agia Marina).

 

Vecchio

 

It is a small world Vecchio. My wife is from Lamia and whenever in Greece we make sure to visit family there.

Agia Marina is a favorite local place to go out especially during summer! 

Let me know if you ever return, I'll get the latest insider information on where to or not to go!

Manos

[Vecchio]

Yes there are restaurants direct at the seafront and one is a bit further out, close to the railway crossing (Avra). There is a small beach, I used to go there after a long day in the factory. 

Unfortunately I will never return as I have been laid off last year.... 

 

Italian owned railway? Hope it works better than in their home country. I worked 11 years in Milan and used the train (FS - state railway) to go to work. Absolute terrible service. Always crowded apart from August (Ferragosta - Milan is at the beach...).  In the summer the aircon is not working, in the winter the heating is not working. There is always a door not in service, as long as they put a note on it - fine, but once I went to the next station and 2 of the doors didn't open and I couldn't manage to go into the next carriage in time. The windows (and the rest) are dirty and sometimes dark because of graffiti overspray. OK, the monthly ticket from Carnate-Usmate to Milano Greco Pirelli was unbelievable cheap. And so was the parking at the station.  No further moaning, I loved Italy. And I learned an additional language. I just moved to the UK from there as my family was no longer happy. Didn't help, my British wife divorced me in 2011....

 

OK, back to the subject. Looking forward to see more of your layout.

 

 

[manosfromgreece]

The postman brought me today my order of sitting passengers so I had to see what was there and start putting them into the railcar.

Bought from the well known auction site I paid 2.5£ for 100 of them (sitting as I already had the standing ones) and these were in six different colours and each colour in three different poses both for men and women.

I did try not to overdo it but also not to let the railcar looking empty. 

I had to add a standing child running up and down the railcar...

...and of course a ticket inspector preparing to make his run. This one I had to paint blue as per the colours of OSE (Greek railroads) at the time. I installed also a driver but I forgot to take a picture of him. Probably because I had to abutate him in order to fit his chair...

I then temporarily closed the railcar and had a run around the layout to check on the instalation of the decoder.

Everything is ok and I'm waiting now for some leds to install internal lights. I'm considering changing also the buffers to something closer to the prototype if I can find or make.

The postman also brought the red quick connectors I needed to finish the connection of the dropper lines to the main so now all rails provide current to the rolling stock. I do get the odd stop in a few places but I believe this will be sorted with the proper cleaning of the rails.

At last I vacuumed all the rails as I have now ballasted completely the scenic part of the layout. Obviously there are a few points in need of a touch up as shown in the picture of the railcar above but this will be done during the installation of the platforms.  

But more on my next post.

[manosfromgreece]

So today I thought of experimenting on what the hilly side of the layout would be. You might remember this picture from some time ago:

The concept in this picture is three or four different levels with houses, tavern, etc with a single file road leading over the tunnel entrance and then a narrow path to the top of the hill where the chappel stands which is a very typical Greek image.

Today this is version one with the rocky tunnel entrance and the rocks on the side of the hill. Probably going along with the idea of the army radar camp installation on the top of the hill rather than the chappel. This will find it's place nearby the station which is also something quite common in Greece.

Version two is with a stone entrance and a mix of rock and dirt on the hill sides.

Version three is the above without the rocks.

I'm browsing around to see how all this hill formation should be held together. Probably I'll go forward with packed polysterine pieces sticked together with glue gun, then plaster cloth and then some additional plaster for the formations. Any hot tips you may offer would be appreciated.

But more as always on my next post.