Izal/Ford Palvan diag. 1/221

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I know a man who can, if you can just do the CAD's, thereafter is relatively simple.

 

Mike.

[Evertrainz]

5 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I know a man who can, if you can just do the CAD's, thereafter is relatively simple.

 

Mike.

 

Sorry - the CAD for the whole van or were you referring to the smaller detail metal bits?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

The whole van and underframe.

We can continue this by pm if you like?

 

Mike.

[Mark Saunders]

With hindsight  it would be better to produce it with chassis as it is not a common  size !

[Guest Half-full]

ish

 

I used to live in a bedsit in a large house many many moon ago and the toilet paper in the loo's was kept in a locked dispenser - you had to put 10p in to get out 5 sheets (I think) of Izal.  On top of the 10p to get the light to come on and another 20p to use the shower - which was timed to 5 mins!!!!!

 

Grim days, Only had to use it a few times when I was too skint to buy loo roll from the shops!

Edited April 27, 2020 by Half-full

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Doing a body suitable for an existing chassis would probably work either Parkside, or Red Panda kit would be acceptable or even a Bachmann or Dapol rtr one!

How about the Dapol Prestwin underframe; you'd have to lose 4mm in the wheelbase, and replace/ hack the brake gear.

[Evertrainz]

I’ll start arranging for the printing stuff to happen when the wagon is closer to completion – not far off at all.

 

I could do the solebar as part of the print, you could getaway with using a ‘Parkside Dundas’ kit for the brakegear bits – you would need the LMS clasp brake (for the lever and shaft) and the BR clasp brake (shoes and inner lever hangars). Not sure if there are W-irons that come with the kits. Auxiliary leaf springs can probably be gotten hold of from Rumney Models (?).
 

Buffers and all I see a lot of nice castings for a variety of OLEO bits offered online, which could be used. Mine is eyeball work anyway and wouldn’t fare well with printing costs. 

[Steamport Southport]

11 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The only wagons I know of that were locked as a matter of course were Gunpowder vans, and those carrying alcohol or tobacco, which also had a Crown Seal. Generally, the securing pin and latch would have been considered sufficient.

The Ford Pallet Vans were also locked after an incident where criminals tried to break into a train en route from Dagenham to Halewood. A pallet became dislodged, and fell on to an adjacent track, causing a serious collision with another train.

 

Yes. One of the reasons the Ford vans had the logos removed was they were getting targeted by thieves. Mainly they were looking for things like lamps and car radios. Stuff they could sell on pretty easily.

 

I remember the Ford vans well. Can't remember any Izal ones though.

 

I'm afraid all trains would have been diesel hauled rather than electrics. Mainly Class 24s or 25s and later 47s (often one from Stratford). If you were lucky you got a 37 or 40.

 

 

 

Jason

[Evertrainz]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

...

I'm afraid all trains would have been diesel hauled rather than electrics. Mainly Class 24s or 25s and later 47s (often one from Stratford). If you were lucky you got a 37 or 40.

I’m not sure exactly but I know at least one of the trains switched off to AC traction upon reaching power. The Ford train involved in the Watford crash (I think a class 6) was hauled by an 85.

 

There was 4M18 which ran through the WCML: https://flic.kr/p/qsKedV

https://flic.kr/p/bXSHRo

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Evertrainz

[keefer]

A lot of freight was diesel-hauled over the North London Line and were targeted at a couple of locations due to being held at signals (the passenger services having priority).

They then had a booked stop at Willesden but I don't know if this was used to change the loco for an electric

[Fat Controller]

8 minutes ago, keefer said:

A lot of freight was diesel-hauled over the North London Line and were targeted at a couple of locations due to being held at signals (the passenger services having priority).

They then had a booked stop at Willesden but I don't know if this was used to change the loco for an electric

I believe that trains sometimes had an ex-SR 'Queen Mary' brake van, with a couple of BTP officers on board.

[Evertrainz]

2 hours ago, keefer said:

They then had a booked stop at Willesden but I don't know if this was used to change the loco for an electric

www.leightonlogs.org/Watfordcollision230175.htm

 

“6M50 consisted of 17 pallet vans electrically hauled from Willesden by 85017 6M50 runs daily 

conveying car part in pallets or specially designed steel stillages loaded by fork lift truck into the wagons at Dagenham,

after which the wagons are closed and sealed by company staff.”

 

Interestingly the review mentions the wagons being sealed by wire at Ford Dagenham although I think this was a guideline doubt that it was followed in practice. The accident report concludes the same. 

[keefer]

IIRC a contributory factor was that the train wasn't examined at Willesden before heading north (any open doors would've been spotted).

However, the report did not judge the driver too harshly as the train was stopped next to the main lines, meaning there was no safe way for the driver to inspect that side of the train.

[Evertrainz]

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfordpalvan/h1629c9f2
 

Looking closer at this pic of the Ford train it appears the last ex-Izal van (short wheelbase) had some white marking or branding filling the door panel that used to bear the Izal logo. Could this mean that some ex-Izal palvans got marked with the Ford branding similar to the earlier style used on the long wheelbase vans? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dw0qu3tWoAEV0h-.jpg

[Evertrainz]

In the excellent video below around 8:30 an AL1 comes along with the 4M18 Ford parts to Halewood, interestingly there are a few things:

1. Most of the 30+ wagon consist is made up of ex-Izal vans, at the front primarily

2. The short wheelbase palvans retained their Izal green, although in very tatty condition

3. Some vans got a Ford branding sticker over the door inset that originally had the “IZAL products” emblem, while other didn’t

 

And a question that I hope someone more versed with train classification would be able to answer. I’ve been able to put together that the Izal vans had two sets of branding, one reading “RETURN TO CHAPELTOWN ER” on the left-center door, and another set of branding on the rightmost door reading “TO RUN ON C-D TRAINS WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS” ...

 

I’m only assuming that “C and D” refers to train class, as in Class C goods? Why would this wagon specifically need such a note, unlike others? Would it be down to the large Izal branding making people think they were to only run in block company trains? Happy to be corrected.
 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Evertrainz

[Fat Controller]

9 hours ago, Evertrainz said:

In the excellent video below around 8:30 an AL1 comes along with the 4M18 Ford parts to Halewood, interestingly there are a few things:

1. Most of the 30+ wagon consist is made up of ex-Izal vans, at the front primarily

2. The short wheelbase palvans retained their Izal green, although in very tatty condition

3. Some vans got a Ford branding sticker over the door inset that originally had the “IZAL products” emblem, while other didn’t

 

And a question that I hope someone more versed with train classification would be able to answer. I’ve been able to put together that the Izal vans had two sets of branding, one reading “RETURN TO CHAPELTOWN ER” on the left-center door, and another set of branding on the rightmost door reading “TO RUN ON C-D TRAINS WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS” ...

 

I’m only assuming that “C and D” refers to train class, as in Class C goods? Why would this wagon specifically need such a note, unlike others? Would it be down to the large Izal branding making people think they were to only run in block company trains? Happy to be corrected.
 

 

Might it be more that they were allowed to travel at normal speeds in these categories of train, rather than be subject to the rather Draconian (25 mph?) limit imposed on the 'offset-door' Palvans ?

[Evertrainz]

6 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Might it be more that they were allowed to travel at normal speeds in these categories of train, rather than be subject to the rather Draconian (25 mph?) limit imposed on the 'offset-door' Palvans ?

 

That might be it. But I thought it was after a number of incidents that the speed limit on those vans were really cut down. Maybe mid 1960s? These 1/221 vans came out around 1960 or 1961.

[50A55B]

The video rather nicely illustrates the difference between Electric Blue on AL1-5 and Rail Blue on AL6.

[Evertrainz]

32 minutes ago, 50A55B said:

The video rather nicely illustrates the difference between Electric Blue on AL1-5 and Rail Blue on AL6.

Yes indeed. One of my favorite clips. The loco change from 40 to AL1 and the speed at which it took place is also remarkable.