RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted December 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2020 Hi Jay, they are 12-ton hoppers, I think - I doubt very much they would haul a 21-ton hopper up Sheep's Pasture. This is an image I have from John Evans: Copyright John Evans - used with permission Al 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted December 30, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2020 Thanks chaps! Very helpful as ever. Onwards scouring through the photo collection.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted December 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2020 The nearest van could be an LMS D1897 ventilated van. I thought the other two, which look to be the same diagram, could be the ones that received additional diagonal strapping although they appear to have double doors, so could be a BR diagram. The LMS also built similar looking ones in the war to D12/472EB but again only had a single door. Sorry cannot be more helpful. As to the hoppers, I cannot find any LMS ones that fit the end panel so may be BR diagrams? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted December 31, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 18 hours ago, Rowsley17D said: The nearest van could be an LMS D1897 ventilated van. I thought the other two, which look to be the same diagram, could be the ones that received additional diagonal strapping although they appear to have double doors, so could be a BR diagram. The LMS also built similar looking ones in the war to D12/472EB but again only had a single door. Sorry cannot be more helpful. As to the hoppers, I cannot find any LMS ones that fit the end panel so may be BR diagrams? Thanks Jonathon - seems you’re on the money here after an evening of research. There’s some good articles online covering modelling these vans and looks like using the old Ratio kit is a good starting point to build a decent representation. The hoppers have been a little trickier. There’s a BR diagram 12t hopper that looks like the ones used on the C&HPR. The closest model to this looks like the Dapol & Bachmann RTR wagons shown below. There doesn’t seem to be any kits out there for these. I do know at least one other type of hopper was used and need to dig out images of these. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted December 31, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 These are the other hoppers. I thought these were the LMS 21t hoppers which later became BR Gannet. They’re much larger than the type illustrated above. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, JustinDean said: Thanks Jonathon - seems you’re on the money here after an evening of research. There’s some good articles online covering modelling these vans and looks like using the old Ratio kit is a good starting point to build a decent representation. The hoppers have been a little trickier. There’s a BR diagram 12t hopper that looks like the ones used on the C&HPR. The closest model to this looks like the Dapol & Bachmann RTR wagons shown below. There doesn’t seem to be any kits out there for these. I do know at least one other type of hopper was used and need to dig out images of these. The old Ratio kit is a life-like representation of D1897 and at least it looks as though the sliding door could be fully opened unlike the Bachmann ones which wouldn't get passed the diagonal strapping. The BR hopper looks a good fit and no doubt rated at 22/24T as ore is less dense than limestone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, JustinDean said: These are the other hoppers. I thought these were the LMS 21t hoppers which later became BR Gannet. They’re much larger than the type illustrated above. These are LMS D13/1673 Hopper Ballast Wagons rated at 25T. 108 were built in 1932 and became the BR Gannet (LMS Wagons vol 1 Essery) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Don't Peco (Parkside) have a kit in the process for the BR 12 ton hopper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted December 31, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gordon A said: Don't Peco (Parkside) have a kit in the process for the BR 12 ton hopper? That would be great Gordon! - a quick search online didn’t come up with anything though. Jay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted December 31, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 Had to include this while researching wagons. Photo from Cromford with a canal barge being shunted looking like it's straddling three wagons; one of which looks like a McConnel 4 wheel tender underframe. 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gordon A said: Don't Peco (Parkside) have a kit in the process for the BR 12 ton hopper? Dapol did one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Sorry, it was a 13 ton hopper kit of LNER design. https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/parkside-models-pc90.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Gordon A said: Sorry, it was a 13 ton hopper kit of LNER design. https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/parkside-models-pc90.html No need to apologise Gordon- I actually think some of these appeared on the C&HPR also! Definitely feels like I’m filling the gaps on stock used now. Apparently Peco announced this is ready for production at the virtual Warley Exhibition a few months ago so maybe they’ll appear this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2021 Seems like an etched brass kit has been produced for the BR 13t also: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Jay, The brass kit is produced by Dave Bradwell. I have two in the cupboard to build. I've also started an ironstone hopper kit from 51L - etched chassis and resin body - seen here in a part built state and in the queue for finishing in the coming months. A bit 'out of range' for Middleton Top, but confirmed seen at Friden, is is a Palbrick B, and I have a couple of etched kits for those too. It seems that the further east you go on the CHP, the more you're restricted to opens, minerals, hoppers and water tanks. I don't have the potential of an incline to play with, but I'm beginning to realise that at least Friden offers quite a bit more variety in operation. If we can get together at some stage this year, it will be interesting to compare photo collections! All the best, Geraint 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Middlepeak said: Jay, The brass kit is produced by Dave Bradwell. I have two in the cupboard to build. I've also started an ironstone hopper kit from 51L - etched chassis and resin body - seen here in a part built state and in the queue for finishing in the coming months. A bit 'out of range' for Middleton Top, but confirmed seen at Friden, is is a Palbrick B, and I have a couple of etched kits for those too. It seems that the further east you go on the CHP, the more you're restricted to opens, minerals, hoppers and water tanks. I don't have the potential of an incline to play with, but I'm beginning to realise that at least Friden offers quite a bit more variety in operation. If we can get together at some stage this year, it will be interesting to compare photo collections! All the best, Geraint I spotted the 51L kit on the Wizard Models site and came to a similar conclusion having not seen any in photos around Middleton Top - Cromford section. Nice kit though and I may still get one at some point. It seems the variety of traffic ends at Friden and Longcliffe although I have found a picture of vans at Middleton Top opening up that possibility. The nice thing about returning to the hobby is starting out from scratch and being able to get things ‘right’ from the off. Last time I checked my C&HPR folder I was up to 3gb / 2000 files of images, maps, plans etc. I’ve found I really enjoy the research part of this and the aim is to have an indexed, cross referenced library. I’m also really happy to share any of this; the same way as folks have been generous sharing their resources with me. Definitely up for a meet up in the future when we’re allowed again! Cheers Jay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 There is also this kit by Wizard models: www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wagons/brd1_163/ There is also a kit for vacuum fitted version. The Wizard web site is a pain to search. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, Gordon A said: There is also this kit by Wizard models: www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wagons/brd1_163/ There is also a kit for vacuum fitted version. The Wizard web site is a pain to search. This is the BR Diagram 1/163 hopper by 51L I mentioned in my last post. I agree, their site feels pretty clunky and is probably the victim of having a vast amount of stock added over time. To be fair to them at least you can order online - I’m still baffled some people can operate their business by mail and cheque only which I encountered earlier. I’ve not even seen a cheque for over 10 years! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 5, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2021 Based on the conversation on here I’ve got a few wagon kits ordered; hoping they’ll be a good ‘warm up’ for the loco kits I have. In the meantime I bought a secondhand built kit of the BR van which needs the couplings changing and pulled out board 2 of the layout ready for work. I’ve started producing some of the brass parts for the water tank and they’ll also be the stone crusher on this board. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2021 I’ve been busy on the cottage renovation the last two weeks which means I have a dedicated space for Middleton Top very soon. I’ve managed to grab some time inbetween getting covered in dust to make a start on the water tank. It’s the first tome I’ve made something like this and I’m using a combination of brass, plastic add and balsa wood. Keep in mind this is work in progress! 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted January 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2021 That is a very nice model of an interesting subject. Spot on Justin. Rob. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, NHY 581 said: That is a very nice model of an interesting subject. Spot on Justin. Rob. Thanks Rob and hope you’re feeling better? Still a fair way to go with this but I’m happy so far. The real thing is such a dominant structure at Middleton Top that I’m constantly surprised how small it is in 4mm scale! Scratch building like this really brings a new appreciation for some of the amazing modelling on this site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted January 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2021 Very good, it already captures the feel of the real thing. Nice work. Al. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Jay, My, that brings back memories! I think you've used exactly the same combination of materials that I used for mine, although that was a long time ago now. As you say, this is one of the real signature structures for Middleton and it looks a really convincing model - well done! As they say, here's one I made earlier ..... Regards, Geraint 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted January 23, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2021 14 hours ago, Middlepeak said: Jay, My, that brings back memories! I think you've used exactly the same combination of materials that I used for mine, although that was a long time ago now. As you say, this is one of the real signature structures for Middleton and it looks a really convincing model - well done! As they say, here's one I made earlier ..... Regards, Geraint Thanks Geraint - I spent a bit of time looking at your tank along with Robin Whittle’s on Sheep Pasture to form a benchmark of what can be achieved in 4mm scale. Hopefully I’ll be able to post a photo of the finished article within the next couple of weeks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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