LMS Motive Power Depot (fictional) - thoughts and advice sought

[Free At Last]

Made this coal drencher this afternoon, sizes are guesstimates but after a coat of paint and a little bit of flexible pipe should look ok alongside the coal plant wagon hoist.

[hap]

On 17/05/2020 at 18:01, Harlequin said:

Hi hap,

 

Do you need the bulge? It looks like you could just leave out the tracks going around the TT and connect things together to give the double road engine shed a headshunt and a simpler connection to the TT. (That would also get rid of those ugly Settrack curved points!)

 

Edit: Do the lines to the right of the TT go anywhere?

 

The second from top connection to the TT has a reverse curve that could be removed.

 

And you could easily replace the small Y SL-97 with a smoother formation if you could justify spending a bit on some new turnouts. The same applies to various other places, actually, and it might be worth it if your locos are bigger than tank engines. Think about a big pacific traversing a small radius turnout...

 

 

 

Hi Harlequin.  Thank you again for the input.

 

To answer a couple of your open questions - the bulge around the turntable was trying to replicate - given space limitations - some of the entry track to the historic Holyhead depot. I have included the Depot's track plan that I have been working off to further converstaion.   I do rather like how the crossover near the real turntable looks.   The lines to the right of the turntable go no where the one below the turntable should be to the main line.

 

Interesting point regarding the reverse curve.   I was thinking I need to get the 2 tracks parallel around the coaling tower (Ratio 547 Coaling Tower looks the go to for this).  But you are 100% correct - perhaps better placement of the track on the turntable should be able to eliminate this aspect.

 

Also your points regarding the size of the points is well made - I agree.  But I have a budget constraint.  I'll see what other spares I have around.  I think I have a medium Y around around that may be serviceable to try in that location or another SL-91.  

 

More iteration.  And thanks once again for the feedback.  It is excellent to get new perspective - to mull things over.

 

[hap]

[Harlequin]

Hi hap,

 

I'm not sure if this is directly helpful but it might give you some useful ideas:

• I'm suggesting the whole board is 370mm wide (30mm wider than your drawing) just to ensure that the TT well doesn't foul the supporting timbers below.
• And I'm suggesting that the small 350mm long arm at the left is not part of the scenic layout.
• Use the sheds as low-relief because there's no point hiding your prized locos in a building. The centre of the layout is more open and there's more room for the roads in front and their inspection/ash pits.
• Peco loco lifts can be connected to all the line on the left, including the shed roads, so that locos can leave and enter the scene and the sheds really do have depth even though they are low-relief.
• Most turnouts are 45in radius (Peco Large) or greater (Large Ys). There's one medium in front of the sheds and one double slip (urgh!). I'm just showing that you don't have to use small radius points and since the track is the backbone of the layout and will be there forever it's probably worth investing in.
• The double slip is a bodge just to provide the prototypical exit route (connecting out to a loco lift). I'm not sure it's really needed and maybe there's a better solution but at the moment I can't see it.
• The loco lifts would have simple hinged supports that fold flat against the edge of the baseboard when not in use so that they don't take up permanent space.
• Coal wagons (full and empty) could be stored on the lines either side of the sheds.

 

Edit: Whoops! We both posted at the same time!

Edited May 18, 2020 by Harlequin

[hap]

Really appreciated Harlequin. It will take me a little while to digest the plan.  Lots to ponder.  I like your thinking.

 

While I have you the baseboard will be 17mm thick plywood, glued with phenol formaldehyde resin.  I do not believe there be a need for under structure.  The wood is usually used for concrete form work and is marine grade.  It is left over from another project of mine.  Specs here is anyone is interested https://www.bunnings.com.au/carter-holt-harvey-1200-x-595mm-17mm-f14-formrite-formply_p0390167

 

Also - everything on the left is wrapping around the mechanism for my garage door - hence the extra jutting out part.  The challenge here is it will be restively inaccessible due to large steel arms and springs immediately in front.  I do like the idea of a low relief engine sheds.    Perhaps the one on the far back can be a little longer.

 

I do have a larger Y point in good condition (ST-247) and a double slip in average condition (SL-90).  I even have a spare engine lift.  Going through my spare track box, I found 4 Piko points.  They are large (55220 & 55221) and 2x are 3 ways (55225).  These were given to me a while back and have no idea what they are like to use - and mix with Peco 100.  They seem to require Piko point motors.  Any thoughts on these?  All are in good condition.

[hap]

Building on the most helpful and useful advice provided, I have continued to refine the layout.  The current prototype is shown in the AnyRail graphic below,  Comments and thoughts are most welcome.

 

Today I took delivery of the LMS Sheds in Camera by John Hooper.  I was hoping for some new pictures of Holyhead depot.  Sadly just he one and no new angles - at least the shed is pre-the concrete roof alteration.

 

Midland Region BR Steam MPDs Series Paul Bolger is coming in the mail.  Hopefully some additional photos will be included.  Fingers Xed.

 

I have also started to think about signaling.  What would have been prototypical in the mid 30s to the end of the LMS?  In the photos I have of Holyhead i cannot spot any typical LMS semiphore signals - but my photos so far are rather poor quality - so I may be missing them.  So what was used in the depot area?  Were they like the DCC Concepts ground signals?  Where would they have been located?

[Wheatley]

There would have been no signals of any description within the depot area itself, probably not even "STOP" boards at that date. There would have been a ground disc or a miniature arm controlling the exit onto the running (main) line but that's all, like this (myriad variations depending on which company installed it -https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/signals/gs009/ ) .  

 

You can just see a disc to the left of the square noticeboard in Hap's pic controlling the exit from the depot towards Holyhead, there is another one reading the other way on the other side of the line reading on to the Up (you can only see the back of it and then only just) . That's if I've correctly interpreted which are bits of the shed and which are running lines on Hap's diagram !

 

Edited because I found the other disc !

Edited June 1, 2020 by Wheatley

[hap]

Please pardon any ignorance on my part.  Would Wheatley's helpful answer change - if we make the layout story a fictional preserved depot in the current era based on the old (1930-47) Holyhead track plan, run by a group who maintains preserved LMS locos for running?  i.e. do preserved railway sheds have signals installed?

 

[hap]

Continuing to chip away at the layout design - I laid out some indicative track - to get a feel of the end result.  Please note the baseboards are yet to be cut to size and I grabbed what ever flex track I came to in the box - much of which has been reused and damaged.  I'll be using flex track in better condition when I start actually laying track.  

[hap]

Thoughts, comments, suggestions are most welcome.

 

[hap]

I have found another picture which shows better the overall layout from the turntable side.  I'll revise my track plan accordingly.  

 

I am wondering what the narrow gauge wagons were used for at the shelter.  Perhaps coal was unloaded from normal coal wagons into the small wagons which were then taken to the coaling plant - for feeding into the elevator.