Renumbering, naming and weathering a Bachmann Class 47

[Mick Bonwick]

Don't get too hung up about specifics. If you find a colour that suits your purpose and a brush that works for you then that's perfectly OK. I use products because either I was taught to use them or I've copied somebody else. There are very few, so far, that I've found or 'invented' myself.

[9C85]

I am not sure if the one on the left in the background is strictly IPA, but by using liberal amounts of both liquids this evening, I have got Odin back to this state. 

So now I need some more transfers, including numbers and data panels, plus a BR logo for the other side. I can get that off the numerous Parcels/ Motorail ones I got with the Newspapers ones for my GUVS. 

I may as well get some laserglaze for the cabs while I'm at it.

I will try weathering it again but with a combination of hand painting, airbrushing and weathering powders.

Without the information I have gleaned from this forum, and the help of all the members I have contacted  (you know who you are), then there is no way that I would have dreamed of even weathering a loco, let alone stripping it all back off a few days later. 

Enjoy the hobby. 

Thanks again. 

[9C85]

 

Hopefully now got the tools for more controllable weathering. 

Just waiting for loco number transfers now.

[9C85]

Another question.... 

I have got some Humbrol Black Wash and I was thinking of using that round the door frames and on the roof vents before trying the powders on the rest of the body. 

But, from what I have seen Black Wash needs to be used on top of a gloss varnish, but powders need a Matt varnish?

So do I gloss varnish, then number and black wash, then matt varnish, then powder weather?

Or am I better off just doing the whole thing including vents etc with the weathering pigments?

Given my varnish experiences, I am already plumping for the latter.

Thanks in advance 

[Mick Bonwick]

Black wash will work on matt and satin finishes but they have to be completely dry. If there is any hint of damp the wash will go to places that you don't want it to. Remember that you're using capillary action to make the wash find troughs, corners, edges and hollows and follow their course. Hand painted models very seldom take washes well because the surface is not sufficiently smooth.

 

If you are brave enough to have a try with the wash, make sure you have some white spirit, cotton buds and paper towels handy. With those beside you there will be the remedy you need for disasters.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Mick Bonwick
Cotton has two ts in it.

[Squirrel Rail]

As you are back to the factory finish you shouldn’t have any problems with the washes. As Mick says any excess can be cleaned off after it’s dry. The Tamiya weathering sets are good but I would suggest you “fix” these with a varnish coat as they will rub off with handling, especially on the factory finish. Good luck with it, cheers Jerry

[9C85]

I think I am going to reglaze the 47 ( with Laserglaze) as I have lost a couple of cabside windows and the remainder are still a bit fogged. 

I will remove the glazing when I  apply the transfers and prior to the Dulcote. 

I am not sure whether to glaze the loco before weathering or after?

I imagine that the glazing job will require a lot of handling, plus I won't be airbrushing anything so I should be able to keep the new glazing clean when applying the Tamiya powders. 

So it seems to make sense to glaze the loco prior to weathering?

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, 9C85 said:

I think I am going to reglaze the 47 ( with Laserglaze) as I have lost a couple of cabside windows and the remainder are still a bit fogged. 

I will remove the glazing when I  apply the transfers and prior to the Dulcote. 

I am not sure whether to glaze the loco before weathering or after?

I imagine that the glazing job will require a lot of handling, plus I won't be airbrushing anything so I should be able to keep the new glazing clean when applying the Tamiya powders. 

So it seems to make sense to glaze the loco prior to weathering?

I wouldn’t incase I get any noxious chemicals on it. Weathered windows often look overdone anyway - like it’s driven under a muck spreader in a field 

[9C85]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

I wouldn’t incase I get any noxious chemicals on it. Weathered windows often look overdone anyway - like it’s driven under a muck spreader in a field 

I will only be applying weathering powders to it by brush after glazing. Keeping the airbrush away from it this time around.  I don't want to affect the powders by handling the loco to glaze it. I will not be sealing the weathering, as the loco won't be handled very much once it is back on the layout. 

[Phil Bullock]

As Rob says fitting glazing is best left till last. But if you are not sealing the weathering then your proposal is probably best

[9C85]

I probably shouldn't have done it but I couldn't resist having a dabble with the Tamiya powders.  The 25 was already airbrush weathered, and not varnished so it was probably not the ideal recipient for the powders. 

I started off just trying to add a bit of soot and streaking to the hinges on the large central roof hatch.

I am aware of the 'less is more' mantra but I always seem to overdo stuff.  At one point I decided to try and remove some soot with a moistened cotton bud, but that just succeeded in effectively painting the whole area below the hatch as if a massive oil leak had occurred. 

By this time, I had hit the 'farket' button and grabbed the nearest thing I could to try and remove the oil slick.  This turned out to be a disinfectant wipe, which are quite the rage these days.

Surprisingly for me, although the loco side was 'moist', I could see that it potentially looked OK.

I also made the 'mistake' of cleaning my filbert brush with another wipe and forgetting it was still wet when  going back to try and remedy the situation. 

Eventually, the loco side dried enough, and I had brushed enough, to salvage what I think is an acceptable result. 

It will be interesting to see how I get on with using the weathering powders the correct way on Odin 

 

[sb67]

 

13 hours ago, 9C85 said:

I probably shouldn't have done it but I couldn't resist having a dabble with the Tamiya powders.  The 25 was already airbrush weathered, and not varnished so it was probably not the ideal recipient for the powders. 

I started off just trying to add a bit of soot and streaking to the hinges on the large central roof hatch.

I am aware of the 'less is more' mantra but I always seem to overdo stuff.  At one point I decided to try and remove some soot with a moistened cotton bud, but that just succeeded in effectively painting the whole area below the hatch as if a massive oil leak had occurred. 

By this time, I had hit the 'farket' button and grabbed the nearest thing I could to try and remove the oil slick.  This turned out to be a disinfectant wipe, which are quite the rage these days.

Surprisingly for me, although the loco side was 'moist', I could see that it potentially looked OK.

I also made the 'mistake' of cleaning my filbert brush with another wipe and forgetting it was still wet when  going back to try and remedy the situation. 

Eventually, the loco side dried enough, and I had brushed enough, to salvage what I think is an acceptable result. 

It will be interesting to see how I get on with using the weathering powders the correct way on Odin 

 

 

Looks good to me 9C85 

[9C85]

 

I have applied Humbrol Black Wash to the roof panels, vents and louvres. I couldn't resist trying to add a few streaks down the side.

It helped this time around by having a proper 'detail brush' to apply it.

I managed to walk away from it before making it look like it had done a month on the MGR circuit. 

Next phase is numbering, then Dulcote, then Laserglaze and a final dabble with the Tamiya powders. 

Less is more, less is more... repeat to fade. 

[9C85]

 

Got some more Railtec Numbers for 47 081 today and was feeling brave so ordered some data panels too.

I used the Klear method to fix them.

After doing the first side, I realised it was a bit of a waste of time doing them separately as, as soon as I was happy with the positioning of the number, when I added more Klear for the data panels, the number floated off again. 

At least I now know what to expect and how much time I have.  The Klear doesn't dry up that quickly. This is likely to be the non-viewed side of the loco.  Typically I made a better job of the data panels. 

EDIT: As I typed the above sentence, I turned the loco around to check.  The data panel has come off already 

Back in a bit....

[9C85]

 

And we're back. I have stuck another data panel below the number.

I chose to show the other side in the first picture as I also had to replace the BR double arrows totem on that side.  I thought I would just use one from the several Express Parcels transfers I have but, as can be seen, the latter is about half the size of the loco version.  Not to worry.. I dare say that sort of thing happened in real life.

One slight fly in the ointment is that one of the 'stepping plates' (?) below the driver's cab front window has come off, probably during one of my wrestling matches to get the bodyshell off/on.

I don't know whether to snap off the other one for aesthetic purposes? Were these always a feature on 47s?

Finally, how soon should/can I Dulcote the body to 'fix' this evening's efforts? I was thinking of leaving it 24 hours?

[rob D2]

I know the bits you mean . They are steps I think for putting lamps on the front middle lamp iron.

 

Its a poor bit of design by Bachmann , as often I’ve had them glued to the body with the paint or one glued to body and three on chassis ( where they should be ) and they are quite over scale .

 

i did make an effort to put them back on most models but a couple are mssising some - I’m not too bothered 

[PM47079]

Agreed they are oversized 

[Mick Bonwick]

13 hours ago, 9C85 said:

Finally, how soon should/can I Dulcote the body to 'fix' this evening's efforts? I was thinking of leaving it 24 hours?

 

If you're happy with your aerosol control and can lay down a thin coat of Dullcote then I'd leave it for 48 hrs. If you're not quite as confident then maybe leave it for 96 hrs. Dullcote as a heavy layer can destroy some transfers very easily. I haven't done a study on types and manufacturers so can't be definitive about it.

 

If you still have some spare (?) transfers then you could do a test on some spare plastic sheet, painted in your model colours.

 

Another method of applying Dullcote is to buy the bottled stuff and apply it through an airbrush, but that will mean using cellulose thinners.

[Phil Bullock]

Odin always a favourite loco.... here’s an earlier version we did .... earlier! 

Yours is coming along nicely Stu....

Edited October 20, 2020 by Phil Bullock
Antipodean tendency of photo corrected....

[rob D2]

Do you like dull cote ? I’ve got three cans of it.....used it once...it’s literally too dull and flat 

[Phil Bullock]

25 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Do you like dull cote ? I’ve got three cans of it.....used it once...it’s literally too dull and flat 

That one predates use Of Dull Cote Rob .... Was Humbrol Matt varnish which I won’t now use having had so many problems with it! At least dull cote is predictable.... 

 

Completely Matt finish can be too flat for recently shopped locos but locos long due a repaint certainly got that way! Prefer some streaking over the top to lift it a bit.....

Edited October 20, 2020 by Phil Bullock

[Squirrel Rail]

13 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

If you're happy with your aerosol control and can lay down a thin coat of Dullcote then I'd leave it for 48 hrs. If you're not quite as confident then maybe leave it for 96 hrs. Dullcote as a heavy layer can destroy some transfers very easily. I haven't done a study on types and manufacturers so can't be definitive about it.

 

If you still have some spare (?) transfers then you could do a test on some spare plastic sheet, painted in your model colours.

 

Another method of applying Dullcote is to buy the bottled stuff and apply it through an airbrush, but that will mean using cellulose thinners.

If you brush over your transfers with your supply of Johnson’s clear you can then safely spray over them. If you want better control of the aerosol just spray it into the jar/ colour cup of the airbrush and it’s ready to go! 

[9C85]

 

I went into the garage to try and fix a Kadee coupler height problem on one of the latest Newspapers GUV conversions when I saw Odin sitting on the layout.  I remembered that I hadn't yet applied Dulcote after redoing the number and data panel transfers. 

I had intended to remove the bodyshell to do the rest of the work required on Odin  (Dulcote, Laserglaze and weathering powders). There were only two screws left holding the bodyshell on after all the times I have wrestled it off, but it soon became apparent that one of them wouldn't budge. I tried two different strengths of screwdriver on it but I think the screw head may just resemble that of a nail by now.

Undeterred, I masked off the lower body and applied the Dulcote.  The photo shows it after about an hour drying.  The transfers have survived and there's no sign of 'silvering '.

I am wondering what to do about the unbudgeable  (?) screw.

From what I have seen about fitting Laserglaze to the 47, it is done from the outside, so potentially I wouldn't need to have the bodyshell off, but obviously it would make the job easier.

I was thinking of drilling out the screw head and decided against using a power drill  - control problems and heat generation could be an issue, but a hand  drill or pin vice would be painfully slow and probably ineffective. 

Then I remembered I bought a cheap, almost useless mini drill a few months ago, as I was too tight to buy a Dremel. 

I have decided that I will try to do the Laserglaze with the bodyshell on in the first instance, but resort to increasing levels of drill carnage if need be.

Suggestions welcome 

Edited October 22, 2020 by 9C85
Typos

[rob D2]

On 20/10/2020 at 11:36, Phil Bullock said:

That one predates use Of Dull Cote Rob .... Was Humbrol Matt varnish which I won’t now use having had so many problems with it! At least dull cote is predictable.... 

 

Completely Matt finish can be too flat for recently shopped locos but locos long due a repaint certainly got that way! Prefer some streaking over the top to lift it a bit.....

Of anyone wants rattle cans of dull cote in wiltshire , I’m open to offers !

i agree humbrol can be unpredictable, but find it ok if you get a “ good “ can. Of course too much and it starts going milky white 

[Squirrel Rail]

1 hour ago, 9C85 said:

 

I went into the garage to try and fix a Kadee coupler height problem on one of the latest Newspapers GUV conversions when I saw Odin sitting on the layout.  I remembered that I hadn't yet applied Dulcote after redoing the number and data panel transfers. 

I had intended to remove the bodyshell to do the rest of the work required on Odin  (Dulcote, Laserglaze and weathering powders). There were only two screws left holding the bodyshell on after all the times I have wrestled it off, but it soon became apparent that one of them wouldn't budge. I tried two different strengths of screwdriver on it but I think the screw head may just resemble that of a nail by now.

Undeterred, I masked off the lower body and applied the Dulcote.  The photo shows it after about an hour drying.  The transfers have survived and there's no sign of 'silvering '.

I am wondering what to do about the unbudgeable  (?) screw.

From what I have seen about fitting Laserglaze to the 47, it is done from the outside, so potentially I wouldn't need to have the bodyshell off, but obviously it would make the job easier.

I was thinking of drilling out the screw head and decided against using a power drill  - control problems and heat generation could be an issue, but a hand  drill or pin vice would be painfully slow and probably ineffective. 

Then I remembered I bought a cheap, almost useless mini drill a few months ago, as I was too tight to buy a Dremel. 

I have decided that I will try to do the Laserglaze with the bodyshell on in the first instance, but resort to increasing levels of drill carnage if need be.

Suggestions welcome 

Hi - I’ve had the same problem with over tightened screws. Sometimes ( if your lucky) you can try and tighten it a little and then try and loosen it again as it can give you a bit of purchase on the head. If not there’s no problem with just drilling off the head. I used my 18v cordless which has variable speed so you can drill it slowly thus stopping any heat build up. Make sure you have the body on something soft and you hold it tightly so nothing can slip. The screws are really soft so a new drill bit will go through it really easily. Good luck cheers Jerry