Gilbert Lane its P Way and Signals etc.

[micknich2003]

Peter, thanks for you kind words.

[micknich2003]

Here's another signal from my stash that as not made it to Gilbert Lane.

 I made this c1995, the etches are from D&S but, as is my usual practice the main post and dolls are filed from brass bar. The "Down Rods" are bent wire and Hornby Dublo style, but from normal viewing distance they make a good representation of the Rocking Shafts often used on NERly bracket signals. I have of course moved on, and if I was now to make the signal I would have correct and working "Rockers".

[t-b-g]

On 04/05/2020 at 21:57, Compound2632 said:

There aren't enough layouts that take the signalling as their starting-point!

 

That is a very good point. Many years ago I was taught that when designing a layout, the signalling should be a very early part of the process. If signalling it is either very difficult to work out, or massively complicated, then the design is probably not too prototypical.

 

If you need a forest of signals to work a simple layout, you should look at redesigning the layout or you are modelling the North Eastern Railway!  

[Titanius Anglesmith]

10 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

Here's another signal from my stash that as not made it to Gilbert Lane.

 I made this c1995, the etches are from D&S but, as is my usual practice the main post and dolls are filed from brass bar. The "Down Rods" are bent wire and Hornby Dublo style, but from normal viewing distance they make a good representation of the Rocking Shafts often used on NERly bracket signals. I have of course moved on, and if I was now to make the signal I would have correct and working "Rockers".

 

That’s a beautifully built signal. Interesting arrangement too with the arm behind the doll but the spectacle plate in front (or are my eyes deceiving me?) Was that a common arrangement on the H&B?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Titanius Anglesmith
Spelling

[micknich2003]

NERly signals were "Inside Arm" or as often ref to "Slotted Post". After the Grouping several NERly pattern signals appeared on the former H&BRly.

 The H&BRly like most other railways used conventional "Outside Arms", see earlier posts.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Ah yes, I see now that it’s a slotted post. I also see that you said it was NER above  Thanks

[micknich2003]

6 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

That is a very good point. Many years ago I was taught that when designing a layout, the signalling should be a very early part of the process. If signalling it is either very difficult to work out, or massively complicated, then the design is probably not too prototypical.

 

If you need a forest of signals to work a simple layout, you should look at redesigning the layout or you are modelling the North Eastern Railway!  

Tony a matter of opinion if or not the NERly was over signalled or correctly signalled, there's a lot to be said for "A Signal for every move", see attached.

 Top sketch shows how the NERly would have done it with two separate signals.

 Bottom sketch shows the same layout after the LNERly had rationalized. The signalman backs a train from the Siding and onto the Up Main to shunt through the X Over and away via the Down Main. Unfourtantly he forgets to restore No2 points before pulling off No3 Shunt Signal which now reads two ways. The driver see's it off (3) and proceeds only to find himself back where he started., or worst sets back through the buffer stops and does a lot of damage.

[micknich2003]

Here is No30 Down Main Distant. Ex H&BRly signal as later fitted with a UQ arm. Usual etches etc and post filed from brass, the finial is a lost wax casting.  Additional details, battery box at foot of post made from Plasticard, insulator at top of post cut from line arm of an old Airfix telegraph pole.

[The Stationmaster]

On 08/05/2020 at 13:47, micknich2003 said:

Tony a matter of opinion if or not the NERly was over signalled or correctly signalled, there's a lot to be said for "A Signal for every move", see attached.

 Top sketch shows how the NERly would have done it with two separate signals.

 Bottom sketch shows the same layout after the LNERly had rationalized. The signalman backs a train from the Siding and onto the Up Main to shunt through the X Over and away via the Down Main. Unfourtantly he forgets to restore No2 points before pulling off No3 Shunt Signal which now reads two ways. The driver see's it off (3) and proceeds only to find himself back where he started., or worst sets back through the buffer stops and does a lot of damage.

The oft-claimed advantage of using only a single arm for various different routes on shunting signals was that it made everybody more cautious in both checking the route was correctly set before starting a move and made Drivers proceed very carefully and slowly when making the move.  Of course, depending on the arrangement of the locking, it could also save money and definitely saved lamp oil and time lamping signals.  You may take your choice regarding who made the decision to use a single arm/disc for more than one route

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The oft-claimed advantage of using only a single arm for various different routes on shunting signals was that it made everybody more cautious in both checking the route was correctly set before starting a move and made Drivers proceed very carefully and slowly when making the move.  Of course, depending on the arrangement of the locking, it could also save money and definitely saved lamp oil and time lamping signals.  You may take your choice regarding who made the decision to use a single arm/disc for more than one route

 

That's much the same as the argument that lack of AWS made for more careful driving. Or any other safety system...

Edited May 9, 2020 by Compound2632

[micknich2003]

Here is another one one from my stash that won't get used, an ex H&BRly Three Position signal.

 

 Usual construction details, arm "Home Brewed" from a drawing that was published in the "Model Engineer" c1941.

[Gravy Train]

Great models Mick.

[micknich2003]

Here's another one that wont make it to the new layout. Made some years for the previous layout and now abandoned. It was to signal a junction on two Permissive Block Goods lines hence the two Calling On arms. The lefthand doll at sometime as been fitted with UQ arms, while the righthand doll remains in its original H&BRly style.  Usual construction and etches, though the bracket is cut from Plasticard.

[micknich2003]

Another one from twenty or more years ago ethat has not made the new layout. Ex H&BRly but later fitted with UQ arms. Same construction as the other signals.

[Billy Flathead]

Mick, thanks for posting the drawing of the shunting signal arm, l had been meaning to ask you about them.

When our new home diy issues are over and l get some quality shed time in, l will have a go at building one.

[micknich2003]

Billy Flathead, here's another picture  of a H&BRly shunt signal, this one was at Carlton, and for a change "Pulled Off".

Edited May 18, 2020 by micknich2003

[Gravy Train]

Hi, Mick,

I had working signals on Shaw Bridge, which I constructed from MSE parts and one was a double gantry GWR bracket whichI converted to an L & Y bracket using MSE.

unfortunately I have no photos of the bracket signal.

I had a couple of ground signals in the loop but they were none working, I was told it’s very difficult to get ground signals working, very fiddly but not impossible.

peter

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Gravy Train

[micknich2003]

Some weeks since I have posted anything on Gilbert Lane, and actually owing to other interests nothing done. Whatever, thoughts are now back to the layout and the level crossing, Attached several drawings of the real thing ex Saxby & Farmer and hopefully of interest and of use to some fellow modeller.

 To accommodate the skew. I will probably have to lengthen the gates. Photo' is a "14ft Square" crossing, ex Neville Stead.

[Compound2632]

I see Saxby were selling crossing gates to India!

[micknich2003]

Stephen, like all the UK signal contractors S&F sold world wide.

 

[micknich2003]

For  something different I have made a start on the over bridge this will span the railway to the left of the level crossing and over Nos11 and 18 points. I have presumed  it came about as part  of a early '30's Ring Road" scheme, and hence the presence of a bridge and level crossing in close proximity.  The plate girders are from the Wills range, the rest is Home brewed from plastic which is not my usual medium, I'm more used to metal. I hope to have a trolley bus route passing over the bridge which spans a nominal sixty feet with a twenty foot six ins roadway.

[nicktamarensis]

Nice scheme Mick, well done.  I like the trolley bus notion as an addition, it'll add a nice touch of period flavour.

Btw, your H&BR signalling work is exemplary and stands as an essential modelling record of that side of the company's operations.

Over the years, very few have embarked on modelling this fascinating, but sadly neglected, company so your project is doubly valuable.  Hopefully, it will also stimulate a wider, and long overdue, interest in things H&B and even spur other modellers to tackle aspects of the company whether this being pre-1923, LNER or BR.  In particular, the fine station buildings built along the route between Hull and Cudworth are worthy subjects in their own right and deserve to be given modelling attention.  To my knowledge, none have been tackled as yet.

Anyway, nice one Mick - keep up the splendid work!

 

[micknich2003]

I wonder how many H&BRly modellers they actually are, I can probably name half a dozen.

[Gravy Train]

Hi Mick,

nice to see you cracking on with the layout project and looking forward to watching it develope, nice to see the H&BR getting a look in in the modelling front.

The Wills girder parts are excellent and work well, into a bridge like this.

 

[micknich2003]

A bit more work on the bridge, but much more yet to do. The road surface is very fine wet and dry paper laid over a length of 60tho square plastic to make the camber.