Burchill Edge Sidings - BR Blue Carriage/NPCCS Sidings, with a nod to Manchester Red Bank & Bristol Malago Vale

[9C85]

17 minutes ago, 61656 said:

Most of the track wasn’t built by me, it came from Marcway. I definitely think it’s worth the money.

Before I started building my layout, I visited the Marcway shop in Sheffield - I am just over the border in Derbyshire. 

I got talking to a very nice gentleman, who  I think was called Mark/Marc and afterwards I realised that he may have even been the Marc in Marcway?

For some reason, I was under the impression that they only dealt in EM, P4 scale track etc. and I was surprised that they supplied 'off the shelf ' track in OO scale.

It is really nice looking track and I was tempted to use it as I wanted curved pointwork to emulate that of Red Bank. But as ever, price came into it - I think I have nine turnouts on my scenic section- so I settled for straight Peco Bullhead points leading to sidings on a curve.  The main 'throat' of my yard is partially hidden by the girder bridges, so I think I get away with it. 

I was thinking of waiting for Peco to produce curved Bullhead points before starting the layout build. Are they available yet?

[61656]

My trackwork probably cost me near to 4 figures, which took some time to decide it was worth it. I just couldn’t get the look I wanted with Peco or Tillig (definitely worth a look). I sort of justified it in my head with the argument that it’s less than 4 sound fitted locos. 
 

Luckily I was able to honestly tell Mrs 61656 that I paid silly money for it and she hasn’t yet asked for the small print!

[9C85]

I think your reply says more about the cost of sound-fitted locos than the cost of track 

I want to get sound on all my locos. The first loco I had was a Hornby Class 31 with TTS, which sounded lovely but was in Dutch livery, so sold it. Now I wish I had kept it and painted it, but it looked lovely as it was so I didn't want to ruin it.

I had a Hornby Railroad TTS Class 40 for about an hour before I found that it didn't like Bullhead points. 

I am looking at sound locos all the time on Ebay. I nearly got my 25 sound fitted last month, but silly things like buying food somehow get priority in my house 

Edited January 31, 2021 by 9C85
Auto uncorrection

[61656]

I decided to stop buying more locos until my current fleet is sound fitted. My preferred supplier of sound is definitely Howes, but I’m keen to know if the TTS is any good as it’s a lot cheaper. My only non sound fitted diesel loco at the moment is the 31, which ironically you can’t buy the TTS chip for at the moment. 
 

A brass back to back gauge has solved nearly all of my running woes. I thoroughly recommend one before selling a loco on. My Bachmann 40 had a habit of kicking its pony truck off on diamond crossings, the gauge showed the wheels were fractionally out. 

[9C85]

I liked the TTS Class 31 sound. I preferred the flange squeal on it to that of my Legomanbiffo 47. I think my locos are quite 'old' so I am not sure how much room they have for speakers. I would probably have to have them professionally fitted, but I did contemplate having a go at the 25 myself.

 

[61656]

Fitting DCC sound is one of those real daunting until you’ve done it jobs. I’ve fitted quite a few now and don’t think twice about it, but I was terrified on my first one! 
 

The speaker nearly always fits between the bogies, but you do have to be brave with the scalpel or cutting disc. 
 

This is my Bachmann 25, the sound quality is great and it’s nowhere near full volume. 
 

I think the tanks underneath are a clip fit, so you can prise them off with a screwdriver. 
 

I’ve only done “DCC ready” so far, but older models shouldn’t be beyond you. 

 

[9C85]

 

 

So this is what I have got this morning. 

 

It looks OK from a distance, but once again I have had problems with the Newspapers transfer. I don't know if it's because I let it soak for slightly too long but I noticed it didn't want to settle in place when I was fixing it... and yes, I used a pool of Klear to apply it.

 

Close-up it looks like it has 'silvered' - something I got when rebranding some of my GUVs.

 

I noticed the problem when I applied the second coat of Dulcote last night and the only way I could think of fixing it was to apply more Klear via a cocktail stick. The photo above is brutal, but from normal viewing distance, it's hardly noticeable and there's always the excuse that it's going to be heavily weathered, so I am not going to lose sleep over it.

 

The really annoying thing is that the other transfers i.e. the 'wrong' numbers, went on a treat.

 

 

So I now need to repaint the buffers black, reassemble the coach, and put it back into service and wait for the weathering fairy to pay a visit to make everything better.

[Geep7]

22 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

 

 

So this is what I have got this morning. 

 

It looks OK from a distance, but once again I have had problems with the Newspapers transfer. I don't know if it's because I let it soak for slightly too long but I noticed it didn't want to settle in place when I was fixing it... and yes, I used a pool of Klear to apply it.

 

Close-up it looks like it has 'silvered' - something I got when rebranding some of my GUVs.

 

I noticed the problem when I applied the second coat of Dulcote last night and the only way I could think of fixing it was to apply more Klear via a cocktail stick. The photo above is brutal, but from normal viewing distance, it's hardly noticeable and there's always the excuse that it's going to be heavily weathered, so I am not going to lose sleep over it.

 

The really annoying thing is that the other transfers i.e. the 'wrong' numbers, went on a treat.

 

 

So I now need to repaint the buffers black, reassemble the coach, and put it back into service and wait for the weathering fairy to pay a visit to make everything better.

Out of interest, who's transfers are you using? And how do you dry off the transfers once you've applied them?

[9C85]

12 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

Out of interest, who's transfers are you using? And how do you dry off the transfers once you've applied them?

Railtec.  I get them in place with a cocktail stick, then dab around them (not touching them) with a cotton bud to soak up as much Klear as possible. I might give a final dab on the transfer when it looks like all the Klear has gone and the transfer is fixed in place.

[37Oban]

Hi, 

I only use Klear as a patch on which to place the transfers.  They are soaked as per instructions then applied with a generous wash of  microsol and gently teased into place and any nooks and crannies with a cocktail stick before gently patting dry with a piece of kitchen paper.  They are then left to dry fully before weathering, if need be, and sealing with dulcote or Klear.

 

Roja

 

[Geep7]

I was having a similar issue with Railtec transfers, and I found it was all down to me not having the painted surface glossy enough. I found the a good coat of gloss varnish did the trick (Humbrol acrylic gloss in my case).

 

I think the other thing, as 37Oban mentions, is allowing them the dry. Railtec transfers seem to take a lot longer to dry than other brands, so probably need leaving longer before sealing.

[9C85]

Thanks Geep7 and 37Oban. I freely admit that I have probably rushed this job and should have left things longer between tasks, but I get so little time to work on the layout these days that I couldn't turn down the opportunity of a relatively 'free' weekend. 

 

I will see how the weathering affects this job - at worst I will end up with a plain blue BG which is something I have been after since starting the layout. 

 

[Steven B]

It's enjoyable to see this layout and its stock developing. Transfers can be a bit tricky at times - mine sometimes still end up in a mess even after 15+ years of practise.

 

Transfers should always be applied to a gloss paint finish - applying to matt will give the silvering. Satin finishes can go either way, it depends on the transfer. Klear makes a good base to apply transfers on to but it does need to be properly dry.

 

Railtec transfers are very thin and you don't normally need Micro-sol or Micro-set to help them stick & mold to the body side. They can actually break-up if you're not careful.

 

Apply as little water as possible to the transfer - don't dunk it but use a paint-brush to bring just enough water to the transfer to release it from the backing paper. Doing it this way means you won't loose the stickyness in the pot of water (and with care you can even let the transfer dry out and re-wet another day).

 

Leave transfers at least 24 hour to dry out before coating with Klear or some other varnish.

 

Steven B.

[9C85]

As an aside, I saw this view in passing yesterday and I quite liked it...

 

 

[9C85]

 

The ex-works coach in its new home.

 

This has been an object (more like abject) lesson in how NOT to go about adapting a model.  Even in putting it back together, I managed to get glue on the glazing and the coach side, black paint on the roof, and one of the Kadees fell off. The Kadees probably need moving outboard slightly if I am going to loose shunt this coach but it's more or less a fixed rake Newspapers train that it's in now.

 

I am just going to have a few running sessions this week and think about weathering when the shed gets a bit warmer.

[9C85]

36 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

 The Kadees probably need moving outboard slightly if I am going to loose shunt this coach...

 

Thinking about it, I could probably just swap the coupler arm for one with a longer shank.

Does anyone know the length of the shank supplied with a Kadee No 5 kit? I am guessing it's a 'medium' , so I will need a 'long' or 'extra long'? 

[9C85]

21 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

 

Thinking about it, I could probably just swap the coupler arm for one with a longer shank.

Does anyone know the length of the shank supplied with a Kadee No 5 kit? I am guessing it's a 'medium' , so I will need a 'long' or 'extra long'? 

 

Answering my own questions now... it looks like the Kadee No 26 (or 36) is what I need.

'Long' shank - which by my calculation is 3mm longer than the 'Medium ' supplied with the No 5.

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, Steven B said:

Transfers should always be applied to a gloss paint finish - applying to matt will give the silvering.

 

Really?

 

Mike.

[9C85]

 

Shunter's eye view 

[Steven B]

19 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Really?

 

Mike.

In my experience yes. Applying to gloss reduced the silvering and they stick better.

 

Steven B

[9C85]

On 02/05/2020 at 13:47, 9C85 said:

The corks seem to work well.  I may add a spot of glue to the wire if they start to slide off.

The stoppers give the corks a more 'fit for purpose ' feel. I could even put turnout numbers on the faces if I felt like it. It will be interesting to see how long this 'temporary' solution lasts

 

My 'temporary' point control system is just about life-expired. Despite putting a bend in the wire at the cork end, some of the corks won't stay on. Last night I reached to switch a point, only to discover that the cork had come off, and the exposed wire embedded itself in my finger tip. I immediately reached for the pliers and extracted the offending wire.

So now I have only six of the original nine points on the scenic section fitted with wire-in-tube control.  I think the main problem is that I used wire from B&Q which was supplied in a coil, so it naturally doesn't want to be straightened out to go through a narrow brass tube? 

I could try retrofitting straight wire (in fairness, when the system works, it works well), but I would like to have levers to throw. I have got three DCC Concepts Cobalt digital motors on the turnouts in the fiddle yard. They work well but aren't cheap, and I need nine motors for scenic section. 

I have never used good old fashioned analog DC point motors but I am tempted to have a go. 

I have read some mixed reviews about Seep motors (mainly regarding the precision required to install them), so I would be grateful for suggestions for easy to install, reliable point motors and levers. I eventually intend to have either a lever frame or a small control panel which will also contain the switches for the four ground shunting signals (I only have one installed at the moment).

Thanks in advance for the help. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by 9C85
Ytpo

[61656]

I have fitted over 60 seep motors as a complete beginner and they all work well. With 60 motors required, anything more expensive was immediately ruled out. Because of the handbuilt points I needed a latching motor, so not much choice. 
 

I made a little jig for alignment, but my best move was only using blacktack to hold them in position until I was happy with the alignment. Do a few test throws and then screw them firmly in with the longest screw your baseboard allows. Pre drilling will prevent them moving when you screw them in. 
 

I wouldn’t use the seeps to switch frog polarity, I use the same switch that I use for the motor to switch the electricals. I suspect the precision required for switching the frogs is where a lot of people find the headache. 

[9C85]

4 hours ago, 61656 said:

I have fitted over 60 seep motors as a complete beginner and they all work well. With 60 motors required, anything more expensive was immediately ruled out. Because of the handbuilt points I needed a latching motor, so not much choice. 
 

I made a little jig for alignment, but my best move was only using blacktack to hold them in position until I was happy with the alignment. Do a few test throws and then screw them firmly in with the longest screw your baseboard allows. Pre drilling will prevent them moving when you screw them in. 
 

I wouldn’t use the seeps to switch frog polarity, I use the same switch that I use for the motor to switch the electricals. I suspect the precision required for switching the frogs is where a lot of people find the headache. 

 

Interesting advice here.

 

One of my points lost its spring - I think it was during the wire-in-tube installation.  So do I need the PM4(?) Latching motor for this one, and PM1s for the remainder? ... and I keep the springs fitted to these?

 

Also, I have made provision for wiring the frogs. The turnouts are PECO Unifrog and they have worked pretty well thus far without power to the frog, although the 08 does complain sometimes if the track is dirty.

 

How do you wire the frog from the turnout switch?  ...a rough sketch of the wiring would be useful .

 

Thanks again 

[61656]

9 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

 

How do you wire the frog from the turnout switch?  ...a rough sketch of the wiring would be useful .

 

Thanks again 

I don’t really know enough about peco points to confirm seep 1 for sprung and seep 4 for unsprung, but logically it makes sense. 
 

When I say I use the switch for the motor and the frog, I mean I use a 3PDT or a 4PDT switch. This isn’t as complicated as it sounds and is nothing to be afraid of!

 

I use a capacitor and diode combination next to my motors to power them, essentially a mini (and very cheap) capacitor discharge unit. 4 diodes and 2 caps will do a single ended point or a crossover (or more if you want). This means I need a DPDT switch to reverse the polarity to the motor to fire it across. The caps mean there’s no chance of burn out, removes the need for less reliable momentary switches and unlike using a capacitor discharge unit, you can throw infinite motors at once. There are circuit diagrams in my pages. The photo shows the wiring for two single ended points. 

Once you have a DPDT, you just add extra poles for the frogs (one for single ended and two for a crossover). Farnell and RS both sell 3PDT and 4PDT toggle switches fairly cheap and they have nice big lugs for soldering. I’ve added a picture of my part wired panel so you can see the switches. Some of them move 3 point ends at once. 

 

 

 

 

[9C85]

I won't show you my wiring