How to make an operating sequence/timetable

[Wingman Mothergoose]

How do you guys run your layouts? I’d quite like to have an operating sequence or timetable once Richmond is at a point where I can run trains, but I have no idea how to go about setting up an operating/running sequence other than just running trains in and out of the station etc. 
Any help would be greatly appreciated! 
 

Chris  G

Edited April 27, 2020 by Wingman Mothergoose
Typo

[Nearholmer]

A good idea is to start with a mental model (or fantasy, as may be) of the place that your station serves:

 

- how many people live there;

- how do they make a living;

- any significant industries or trades;

- big enough to have a market, schools etc., or not?

- what raw materials or products is it likely to send out?

- ditto import?

- do people commute from here, to here, or neither?

- how do post and newspapers get here?

- terminus, through or junction station?

- what route(s)?

etc etc.

 

Start with the place, not the trains.

 

Richmond Upon Thames is a very different place from Richmond, Yorkshire.

 

Now you can begin to work out what trains it might need, and where they might go to and from.

[DCB]

With "Richmond" being a model of a real station you have a head start.  There must be public train timetables available to give an idea of the passenger service and may be working timetables as well.  I suspect the passenger service may well have been a shuttle to and from the junction connecting with ECML stoppers with one or maybe two goods per day.    That's bad as it could mean only three locos a day visiting and one of them being the Richmond based branch engine.  On the other hand if the service was through to Darlington or Middlesborough perhaps then maybe two or three locos and train sets could be in the circuit each day from a pool of quite a lot of locos. I guess the branch passenger loco was stabled at Richmond shed overnight and took the first out and last home passenger or ECS.  The line was double track I believe which simplifies things as up and down trains only conflict at the terminus, but it looks like a max of about three passenger trains and two goods per day,  Most branches had early morning outbound trains, maybe a couple, then a mid morning gap, handy for freights, a bit of late morning and early afternoon passenger action, afternoon gap handy for freight, tea time inbound, maybe early evening outbound and late night (9pm) return maybe Saturday only.
 

I think I would run a sequence starting 6 a.m ish with  two locos on shed and two two passenger train sets stabled in the station. Starting with an outbound passenger ,  with loco 1 and set 1 then another with loco 2 and set 2.  Next an inbound with loco 3 and set 3.  Loco 3 runs round, stables stock. Bit of light shunting, turns (is there a turntable?)   Goods, loco 4 brake van 1 arrives. detaches incoming and attaches outgoing wagons in a flurry of activity before the blokes grab a refreshing cup or glass of Tetleys before sloping off back to the junction. Loco 3 follows a while later with passenger.  Next loco 1 returns with passenger 1, runs round turns (?)  Returns to the junction around 1hr after arrival maybe crossing  Set 2 loco 2 returning.   Runs round, turns , shunts.  Afternoon goods with loco 5 brake van 2 drops incoming wagons, collects outgoing  returns to junction tender first and collects additional wagons at the junction and then continues south to York.  Passenger set 2 loco 2 leaves late afternoon Passenger set  3 returns tea time with loco 3.  Turns shunts as required, Loco to shed. Passenger 1 returns early evening with loco 6 runs round, stables stock, etc.   Saturday Loco 3 set 3 do additional evening run.   Next sequence loco 3 becomes loco 2 and 6 becomes loco 1. while set 3 becomes set 2. No reason original set 2 can't be swapped for another (Darlington?) based set.   Other locos can change as required by (Darlington,?)  shed.  D20, J25, K1, maybe a J26 or 27 on freight or even a 2-8-0 or 0-8-0 on the afternoon freight.  Should be able to run that lot in a reasonable session and still run s decent amount of locos. Without through passengers just shuttle a G6 backwards and forwards to the junction a dozen times a session or until boredom sets in.

Edited April 28, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[The Johnster]

I similarly had the basis of my WTT for Cwmdimbath from basing it on the real Abergwynfi, and simply came up with ball park running times to Tondu which allowed me to shoehorn in extra workings to a private siding and another workman's.  

 

My advice for now is to have a general idea but not start yet.  You've got to the point where you can run trains, so run them, performing the moves you think you'll need, noting the sequence and timing them.  Then, in accordance with Nearholmer's principles, and fitting David C's advice in, assess if you can't determine from an actual timetable the running times to clear the section to/from Catterick Bridge, which will determine how frequently arrivals and departures can be handled.  Give yourself some time for shunting and cups of tea like a real railwayman.  I operate a hybrid sequence/real time timetable, performing movements within station limits in real time but compressing real time at slack periods.  A train sent to Dimbath Jc takes 10 minutes to (passenger or goods) or 15 (mineral), and the same times to arrive once in section from Dimbath Jc, with minerals being allowed longer but capable of matching the downhill time if a 42xx is on.  

 

Thus between train shunting periods are limited to 10 or 15 minutes before the signalman has to call a halt to accept a train, as no outer home is provided, which means they must be performed quite sharply but with regard to realistic speeds unless time is allowed for shunting in the WTT, which it is for the morning pickup and evening parcels.  A limited amount of shunting can take place between the loop/recption, goods siding, and loco release part of the platform road with the train in section being held at the Home if it turns up.  Locos needing water can upset things as well, and the colliery is accessed by a ground frame, so the section is blocked while this is done but once 'locked in' can be cleared from either end.  Electric tokens are used.

 

I very strongly advise developing a sequence/real time hybrid WTT of this sort.  It imposes discipline and awareness of time of the sort that applied to real operations, and can be quite exciting if things do not go absolutely to plan, and I am as capable as anyone of not doing well at the game of 3D chess known as shunting!  Cwmdimbath handles a variety of traffic with very limited facilities and no spare space, and I enjoy the challenge.  I have 10, 15, and 20 minute countdown alarms on my phone to indicate time taken to clear section, at which point Clint Dark, the signalman (BSA 350 outside the box, because his Vincent Black Shadow is being serviced; it doesn't exist but Clint is a bit of fantasist, the Beezer doesn't go but impresses girls, or at least Cyril, his real name and who lives with his mum, thinks it does) is out of the window shouting hurry tf ups everywhere.  Don't be fooled, he's a conscientious and 100% by the book man at his job, which he takes very seriously even if the rest of his life is a bit sad and a sham.

 

Modelling is as much about creating this sort of imaginary world, the inconsequential daily life of a working railway with constant small problems to solve against the clock as it is about rivets and realism.  'Once I built a railroad, made it run, made it race against time'; of course it's ridiculous, of course it only happens in your head, of course it doesn't matter, of course The Squeeze doesn't understand and thinks I'm nuts, so to most of my chums, but to me it is the heart of the hobby, operating trains for proper reasons and in the proper way even if the reasons are imaginary.  I have been doing this for over 3 years on an almost daily basis now, with a full day's operation taking about 4 or 5 sessions, and I'm a long way from being bored with it!

[kevinlms]

There is this option.

 

http://www.wagonflow.co.uk/

 

I have a copy, but haven't got a layout to set it up for!

 

It would seem that it would work perfectly well on an old PC, such as that old superseded PC sitting in the shed/garage.

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

I assume this is a layout with a fiddle yard or 2?

I helped a friend exhibit a layout with a fiddle yard at each end & it was chaos without a sequence. The other end seemed to send train after train, not thinking that if their yard was empty, mine may have been full. I was frequently having to hold trains on the layout so I could make some free space.

We also had the situation of having to shout "I'm ready to send" 20' to the operator, often having to break conversation with a viewer to do so.

 

I started by making an outline of what trains we had & what service we wanted to run: 2 local passengers, 1 through passenger, a parcels, 2 mixed freights & a coal train.

I then looked at how many lines we had in the fiddle yards.

I made a little tab for each different train (but you could assign a playing card to each one) & placed them on a small diagram of each fiddle yard with the 'layout' between them. I then started moving the tabs from 1 end to another, often stopping them on the layout to simulate a freight being held in the yard. I recorded each move as I went along.

The aim was to get each train back in its original location. Once this was complete, I made sequence cards for each operator.

 

This made a massive difference. It eliminated fiddle yards from being full.

The same trains were not appearing repeatedly (apart from local passenger trains, which was intentional).

Everyone knew what to set up for the next move, so the shouting was gone & we could just glance at the sequence while talking to viewers, What we were doing even got involved in the conversation.

Time also passed much more quickly. Each sequence took about 25-45 minutes depending on how fast you tried to make it so, by early afternoon, we were trying to work out how many more we could manage in the day.

[David C]

As DavidCBroad suggested above, have a look at real timetables for NER branchlines. Great Western Journal was very useful in this respect for my own layout (Woodstowe) and gave very detailed timetables (including goods train timings) for several GW branch lines. Where you would go for similar information for Richmond, I don't know - isn't there an NER Society who might have such info? Usually, histories of branches include some copies of timetables, which would give you a starting point at least.

 

I remember reading somewhere (can't recall where) was that Richmond as the railhead for Catterick army camp. Nowadays, we forget how much military traffic there was on the railways right up to the end of the 1950s and possibly into the 60s as well.  I believe that the track to Richmond was strengthened to enable big locos (B1s and even V2s) to use it to haul quite lengthy troop trains, but this would also involve equipment. Imagine how heavy a train carrying, say, tanks would be and how powerful the motive power to haul it would be. (That said, I don't know that the line did ever carry tanks!)

 

This apart, there was also other traffic which many branch lines handled. Not only were there the usual pick up goods once or perhaps twice a day, but there may also have been mixed passenger and goods trains. This adds to the potential for interesting operation on a layout. Tail traffic carrying meat, milk, fish, parcels etc would often be added to passenger trains, allowing for yet more shuffling at your terminus. 

 

I suggest a bit of research would come in handy. Someone somewhere must have written a history of the Richmond branch surely?

 

Hope this helps.

 

David C

 

 

[legin]

Hi, Chris, 

I'm not sure if this will help at all given David's and others very thorough ideas about how the layout should be run. My own interest in model railways is, however, not so much in the building and repairing, but in running them to a sequence and a time, but not a timetable.. My template is at Midford Station on the old SDJR, where the 1948 timetable is displayed at full size. Having taken several photos of this, because I live 100 miles away, I then had some idea about the trains which were run in those days. The timetable included goods trains. My first train of the day is therefore the 2. 40 a.m goods to either Evercreech Junction or Templecombe-I can't remember which without finding my old table. Do not get up at this time. Then I picked out some other trains so as to give a balanced idea of what should be running-  goods to Evercreech and Templecombe from Bath and back, Milk Templecombe to Bath, Mail to Bournemouth, Coal Templecombe to Bath, Express Passenger Bath to Bournemouth, (supposed to be the first and last legs of the Pines Express respectively) and with a number of local passengers interspersed to different destinations. So I agree entirely that the best first port of call is an original timetable.

I have 7 train sets and 8 locos but 2 are just shunters. I  drew up a sequence table with train number, type, stock, from and to, stops, engine, and a big space for notes at the end. Fourteen trains in all, which with all the shunting and loco turning, takes several hours to complete. You can do it in bits. I then drew up another table of timings. Although I have 2 stop watches, I find it impossible to keep track of multiple trains and so the timings are based not on distance but how long a particular train is going for. So the Express is timed at 6 minutes Bath to Evercreech and stop and a further 6 minutes Evercreech to Bournemouth, but one minute less on the return.The stopping passengers are 6 minutes bath to Evercreech, 2 minutes Evercreech to Templecombe, and 5 minutes Temple to Bournemouth, total 13 mins and so on.. The clock is stopped at stations and where there has to be a signal stop ( or an accident!). Because the layout is relatively small, trains travel at between a scale 10 mph for goods and 20 for passenger.

I have a 1952 publication by Henry Greenly (written for Trix Twin which I used to have) about all this, and there are some interesting chapters about sequencing, marshalling of wagons in order, dropping some wagons and coaches at different destinations and of course collecting them. What is essential is that all stock must, at the end of the session, be back where it started, and where a loco is at A then to get to B it has to travel there either on a train or light. I got the book from the Trix website for next to nothing and the guy running it had one or two left when I purchased 3 years ago. I don't suppose they are in great demand.

Nigel

[Wingman Mothergoose]

Thank you all so much for your help! I think I have a good idea of how to proceed with this now, and I've managed to order a reprint of the WTT for the Richmond Branch too, so when that turns up I'll have a better idea of how the passenger service worked. 

There are a couple of book about the Richmond Branch, I have one of them, North Eastern Branch Line Termini by Ken Hoole, and I'll be ordering another book dedicated to the branch and the Catterick military railway, shortly. 

V2's have been mentioned, they were regular visitors to the branch, troop trains ran through to Richmond. I'm assuming this was due to weight restrictions for locos on the military railway or due to excessive curvature that meant longer tender locos couldn't negotiate them. Troops alighting at Richmond would then march the relatively short distance to Catterick Garrison. 

Also apparently there was a lot of horse box traffic at Richmond, due to there being a fair few wealthy racehorse owners living in the area. I don't know if the horse boxes were simply attached to regular service trains or if several horse boxes were marshalled into their own special racehorse train. Maybe a bit of modeller's licence could be used? Tank trains were something I considered, but by the era my layout is set I think the Centurion tank was the British army's main battle tank and it was a bit too wide to be transported by train. But that obviously doesn't stop me having other military vehicles transported by rail, Land Rovers etc. 

 

Chris

[DCB]

V2's were Route availability (RA) 9 the same as all the BR era ex LNER 4-6-2 Pacifics, about the same axle loading 22 tons as a GWR King, however the V2  was considerably shorter that an 8 wheel tendered Pacific so could be turned on smaller turntables. 

The original 1922 A1 Great Northern, Frying Scotchman etc were under 20 tons axle load with their thinner boiler plates (180 lbs as against 220/250lbs for later boilers ) and smaller super heaters, the last 180 lb pacific was rebuilt as an A3 in 1948.   

Edited May 5, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[Wingman Mothergoose]

3 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

V2's were Route availability (RA) 9 the same as all the BR era ex LNER 4-6-2 Pacifics, about the same axle loading 22 tons as a GWR King, however the V2  was considerably shorter that an 8 wheel tendered Pacific so could be turned on smaller turntables. 

The original 1922 A1 Great Northern, Frying Scotchman etc were under 20 tons axle load with their thinner boiler plates (180 lbs as against 220/250lbs for later boilers ) and smaller super heaters, the last 180 lb pacific was rebuilt as an A3 in 1948.   

I'm not averse to running an A3 up the branch! 

I was trying to buy at least one example of classes of locos that either ran on the branch or ran in the north east and may at some point have been part way or all the way up the branch.

At the moment I have one of each of the following classes:

Class 20(I know, but who doesn't love a 20?)

BR Standard 3 tank

J72

K1

K3

L1

V2

I also have a class 101 DMU, which were regular traction on the line in the 60's

 

I keep an eye out for an A5/2 and D20, and I've pre ordered the TMC/Bachamnn G5, as well as the forthcoming Oxford Rail J27 and Rails NER railcar. Any ex NER locos will do too, apart from the Raven Pacific's which I'm pretty sure never made it up the branch at all(I'm happy to be proved wrong on that one!!), and I've also got my eye on a Q6, even though they're probably a tad heavy. Richmond was lucky enough to have been provided with a small turntable, and I was looking at getting a London Road Models 50' tunrtable kit, but ended up using a Peco turntable(which represents a 70' table?) as I was offered one at a price I couldn't refuse, but it does let me run any loco I like up the branch should I apply 'rule 1', something which may work as I've ordered the KR Models GT3!

As you said though, having Darlington as the nearest MPD means that I could justify running a whole lot of different locos, plus I can always use the excuse that a loco from elsewhere is on a running in turn from Darlington works... ;-)

 

Chris G