CXW's NER & H&BR (and Industrial) Workbench

[CXW1]

I finally got round to buying some paint from Halfords a few days ago and a break in the rain meant that I could go outside and do some spraying. The J79 (Connoisseur body and scratchbuilt chassis) was first in the queue and will hopefully be followed by the J71 and N12 in due course. 

 

I have used Halfords satin black for the body and this will be toned down with some varnish and weathering at some point. There are still a few jobs to do inside the cab (glazing, crew etc). Fortunately the roof is a separate assembly which is easily removed to allow access. 

 

 

 

The picture below shows all of the North Eastern Railway 'H' classes. From left to right are Class H, H1 and H2 (latterly LNER Y7, J78 and J79). Please ignore the mess in the foreground. 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by CXW1
Picture added

[Asterix2012]

7 minutes ago, CXW1 said:

I finally got round to buying some paint from Halfords a few days ago and a break in the rain meant that I could go outside and do some spraying. The J79 (Connoisseur body and scratchbuilt chassis) was first in the queue and will hopefully be followed by the J71 and N12 in due course. 

 

I have used Halfords satin black for the body and this will be toned down with some varnish and weathering at some point. There are still a few jobs to do inside the cab (glazing, crew etc). Fortunately the roof is a separate assembly which is easily removed to allow access. 

 

 

 

The picture below shows all of the North Eastern Railway 'H' classes. From left to right are Class H, H1 and H2 (latterly LNER Y7, J78 and J79). Please ignore the mess in the foreground. 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

How did you go about making the J78 Chris?

[CXW1]

2 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

How did you go about making the J78 Chris?

 

The J78 is 100% scratchbuilt in brass. I had just finished it before I started my workbench topic and unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the build. However, it follows my usual methods shown on here. Fortunately there are plenty of photographs of the 2 prototype J78s. I also had the Y7 kit (Alexander Models) and the J79 which were used to make an educated guess on the dimensions given their similarity. Key dimensions like the overall length and wheelbase etc can be found in the relevant RCTS volume. 

 

The boiler is brass tube and the rest of the body and crane was cut from brass sheet with a piercing saw. The safety valve and chimney castings are from 247 Developments and the buffers are from Lanarkshire Models. No idea where I got the tank fillers from. 

 

The chassis was constructed using the same methods as per the J79 chassis a couple of pages prior to this. However, the wheelbase of the  J78 (6ft & 4ft) and the dimensions of the body meant that the gearbox drives off the middle axle - the rear and middle axles are rigid and effectively work as a pair, and the front axle is in Alan Gibson sprung hornblocks to give some basic compensation.  Off the top of my head the J78 has a High Level road runner compact plus gearbox (60:1) and a Mashima 1015 motor. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

[micklner]

On 16/06/2020 at 23:01, CXW1 said:

A quick update to show some slow progress with the D24. The correct sized wheels arrived last week which allowed me to get the ride-height sorted out, fit the lower front frames and make a better fixing arrangement for the bogie. The front buffer height looks pretty good when the loco is stood next to the horsebox that I built a few weeks ago, which suggests that my guesswork and various drawings and plans on the back of envelopes were OK. 

 

I still haven't fixed the boiler or castings in place yet - they are just balanced or held down with blu-tak for now. 

 

I mentioned in the previous post that I would have a think about using a High Level slimliner gearbox or a simple single stage motor mount. This was an easy decision in the end because the motor mount that I have in my spares box is slightly too wide. So, I will have to order a gearbox. 

 

I have also made another 2mm scale wagon (RCH 1923 mineral wagon kit from the 2mm Association) which will end up on Yeovil Town. I will hand-letter this when my eyes and patience feel up to the task. Pictured next to the obligatory 2mm modeler's coin of course!!

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

 

 

What is the half hidden "van" in the first photo please ?

[CXW1]

36 minutes ago, micklner said:

What is the half hidden "van" in the first photo please ?

 

It is a London Road Models (ex MSE) Hull & Barnsley Railway horsebox - more pictures back on page 3. 

 

 

[CXW1]

Another busy evening in the paint shop. The paint job on the J71 was nice and easy, the N12 not so easy. 

 

According to Yeadons the N12s were lined black up until the painting economies of 1928, so lined black it is. One of the skills I would like to develop is hand lining using a ruling pen but until then it is Fox Transfers and a fair amount of patience. I still have the other side to do but that is for another day. The lining itself is not so obvious to the naked eye as it appears in the photo. A coat of varnish will tone things down. 

 

One of the problems of using black and white photos for reference purposes is the fact that red lines tend to not show up very well. I am reasonably confident that the red lines are more or less how things may have been in reality, but it is very difficult to be 100% sure.  Either way I think it looks OK. 

 

 

The cab roof on the N12 still needs to be fitted. The roof has been left off for the time being while I do some basic detailing of the cab including knocking up a basic backhead. I would say that the backhead is representative rather than 100% accurate - in reality very little of it will be seen once the driver and fireman are in situ. 

 

 

 

 

 

[micklner]

Nice locos , however I have never seen a LNER Loco with the seperate Tank panel lining as you have done it ?.

[CXW1]

31 minutes ago, micklner said:

Nice locos , however I have never seen a LNER Loco with the seperate Tank panel lining as you have done it ?.

 

Morning Mick, I agree the lining looks a bit 'odd' compared to standard LNER practice. However, there is a line of beading on the cab front which runs all the way down to the footplate which prevents the lining taking the usual shape of something like a Worsdell tank loco that we are all familiar with.

 

The side tank is effectively a separate fabrication to the cab and this seems to be standard design practice with Stirling-designed H&BR tank locos.

 

As I mentioned yesterday there is a difficulty in identifying red lining against a black background on old photos, but there is definitely evidence of a separate tank panel lining in the Yeadons book. The rest of the lining on the cab is more of a guess but I have tried to follow the original pattern of lining as it was on H&BR  locos. 

 

The problem we have with the less-photographed loco classes is the fact that they didn't carry red lining after 1928 and I doubt if there is anyone alive today who can confirm with 100% accuracy how things actually were? 

 

And it has a High Level gearbox....

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

[micklner]

I had to enlarge the photo to see the Cab join , H&BR did like some unusual designs !!  I do not have the Yeadon volume for this loco.

 

Must be a great runner too !!

Edited September 5, 2020 by micklner

[CXW1]

The N12 is more or less finished - still needs a crew (as do a few other locos) but painting gadgies isn't top of my priority list.

 

 

 

Now - back to the D24......

Edited May 31, 2022 by CXW1
Picture added

[CXW1]

I have made a bit of progress with the D24 over the past few evenings. There are still a few small jobs to do on both the loco and the tender - the tender needs handrails and lamp irons fitting, and the loco needs some brakes, sandboxes under the footplate and the smaller secondary splashers on the front driving wheels. Apart from that, it is nearly time for a good clean-up and a first coat of primer. 

 

The tender spring and axlebox castings aren't 100% accurate, but probably close enough for me. I think the castings are a LMS/Fowler pattern from Comet which I have altered slightly.  Unfortunately there isn't a huge range of available castings and other bits and bobs when you decide to model one of the less well known railways..... 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

Edited September 22, 2020 by CXW1
typo

[Simon Moore]

On 02/09/2020 at 22:06, CXW1 said:

I finally got round to buying some paint from Halfords a few days ago and a break in the rain meant that I could go outside and do some spraying. The J79 (Connoisseur body and scratchbuilt chassis) was first in the queue and will hopefully be followed by the J71 and N12 in due course. 

 

I have used Halfords satin black for the body and this will be toned down with some varnish and weathering at some point. There are still a few jobs to do inside the cab (glazing, crew etc). Fortunately the roof is a separate assembly which is easily removed to allow access. 

 

 

 

The picture below shows all of the North Eastern Railway 'H' classes. From left to right are Class H, H1 and H2 (latterly LNER Y7, J78 and J79). Please ignore the mess in the foreground. 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

That crane tanks beautifully done, the j79 was my first kit when I started modelling. Funnily enough the same number 1787 & built in em. I still have her & shes still going strong.

Excellent work though

[Shez]

Really enjoying your Hull and Barnsley models. The remains of the Wath branch embankment were at the bottom of my Primary school field in Bolton on Dearne so I have always had an interest.

The H and BR station building and the station masters house at Wath are both still standing. (the station building carries the name Barnsley cottage) Both are by a busy roundabout, and I wonder how many passing drivers realise what they are. My mother who recently passed away aged 100 recalled riding on the branch passenger trains as a young girl in the 1920s. 

[micknich2003]

50 minutes ago, Shez said:

Really enjoying your Hull and Barnsley models. The remains of the Wath branch embankment were at the bottom of my Primary school field in Bolton on Dearne so I have always had an interest.

The H and BR station building and the station masters house at Wath are both still standing. (the station building carries the name Barnsley cottage) Both are by a busy roundabout, and I wonder how many passing drivers realise what they are. My mother who recently passed away aged 100 recalled riding on the branch passenger trains as a young girl in the 1920s. 

 

Here is the Wath Station layout and signalling, I have a few pictures, but not one of the signalbox.

[CXW1]

1 hour ago, Shez said:

Really enjoying your Hull and Barnsley models. The remains of the Wath branch embankment were at the bottom of my Primary school field in Bolton on Dearne so I have always had an interest.

The H and BR station building and the station masters house at Wath are both still standing. (the station building carries the name Barnsley cottage) Both are by a busy roundabout, and I wonder how many passing drivers realise what they are. My mother who recently passed away aged 100 recalled riding on the branch passenger trains as a young girl in the 1920s. 

 

Thanks Shez, it is always good to hear personal stories like that. It is my intention to build a small layout for the Hull and Barnsley locos to run on, but I need some kids to leave home first so I can acquire a bedroom. Until then it will be a 'shunting plank' in the garage. I don't have any personal connection to the Hull and Barnsley area - I think I just like the look of the locos. I grew up within sight of the line up to the steel works at Consett but all of the good stuff like 9Fs had gone before I was born. 

[CXW1]

1 hour ago, micknich2003 said:

 

Here is the Wath Station layout and signalling, I have a few pictures, but not one of the signalbox.

 

Interesting stuff as ever Mick. As I mentioned in my previous post I really do need to make a layout for the locos to run on but I'm lacking space to do anything of any note. I have been thinking about a small corner of Cannon Street goods depot or somewhere like that unless anyone has any decent alternative suggestions. Something to ponder over the winter I think. 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by CXW1
Correction

[CXW1]

You may have noticed that I often have a few things on the go at the same time. I tend to get a bit bored with models as they get close to completion and the D24 is a prime example of this. I think this is because I get more enjoyment and satisfaction from taking a few bits of brass and other parts and making something that works rather than fitting handrails and painting it. The D24 will get painted and lined in due course.

 

Over the past couple of weeks, I have started working on something else and I think it is about time it made an appearance on here. I fancied a change from Hull and Barnsley locos, so we have gone back to the North Eastern.

 

Here is a photo of the works foreman thinking it is a bit of big brute, and he is also slightly puzzled about how to make some outside cylinders. It will hopefully turn out OK in the end.

 

Everything is presently held in place with that essential engineering solution (Blu Tak).

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by CXW1
typo

[micknich2003]

21 minutes ago, CXW1 said:

You may have noticed that I often have a few things on the go at the same time. I tend to get a bit bored with models as they get close to completion and the D24 is a prime example of this. I think this is because I get more enjoyment and satisfaction from taking a few bits of brass and other parts and making something that works rather than fitting handrails and painting it. The D24 will get painted and lined in due course.

 

Over the past couple of weeks, I have started working on something else and I think it is about time it made an appearance on here. I fancied a change from Hull and Barnsley locos, so we have gone back to the North Eastern.

 

Here is a photo of the works foreman thinking it is a bit of big brute, and he is also slightly puzzled about how to make some outside cylinders. It will hopefully turn out OK in the end.

 

Everything is presently held in place with that essential engineering solution (Blu Tak).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by micknich2003
A7's were allocated to Springhead, you have not left the H&BRly behind.

[CXW1]

1 minute ago, micknich2003 said:

 

 

Evening Mick, I must have done a decent job so far because I didn't actually say what it was and you have guessed correctly. For the non-NER people out there it is an A7. 

 

In reality it wasn't that difficult a thing to guess as it clearly isn't an A6 or A8. 

 

The plan is to build an early example with a Diagram 55 boiler, shorter smokebox and Ramsbottom safety valves. The safety valve casting is a spare part from a Dave Alexander J27 that I've had for years - just shows you should never chuck anything out because it might come in handy one day. No idea what the chimney is or where it originally came from, and I probably won't use it.  

 

I am working from a photo of No. 1129 in the RCTS book. 

 

I am aware that there is a Little Engines kit for an A7 (if you can find one) but I've always thought that this somehow never really captured the prototype.

 

I assume the picture of 69772 was taken somewhere in Hull?

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

[micknich2003]

Dear Chris, the only picture I have of 1129, I hope of use.

[micknich2003]

29 minutes ago, micknich2003 said:

 

Taken at Springhead.

[CXW1]

3 minutes ago, micknich2003 said:

Dear Chris, the only picture I have of 1129, I hope of use.

 

Thanks Mick, I have got this picture but it is very grainy. The above photo is much clearer and provides some nice detail of the cylinders. The above picture of 1129 looks like it has a slightly longer smoke box so it might have been taken after the superheater was fitted in 1930. It also looks like it has ross pop safety valves rather than the Ramsbottom 'trumpet' that I found in my spares box. 

 

 

[micknich2003]

Chris, I have many A7 pictures, just ask.

 

[micklner]

9 hours ago, CXW1 said:

You may have noticed that I often have a few things on the go at the same time. I tend to get a bit bored with models as they get close to completion and the D24 is a prime example of this. I think this is because I get more enjoyment and satisfaction from taking a few bits of brass and other parts and making something that works rather than fitting handrails and painting it. The D24 will get painted and lined in due course.

 

Over the past couple of weeks, I have started working on something else and I think it is about time it made an appearance on here. I fancied a change from Hull and Barnsley locos, so we have gone back to the North Eastern.

 

Here is a photo of the works foreman thinking it is a bit of big brute, and he is also slightly puzzled about how to make some outside cylinders. It will hopefully turn out OK in the end.

 

Everything is presently held in place with that essential engineering solution (Blu Tak).

 

 

 

 

Snap!!

Just starting on rebuilding a Little Engines version . It arrived wrecked via Hermes with a modified Triang or similar Chassis which maybe off a Scotsman A3.

Mine will have a modified Comet A3 chassis same wheelbase between the drivers and a Comet Bogie, a new motor and a HL Box , currently it has Romfords with too many spokes . Luckily I had set of the correct Gibsons already, and also a Bradwell Brass Safety valve cover via his J27 !!

Have you any photos/drawings of the Roof or the Top showing the Tanks/Boiler join. The kit has about a 2mm gap between the Boiler and Tank Tops , no idea if protypical or not. The kit also has the short smokebox and the large Boiler.

 

I think Yeadon might have a couple of photos of 1129 I will have a look.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by micklner

[CXW1]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Snap!!

Just starting on rebuilding a Little Engines version . It arrived wrecked via Hermes with a modified Triang or similar Chassis which maybe off a Scotsman A3.

Mine will have a modified Comet A3 chassis same wheelbase between the drivers and a Comet Bogie, a new motor and a HL Box , currently it has Romfords with too many spokes . Luckily I had set of the correct Gibsons already, and also a Bradwell Brass Safety valve cover via his J27 !!

Have you any photos/drawings of the Roof or the Top showing the Tanks/Boiler join. The kit has about a 2mm gap between the Boiler and Tank Tops , no idea if protypical or not. The kit also has the short smokebox and the large Boiler.

 

I think Yeadon might have a couple of photos of 1129 I will have a look.

 

 

Hello Mick, I have been following your fortunes with the A7 after Hermes kicked it around their warehouse floor. I dread having anything delivered by them - it usually turns up late or damaged, and sometimes both. I ordered some chocolates for a few relatives last Christmas and they were delivered by Hermes. It appears that someone somewhere in the supply chain had opened the boxes and helped themselves to the nice ones. Of course we could never prove what happened but I got my money back for damaged item.

 

Anyway, back to the A7. I don't have any pictures of the tank/boiler join. However, it looks like on the larger boilers the front of the side tank is profiled to the shape of the boiler, which suggests there wouldn't be much of a gap at the top. On the newer/smaller boilers it looks like a plate has been attached to the front of the side tank which fills the gap between the original tank and the smaller boiler - in this case my educated guess is there would be some sort of a gap at the top. I think the difference in boiler sizes was 5ft 6 inches versus 4ft 9 inches minus the cladding - therefore a 2mm gap could be slightly too large but not too far off, but only if you are modelling the newer/smaller boiler. I haven't soldered anything together yet so this is something that I ideally need to get some certainty on before I do anything else.

 

I have scratch built my chassis from brass strip. The front bogie currently pivots in the middle but I anticipate some clearance and shorting issues once I get the slide bars attached (it is EM). A tried and tested solution is to pivot the bogie closer to the rear wheel and I suspect I will have to do this. 

 

I will also use a HL gearbox - not sure which one yet but the available space means that pretty much anything will fit. I'm not going to think about gearboxes and motors until I can get the outside cylinders sorted and rolling chassis that goes around corners. 

 

This is probably going to be a slow burner over the winter. Good luck with yours. 

 

One small thing - I haven't seen a photo of an A7 with tank vents. I think the A8s had them though....