Changing to Kadee couplings on Hornby wagons

[Exonian]

I have just started on the hobby. I have thought the tension lock couplings look awful so I have decided to standardise on Kadee couplings.

 

Conversion was straight forward on my Bachmann wagons with their NEM coupler pockets, however I am having problems on how  to convert my Hornby wagons. See attached.

 

I have bought the Kadee Magne-Matic Coupler Sample Test Kit (KDE13)  but the enclosed conversion list does not include Hornby.

[Butler Henderson]

That is the tension lock mount originally designed by Airfix and used by Dapol as well as Hornby through tooling ownership changes and later additions using the same mount. One possible way of fitting a Kadee is force a NEM Kadee into the mount as shown in this article http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/other/mti_article.php, which does mean the kadee had no swing to it. The alternative is to completely remove the mount and fit a Kadee with its draft box.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

A further alternative is that the internals of a no5 Kadee draft box: the pivot post and correctly dimensioned location for the spring; can be replicated in that mount. Did it once and rather fiddly it was too, but definitely possible on the ex-Airfix GMR 20T tank wagon now in Hornby's range at least. (Might be easier with more modern Kadees?)

 

Challenge for the expert: fit Kadees to both the ex Airfix GMR now with Hornby, Lowmac, and to the Airfix kit now with Dapol, Lowmac. I think these are the most awkward 4mm wagon models going, or do I see any advance on that?

[Il Grifone]

I'd remove all traces of the tension lock* and then a Kadee no.5 will fit in the space. It will need a little packing under the floor and fixing with a screw as  the underframe is resistant to adhesive.

 

The Airfix/Dapol LOWMAC kit was designed to take a Peco coupling, so there would be no problem fitting a Kadee No.5**. I've fitted a Peco coupling to the Airfix GMR one as well so again there should be no problem (long shank couplings might be required). This assumes fitting the Kadees at the Manufacturers height. Fitting them in the headstock (where they belong on British stock) is rather more difficult and may require an offset knuckle.

 

* I have given my opinion of these horrors elsewhere....

** I prefer the Snap-fit draft box but that is personal preference.

[Dominion]

I have done many of that type. I use the long box mount offset types 21 , or 31, or 141.

Mounted over the existing post in the existing box the length is good. 

I also introduce a slight bend at the mounting end of the shaft to lift the coupler head to standard height.

The closure box clip does not quite hold the pivot up and flat so I use Kadee 10 or 15 thou fibre washers on the post between the coupler and the snap on coupler box lid.

Hope that helps. Tom

[DCB]

Is there any reason for buying and owning Hornby wagons?    Hornby sell a hodge podge of Airfix, Lima and possibly others designs along  with their own various iterations of models with little or no standardisation of couplers wheels or anything else.

My own approach based on 30 odd years modelling is to try to standardise on one manufacturers underframe and fit various other manufacturers bodies to it.  That way you get a nice matched set of wagons which you can shunt and assemble into trains without worrying which are light and have to go at the back.. .  

You can then match up the surplus bodies and chassis and sell them as complete models  or sell them on separately.

Does Hornby actually make anything you need which  Dapol, Oxford, Bachmann etc don't.    Just my view from my alternative universe.  There's more than one way to skin a rice pudding.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Is there any reason for buying and owning Hornby wagons?    Hornby sell a hodge podge of Airfix, Lima and possibly others designs along  with their own various iterations of models with little or no standardisation of couplers wheels or anything else.

My own approach based on 30 odd years modelling is to try to standardise on one manufacturers underframe and fit various other manufacturers bodies to it.  That way you get a nice matched set of wagons which you can shunt and assemble into trains without worrying which are light and have to go at the back.. .  

You can then match up the surplus bodies and chassis and sell them as complete models  or sell them on separately.

Does Hornby actually make anything you need which  Dapol, Oxford, Bachmann etc don't.    Just my view from my alternative universe.  There's more than one way to skin a rice pudding.

It'll vary for each of us I expect. You won't find a more delicious Trout than Hornby's, and it's an essential for an ER layout, so I could not refrain from that; and indeed several other of their wagon products which are unique to their range and for which there won't be an alternative RTR chassis. While I can kit build and do, for the volume of wagons I want operating on the layout I will take every bit of help available from good RTR! So my approach is an alternative way to standardisation.

 

My own fleet of wagons includes kit product from the 1960s onwards from about ten manufacturers, and RTR product from another ten. And they all run together perfectly reliably. That's because the standard they are expected to meet before going into service on the layout is the one I was taught about 1970, with emphasis on free rolling performance on pinpoint axle metal wheelsets,  consistently positioned couplers and a controlled weight range. Every single RTR wagon gets 'doctored': on current RTR this is usually relatively minimal: all get the Bachmann coupler, 'pruned' for closest possible coupling on a 30" minimum radius layout. Older RTR wagons are typically rewheeled, and sometimes more: ex-Airfix for example get brass pinpoint bearings as well, because the chassis plastic often wears badly; it's a 'whatever mods are required' process to obtain the proven performance for reliable operation.

 

Many ways of skinning this particular cat indeed.

[Exonian]

On 27/04/2020 at 13:12, DavidCBroad said:

Is there any reason for buying and owning Hornby wagons?    Hornby sell a hodge podge of Airfix, Lima and possibly others designs along  with their own various iterations of models with little or no standardisation of couplers wheels or anything else.

My own approach based on 30 odd years modelling is to try to standardise on one manufacturers underframe and fit various other manufacturers bodies to it.  That way you get a nice matched set of wagons which you can shunt and assemble into trains without worrying which are light and have to go at the back.. .  

You can then match up the surplus bodies and chassis and sell them as complete models  or sell them on separately.

Does Hornby actually make anything you need which  Dapol, Oxford, Bachmann etc don't.    Just my view from my alternative universe.  There's more than one way to skin a rice pudding.

Many thanks for your very useful comments.

 

To answer David's query my reason was naivety. Being new to the hobby, I picked a number of wagons that I fitted my requirement. I didn't take the makers into account.  I have learnt the hard way. The only problem is that, as far as I can see, there is no way of ascertaining what coupling is provided except through the photo.

 

[Gilbert]

On 29/04/2020 at 21:14, Exonian said:

Many thanks for your very useful comments.

 

To answer David's query my reason was naivety. Being new to the hobby, I picked a number of wagons that I fitted my requirement. I didn't take the makers into account.  I have learnt the hard way. The only problem is that, as far as I can see, there is no way of ascertaining what coupling is provided except through the photo.

 

 

Its a bit of nightmare - even when fitted  the NEMs may be at the wrong height and use a stepped tension lock. I'm currently working through a few NPCCS vehicles - both Bachmann and Hornby - which I'll post a topic for soon. I was in two minds whether to bother with Kadees at all but decided it was a suitable "lock down" project with the cricket on in the background....

Chris

[Gilbert]

On 29/04/2020 at 21:14, Exonian said:

Many thanks for your very useful comments.

 

To answer David's query my reason was naivety. Being new to the hobby, I picked a number of wagons that I fitted my requirement. I didn't take the makers into account.  I have learnt the hard way. The only problem is that, as far as I can see, there is no way of ascertaining what coupling is provided except through the photo.

 

As for Hornby I've acquired quite a few off their recent releases  (Toads , Horseboxes, CCT etc) none of which is available - in some cases not even a kit).

Chris