Middleton Top and the C&HPR

[JustinDean]

Starting to look a little more like the Peak District now the walls are slowly going up in layers of individual stones. I’ve started on a tree armature to give me a break from this. Needs a trim then ‘bark’ applying. 

[Alister_G]

That's looking really, really good Jay, unmistakeably Derbyshire, and I like the beginnings of the tree as well.

 

Nice work.

 

Al.

[highpeakman]

I corresponded briefly with you the other day on another platform about decals for re-numbering the J94. You mentioned that you had ordered some on Ebay. I just wondered if you have received them yet and whether they look correct? I have ordered similar but am still waiting for delivery. 

 

You have really captured the feel of Derbyshire with your work above and it's helping to get me back to working on my layout and models which have been pretty much dormant over the last few months. Thanks. I have always been interested in any railways but the lines and the countryside of the Peak District always have been the main focus of that. 

[JustinDean]

8 hours ago, highpeakman said:

I corresponded briefly with you the other day on another platform about decals for re-numbering the J94. You mentioned that you had ordered some on Ebay. I just wondered if you have received them yet and whether they look correct? I have ordered similar but am still waiting for delivery. 

 

You have really captured the feel of Derbyshire with your work above and it's helping to get me back to working on my layout and models which have been pretty much dormant over the last few months. Thanks. I have always been interested in any railways but the lines and the countryside of the Peak District always have been the main focus of that. 

Hi Don! They haven’t turned up yet - just checked ebay and they haven’t been dispatched yet either. 
Thanks for the complement- this one is the least complex and smallest board that I started with the idea of building some skills and knowledge. The next board things start to get more interesting with several structures and more trackwork.

[NHY 581]

What a cracking thread, Justin.

 

And I remember your articles as well! 

 

Rob. 

[JustinDean]

7 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

What a cracking thread, Justin.

 

And I remember your articles as well! 

 

Rob. 

Thanks Rob - I’ve been enjoying following your endeavors on here also.

Good work on remembering those articles - I can’t believe that was almost 30 years ago!

[NHY 581]

1 minute ago, JustinDean said:

Thanks Rob - I’ve been enjoying following your endeavors on here also.

Good work on remembering those articles - I can’t believe that was almost 30 years ago!

 

 

Cheers Justin. Every now and again something comes along and provides a gentle reminder of the passage of time.......

 

Really enjoying this. I blame Al and Ladmanlow......

 

[JustinDean]

4 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Cheers Justin. Every now and again something comes along and provides a gentle reminder of the passage of time.......

 

Really enjoying this. I blame Al and Ladmanlow......

 

Ha! I blame Al and Geraint! This is a great place to find inspiration and help and is the closest thing to a ‘club’ I’m going to get to, so the input from the folks here is invaluable. Where else would a bunch of guys pipe up to explain the best ways to replicate a dry stone wall 18mm high :-). 

[highpeakman]

On 20/11/2020 at 18:04, JustinDean said:

Hi Don! They haven’t turned up yet - just checked ebay and they haven’t been dispatched yet either. 
Thanks for the complement- this one is the least complex and smallest board that I started with the idea of building some skills and knowledge. The next board things start to get more interesting with several structures and more trackwork.

Justin.

Have received my Wolf transfers to suit the J94 from Modelmasters. They look good to me and seem to be the size required. 

Next thing is to remove the old Hornby ones.

Involved in some remodelling of the layout at the moment but hope to do in the next few days.

Don

[JustinDean]

3 hours ago, highpeakman said:

Justin.

Have received my Wolf transfers to suit the J94 from Modelmasters. They look good to me and seem to be the size required. 

Next thing is to remove the old Hornby ones.

Involved in some remodelling of the layout at the moment but hope to do in the next few days.

Don

Mine came this morning - they look right to me too. Maybe a while till I get chance to use them while layout building continues. 

[JustinDean]

Not a lot of model making action  since the last photo....house renovation and running my business has been demanding most of my time. Stone wall building is still in progress but I’m not happy with it enough to warrant a photograph yet. I also started getting some bark onto the copper wire trees. 

[Rowsley17D]

Coming along nicely.

[JustinDean]

Managed to grab a couple of hours and finally completed a couple of runs of wall at Middleton Top. Still lots more to go!

[Alister_G]

They look really good Jay, cracking job.

 

Al.

[JustinDean]

Merry Xmas from the The Top!

 

[Alister_G]

Lovely.

 

Happy Christmas Jay.

 

Al.

[JustinDean]

I can’t access the layout for a couple of weeks so using the time to collect information on locos and stock used on the C&HPR. This is where I’m at on the spreadsheet. Everything is backed up with photographic evidence along with details found in publications on the line. I’m wondering if there’s anything I’ve missed or if any members here can add to this. For example since taking this screenshot I’ve figured out two of the MR tenders are Fowler designs but I’m still not sure on livery. Green or black?

Any info on wagons and brake vans used also most welcome!

Cheers 

Jay

[Middlepeak]

Jay,

 

Three more to add to your list - 

 

A Caledonian Pug 56020 spent a short amount of time at Cromford in the early 1950s, presumably before the J94s took over. I have a couple of photos of it shunting there in May 1952. Here's my model of it posed at Middlepeak Top.

 

 

An LMS 350HP diesel shunter (forerunner of the 08s) number 12006 was involved in trials on the line on 7th April 1959. Here's a photo of it at Parsley Hay before the run (photo - E R Morten). It later disgraced itself trying to get around Gotham!

 

 

Finally, Killers Quarry had a small Peckett 0-4-0ST, with incredibly small driving wheels. I'll try to dig out a photo of this at some stage, when I can access my albums.

 

 

Regards,

 

Geraint

[JustinDean]

12 hours ago, Middlepeak said:

Jay,

 

Three more to add to your list - 

 

A Caledonian Pug 56020 spent a short amount of time at Cromford in the early 1950s, presumably before the J94s took over. I have a couple of photos of it shunting there in May 1952. Here's my model of it posed at Middlepeak Top.

 

 

An LMS 350HP diesel shunter (forerunner of the 08s) number 12006 was involved in trials on the line on 7th April 1959. Here's a photo of it at Parsley Hay before the run (photo - E R Morten). It later disgraced itself trying to get around Gotham!

 

 

Finally, Killers Quarry had a small Peckett 0-4-0ST, with incredibly small driving wheels. I'll try to dig out a photo of this at some stage, when I can access my albums.

 

 

Regards,

 

Geraint

I was puzzled at this shot of the diesel shunter as I could have sworn I’d seen a photo of it with wasp stripes, then the penny dropped - they ran two tests.... different shunters. Glad that’s cleared up. 
Any photos of the Pug and Peckett (sounds like a pub) would be grand!

I found out on the C&HPR FB page munitions trains were ran on the line in 4 plank opens covered with tarps. Apart from limestone, water and some coal was there any other traffic I might not be aware of?

[johnd]

On 17/12/2020 at 09:39, JustinDean said:

Merry Xmas from the The Top!

 

 

The tall coal bunker needs to go it had gone when 68006 was on the CHPRly, its  easy to do .

Edited December 29, 2020 by johnd

[JustinDean]

7 minutes ago, johnd said:

 

The tall coal bunker needs to go it had gone when 68006 was on the CHPRly, its  easy to do .

I’m aware but thanks anyway! - all my stock needs sorting out for this project. Currently all locos are either out the box or unbuilt while I focus on the layout first. 
 

[Middlepeak]

Jay,

 

Here's the Peckett (Works no 1669 of 1924), taken in May 1951 (cty T G Wassell). A later view in 1955 shows it out of use in the works sidings.

 

 

Here's the Pug at Cromford in May 1952 (cty A J Cocker).

 

 

There was also a Sentinel shunter at Killers after WW2.

 

As far as the NLT numbering is concerned, the four locos went through 2 renumberings during their stay in Derbyshire.

 

7505 - 27505 - 58850

7515 - 27515 - 58856

7527 - 27527 - 58860

7530 - 27530 - 58862

 

Of the four, the 58862 was unique in retaining its original NLR chimney until the end.

 

A few thoughts on traffic. In addition to the obvious movements of stone, coal and water, bricks were conveyed from the works at Minninglow and Friden. Certainly for Friden, the raw clay was obtained locally. I presume the same applied at Minninglow. There is mention of a weekly milk shipment from Longcliffe, presumably towards Manchester, although I'm not sure when this finished. Finally, Longcliffe also had a regular inward working of sea shells from Cornwall, used in the production of chicken feed, which I believe was carried in sacks stored in covered vans.

 

I presume as well that the quarries may have had deliveries of gunpowder, but it's not obvious as to how these were carried - presumably in covered vans, but I haven't seen any photos of special gunpowder vans being used on the line.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Geraint

[JustinDean]

10 minutes ago, Middlepeak said:

Jay,

 

Here's the Peckett (Works no 1669 of 1924), taken in May 1951 (cty T G Wassell). A later view in 1955 shows it out of use in the works sidings.

 

 

Here's the Pug at Cromford in May 1952 (cty A J Cocker).

 

 

There was also a Sentinel shunter at Killers after WW2.

 

As far as the NLT numbering is concerned, the four locos went through 2 renumberings during their stay in Derbyshire.

 

7505 - 27505 - 58850

7515 - 27515 - 58856

7527 - 27527 - 58860

7530 - 27530 - 58862

 

Of the four, the 58862 was unique in retaining its original NLR chimney until the end.

 

A few thoughts on traffic. In addition to the obvious movements of stone, coal and water, bricks were conveyed from the works at Minninglow and Friden. Certainly for Friden, the raw clay was obtained locally. I presume the same applied at Minninglow. There is mention of a weekly milk shipment from Longcliffe, presumably towards Manchester, although I'm not sure when this finished. Finally, Longcliffe also had a regular inward working of sea shells from Cornwall, used in the production of chicken feed, which I believe was carried in sacks stored in covered vans.

 

I presume as well that the quarries may have had deliveries of gunpowder, but it's not obvious as to how these were carried - presumably in covered vans, but I haven't seen any photos of special gunpowder vans being used on the line.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Geraint

This is fantastic Geraint - thanks! 
I’m guessing most of the traffic you’ve outlined above headed out West so wouldn’t have come through Middleton Top? 
I don’t have any photos of vans being used on the line east of Friden - any ideas on specific vans that may have been used?  
Thanks again. 

Jay

[JustinDean]

A little help identifying stock required!

The first photo is at Longcliffe. Images of box vans seem scarce on the C&HPR and this is the clearest I’ve found so far. Are we looking at LMS or BR 12t ventilated vans, possibly painted bauxite here?

Second photo is a crop from Sheep Pasture of hoppers behind the Deeley 040. These short wheelbase hoppers seem fairly common during the later years of the line. Are they LMS 21t hoppers / BR Gannet?  Looks like two types being used - the center one has lower sides. 
Any information appreciated!

Thanks

Jay

[Middlepeak]

Jay,

 

The vans could be either for the milk shipment or the sea shell delivery. Not sure of the specifics - do you have a date for the photo? The nearest van appears to be unfitted.

 

As for the hoppers, I read somewhere that the 21 tonners were not allowed on the inclines, maybe because of their wheelbase, but more likely because a run of 2 would have exceeded the run limit of 38 tons. The ones on the photo are more likely to be LMS iron stone hoppers.

 

Regards,

 

Geraint