Backdrops

[Vistisen]

One of the threads I follow avidly on RMWEB is this one https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67-how-realistic-are-your-models-photo-challenge/ Some of the photos there are superb, some og the models are amazing, and when the two combine to be a superb photo of an amazing model…

The importance of the backdrop is often what makes or breaks the illusion of reality for me.  Some times the flow of the eye from 3D Model to 2D background is seamless, But I suspect that sometimes the camera positioning has a large part to play and if the same picture was taken from a different angle then eye-line would become distorted. My own model which is progressing (too) slowly will soon need a backdrop. I hope that at some point I will again be able to visit the UK to take panorama photos using my phones camera.

But I want some inspiration, so I want to start a thread specifically as a sub-set of the ‘How realistic are your models photos challenge. This time I would see three photos in each post, where the backscene plays a major role:

·         one from the angle that works best,

·          one with shot of the same scene where it is least convincing.

·         And the third taken looking along the backscene to show how it is integrated into the model
 

My hope is that there will be a number of posts where the difference is between the optimum and the ‘worst case’ is relatively small, and that from that we can all see how to achieve better results in the future.

On a different, but related note. Given that flat screens have dropped massively in price, has anyone experimented with a video background?

 

[The Johnster]

A 2D backdrop can never seamlessly integrate visually with a 3D model, except at a particular 'sweet spot' where the viewpoint exactly matches the position the backdrop photo is taken from or assumed position it is painted from.  The best backdrop I have seen on a layout is the 'misty marshland on a cold and dull damp day' effect of Arun Quay', which is about as 'non committal' as it gets.

 

My own backdrop is 3 dimensional; my South Wales Valleys prototype lends itself to a precipitous mountain slope directly off the back of the layout, disappearing beyond the range of the layout lighting.    It consists of several sheets of grass scenic mat mounted at an angle of about 70 degrees with some scenic treatment.   The scenic break into the fy is simply a sheet of matt black card with a train size hole in it at track level.  The lighting is arranged to draw one's eye away from it and highlights a road bridge and a pipe bridge, the road bridge angled away from the viewer on the scenic side.  Trains sort of disappear from your immediate awareness, and appear from under the road and pipe bridges.  It works for me!

 

At the other end of the layout should be at least a suggestion of a mining village, and probably one day there will be, but for now it is a blank off-white wall.  Again, the lighting avoids mentioning this as far as possible, and your eye is drawn to the various little detail cameos of the footpath to the station entrance, and the goods depot.  Even when the village eventually appears, the lighting will be low key.

[CF MRC]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A 2D backdrop can never seamlessly integrate visually with a 3D model, except at a particular 'sweet spot' where the viewpoint exactly matches the position the backdrop photo is taken from or assumed position it is painted from.  The best backdrop I have seen on a layout is the 'misty marshland on a cold and dull damp day' effect of Arun Quay', which is about as 'non committal' as it gets.

 

My own backdrop is 3 dimensional; my South Wales Valleys prototype lends itself to a precipitous mountain slope directly off the back of the layout, disappearing beyond the range of the layout lighting.    It consists of several sheets of grass scenic mat mounted at an angle of about 70 degrees with some scenic treatment.   The scenic break into the fy is simply a sheet of matt black card with a train size hole in it at track level.  The lighting is arranged to draw one's eye away from it and highlights a road bridge and a pipe bridge, the road bridge angled away from the viewer on the scenic side.  Trains sort of disappear from your immediate awareness, and appear from under the road and pipe bridges.  It works for me!

 

At the other end of the layout should be at least a suggestion of a mining village, and probably one day there will be, but for now it is a blank off-white wall.  Again, the lighting avoids mentioning this as far as possible, and your eye is drawn to the various little detail cameos of the footpath to the station entrance, and the goods depot.  Even when the village eventually appears, the lighting will be low key.

Any pictures of this?

 

Tim

[SD85]

There is a trend nowadays for printed photographic backscenes on quite a few exhibition layouts, but my general observation is that they don't quite seem to work. They are almost too detailed and distract from the rest of the model. Generally on a model the vaguer the background the better it works.

Edited April 20, 2020 by SD85

[The Johnster]

59 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Any pictures of this?

 

Tim

Check out my layout thread, 'South Wales Valleys in the 1950s' on Layout Topics, Tim.  It's work in progress, so be gentle with the criticism...

[Joseph_Pestell]

6 minutes ago, SD85 said:

There is a trend nowadays for printed photographic backscenes on quite a few exhibition layouts, but my general observation is that they don't quite seem to work. They are almost too detailed and distract from the rest of the model. Generally on a model the vaguer the background the better it works.

 

I agree with you about this. There is a solution by way of dulling down the brightness in Paint or similar software before printing it.

[AY Mod]

11 minutes ago, SD85 said:

There is a trend nowadays for printed photographic backscenes on quite a few exhibition layouts, but my general observation is that they don't quite seem to work. They are almost too detailed and distract from the rest of the model. Generally on a model the vaguer the background the better it works.

 

It depends what you do with them.

 

[SD85]

^ Yes, that one works well, primarily because it's toned down a lot.

[hucknall byron]

12 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

It depends what you do with them.

 

 

[hucknall byron]

The black country blues backscene. Now that is one backscene I would just love to incorporate in my next layout. Fantastic in every respect. Can you buy copies?

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, hucknall byron said:

Can you buy copies?

 

It was a bespoke job. I photographed the scene from another hill miles away, blended 20+ images together and had it printed on vinyl professionally to the size needed for the layout - it's about 30' long.

[hucknall byron]

4 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

It was a bespoke job. I photographed the scene from another hill miles away, blended 20+ images together and had it printed on vinyl professionally to the size needed for the layout - it's about 30' long.

Yes, I followed the thread as the layout progressed and it give me more than a few ideas for my next attempt. Lovely layout which I hope to see in the flesh sometime.

[Joseph_Pestell]

20 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

It was a bespoke job. I photographed the scene from another hill miles away, blended 20+ images together and had it printed on vinyl professionally to the size needed for the layout - it's about 30' long.

 

What sort of money involved to do this?

[AY Mod]

11 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

What sort of money involved to do this?

 

I've done other scenes too and it generally works out about £40 per square metre; expensive carpet territory.  But that's down to the quality of material used for durability and strength when supported on framework as a continuous roll.

[The Johnster]

Many of the commercially available backscenes depict a particularly bright and clear sunny day, in vivid colour, and in high colour.  This may be exactly what you want, in which case fine, but they are unsuitable for some layouts; I mentioned Arun Quay, can you imagine how unsuitable one of these would be on a layout like that!  They are photographs (though the same criticisms can be made of the Peco prints that have been around since god was in short trousers) and the camera cannot lie (it is alleged), but they restrict the scene to summer, and are less suitable for steam age/pre-clean air act period layouts when there was a lot more industrial airborne pollution, as well as dust from agricultural activities, and domestic coal burning even in small villages.  Cloudy or cold days would retain this particulate stuff beneath the cloud level, and even clear days were hazy.  Colours were washed out and fading to grey within a mile in such conditions.  

 

Rain is surprisingly rare when you examine the records (although I remember 1958 as a very wet summer) even in winter, despite what Shakespeare said, but overcast conditions are much more common.  Visibility was usually restricted and clear days remarked upon.  I don't know if Andy's Black Country Blues scene was taken on a hazy day, but it has been toned down and this makes it very effective.  A thin matt grey-blue wash will take the edge off most commercially available backscenes.  

 

There will be a problem where the 3D layout meets the 2D backscene, and it is advisable to hide this as much as you can, and hedges or other vegetation are commonly used.  If the layout is in an urban setting, then low relief buildings blending to an urban backscene is the usual method, unless larger industrial buildings are close to the railway in which case they can be the backscene.  On Black Country Blues the railway is set above the landscape on an embankment and the branch runs over the top of it on a further embankment and an overbridge, a very effective setting.  The real West Midlands is pretty hilly, and the suggestion is that there is about half a mile of downslope leading to the bottom of the valley behind the railway which you don't see but assume to be there; it's a psychological trick, and very effective.  But I've seen it badly done, with a stream in the foreground and the suggested valley dropping away behind the railway, topography that argues with itself and subconsciously makes the scene less convincing.  

 

Note that Andy says he took the photo from a hill miles away, to flatten the perspective so that the scene can maintain a uniform perspective over the whole of the layout.  

 

Lighting is important as well.  Firstly, it must enable you to see the models properly, but it can be used to suggest different times of day and different weather conditions.  A low level of diffused layout lighting with some lights on in buildings can suggest evening, or very early morning, or a very dull and rainy day.  My layout is, by coincidence, orientated correctly, so I can use natural light from the windows in real time if I need to, but of course this will depend on the space you have available.

[bradfordbuffer]

On 20/04/2020 at 10:47, AY Mod said:

 

It depends what you do with them.

 

Or the skill / dexterity of person using it?.....

[Mrs Durby]

On 20/04/2020 at 10:34, SD85 said:

There is a trend nowadays for printed photographic backscenes on quite a few exhibition layouts, but my general observation is that they don't quite seem to work. They are almost too detailed and distract from the rest of the model. Generally on a model the vaguer the background the better it works.

Couldn't agree more!  Far too many modellers go for a model where the detail is exactly the same from right under your nose to the smallest, least significant shed in the background; and you can often end up looking at anything but the trains because as soon as the movement stops, you look for something elsewhere.  

I find it better to use your peripheral vision at suitable locations, note what stands out, and paint that, but in muted tones.  Some detail's fine, but only to focus the eye on something to distract from an exit scene or something which, by dint of lack of space, is far smaller than you'd like it to be.  Of course, selecting what detail to put in and what detail to leave out is where one has to get a bit artful.  And that's what makes art, 'Art', imho...