Middleton Top and the C&HPR

[Middlepeak]

Interesting!  When you get started, it will be good to see a shot of all the components spread out on the workbench. What are the boiler fittings like?

 

G

[JustinDean]

28 minutes ago, Middlepeak said:

Interesting!  When you get started, it will be good to see a shot of all the components spread out on the workbench. What are the boiler fittings like?

 

G

Yep I can do that. The boiler it self comes rolled but to be honest it’s not the smoothest! There’s some slight distortion around the cut out for the tank. Should be easy to sort. The etchings look good quality with sharp detail. There’s no chimney, dome etc - probably showing my newbie lack of knowledge here but would that be part of the Branchlines detailing pack?

 

Jay

 

[JustinDean]

I’ve spent the best part of a week battling with points and motors. First of all the crossover points refused to throw. Repositioning the Seep motor on one cured that- just 2mm adjustment was all that was needed. The other point was a nightmare. No amount of motor fiddling seemed to make any difference. Unmounted, the motor would throw and the point’s tiebar moved freely l, then once assembled nothing. Out of frustration I removed the spring to the tiebar and then the motor would move it. Seems the motor isn’t producing enough power to deal with force of the spring. This is despite installing a much larger CDU. The Y point at the end of the layout is the last problematic one to go. On this one the motor isn’t throwing as it should; there’s just a slight twitch in one direction. I’ve tried three different motors and ran continuity checks from motor to control panel and everything checks out. This is starting to drive me a bit insane so I’m going to put it to one side for a while and distract myself with another part of the layout.

Note to self: in future build my own points and invest in good quality motors. 

[Mick Bonwick]

I understand your frustration completely. All of my fiddle yard points are SEEP ones, and I had a fair bit of trouble with them, too. Eventually I devised a method if fixing them that made the chance of success a good deal higher. The positioning of the motor is crucial and it must be completely in line with the tiebar and set perfectly central. The plastic housing for the coils must not interfere with the free movement of the sliding bar. The operating pin must be perfectly vertical. The way that I devised to achieve all of this was to drill a small hole through the baseboard 5mm away from each end of the point tie bar, thus allowing me to see from the underneath where the tie bar was. I drew a line connecting the two holes so that I could see the central path while the point motor was being placed. I made a jig (that I now cannot find) that kept the point blades central (neither open nor closed) while positioning the motor underneath and ensured that the point operating pin was central as well. You need to be sure, also, that the operating pin does not rub the sides of the hole drilled for it.

 

You have probably done all this, but I thought I'd mention what I found to be the best way of ensuring success. My fiddle yard has 38 of the darned things and I wish I'd worked all this out before I'd reached no. 10.

[JustinDean]

25 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

I understand your frustration completely. All of my fiddle yard points are SEEP ones, and I had a fair bit of trouble with them, too. Eventually I devised a method if fixing them that made the chance of success a good deal higher. The positioning of the motor is crucial and it must be completely in line with the tiebar and set perfectly central. The plastic housing for the coils must not interfere with the free movement of the sliding bar. The operating pin must be perfectly vertical. The way that I devised to achieve all of this was to drill a small hole through the baseboard 5mm away from each end of the point tie bar, thus allowing me to see from the underneath where the tie bar was. I drew a line connecting the two holes so that I could see the central path while the point motor was being placed. I made a jig (that I now cannot find) that kept the point blades central (neither open nor closed) while positioning the motor underneath and ensured that the point operating pin was central as well. You need to be sure, also, that the operating pin does not rub the sides of the hole drilled for it.

 

You have probably done all this, but I thought I'd mention what I found to be the best way of ensuring success. My fiddle yard has 38 of the darned things and I wish I'd worked all this out before I'd reached no. 10.

Thanks Mick - yes they’re very sensitive to alignment! Before fitting I placed the motor into the point from above, blades and pin centred, then marked out fixing points then drilled from above. This performed a similar function to the jig you described. The motors are then mounted on standoffs which in theory should allow for small errors. One of the main issues I’ve perceived is their inability to make a full movement when power is applied and this is normally due to one of the issues you’ve pointed out above or the CDU not producing enough power for the solenoid to be effective.
Fitting 38 of them must really try the patience! I only have 5. I can see in the near future I’ll be looking at the Cobalt and Tortoise motors that are available; they’re jus a bit bloody expensive!

 

Jay

[Mick Bonwick]

I lied. I can find the jig.

 

Pieces of plastic card assembled after measuring each piece individually to achieve a fairly precise positioning tool. The sides hold the blades centrally and the top slot is dead centre if you line it up with the tie bar.

 

 

[Mick Bonwick]

Ah! Our posts crossed. I came to the same decision. All the points on the scenic section are Cobalts, but there are not 38 of them!

 

I have to say, though, that since they were all 'fettled', I have not had one single problem with them. Because they were cheap, I bought quite a few spares, and planned to make them easily replaceable. I have not yet needed to replace any, although I have had to install microswitches to fix frog polarity problems when relying on the built-in switches.

[JustinDean]

4 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

Ah! Our posts crossed. I came to the same decision. All the points on the scenic section are Cobalts, but there are not 38 of them!

 

I have to say, though, that since they were all 'fettled', I have not had one single problem with them. Because they were cheap, I bought quite a few spares, and planned to make them easily replaceable. I have not yet needed to replace any, although I have had to install microswitches to fix frog polarity problems when relying on the built-in switches.

The frog switching issue is another reason I put mine on standoffs. The throw of the motor is much greater than a Peco OO gauge point and the solenoid needs the full movement for the switch to work. Mounting on standoffs extends the pin and allows for a small amount of flex, enough for the solenoid to fully operate. 
I’m interested to hear how the Cobalts have worked out? Are these easier to install?

Thanks

Jay

[Middlepeak]

Jay,

 

I've got some spare Tortoises here, which I won't use. Do you want them?

 

G

[JustinDean]

2 minutes ago, Middlepeak said:

Jay,

 

I've got some spare Tortoises here, which I won't use. Do you want them?

 

G

That would be fantastic! Thanks Geraint!

 

Jay

[Mick Bonwick]

Jay,

 

There is a bit more about Cobalts and SEEPs on each of pages 5, 17 and 18 in the Easton thread. There are several versions of Cobalt and some are trouble free. If I had the opportunity to start again I think that I would choose Tortoises. I have used those on another layout and never had any trouble with any of them. They are larger and noisier than Cobalts, but neither of those attributes would be of importance to me.

[Mick Bonwick]

1 hour ago, JustinDean said:

I’m interested to hear how the Cobalts have worked out? Are these easier to install?

 

 

Their positioning is less critical and, yes, they are easier to install. They come with a mounting template that helps with the drilling of holes in the right places. There is also some scope for repositioning after installation, proven from experience.

[JustinDean]

1 hour ago, Mick Bonwick said:

Jay,

 

There is a bit more about Cobalts and SEEPs on each of pages 5, 17 and 18 in the Easton thread. There are several versions of Cobalt and some are trouble free. If I had the opportunity to start again I think that I would choose Tortoises. I have used those on another layout and never had any trouble with any of them. They are larger and noisier than Cobalts, but neither of those attributes would be of importance to me.

I’ll have a look back through your thread, thanks for pointing me to that. Geraint has very kindly just emailed me and is sending me enough Tortoise motors to replace all the Seep ones. Happy days!

 

Jay

 

[JustinDean]

Made a start on the quarry buildings. Although the larger structure appears in a few photos there’s very little detail to work from and dimensions have taken a little educated guess work. At this point the proportions look right and I now need to add a gangway, rails and stairs before painting. Photos reveal it was usually painted black but in a couple it looks like red oxide...I’ll be going for a very worn and rusty black building. 

[MrWolf]

Every model railway should have a bit of rusty corrugated iron, it's a kind of unwritten law.

[JustinDean]

5 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Every model railway should have a bit of rusty corrugated iron, it's a kind of unwritten law.

Is this rusty enough?

[MrWolf]

23 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

Is this rusty enough?

 

Very close, but I'm not seeing any daylight through the sheeting. 

[JustinDean]

Beginnings of Middleton Top engine shed. This is a few hours work with obechi wood and plasticard along with a couple of etched brass windows made for me by Geraint.

 I’m yet to decide just how decrepit this will appear. It was burnt down just past the turn of the century then high winds blew it apart some 60 years later. It’s one of the few things at Middleton Top that really defines the era depicted. 1950’s photos illustrate a fairly intact shed painted black with red doors and this is where I’m leaning towards. By the 60’s sections of the roof had disappeared and substantial bracing had been used inside to keep it upright. Another interesting feature was the corner of the enginemans cottage actually protrudes into the shed! The cottage still exists and you can see where the stone corner was flattened to increase clearances. 

[Alister_G]

That looks spot on mate, immediately recognisable.

 

Love the quarry buildings too, I do like a bit of wriggly tin.

 

Al.

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, Alister_G said:

That looks spot on mate, immediately recognisable.

 

Definitely and well done for modelling it!

 

1 hour ago, Alister_G said:

 

Love the quarry buildings too, I do like a bit of wriggly tin.

 

Al.

 

I thought that was just my peculiar obsession!

[JustinDean]

Thanks chaps.
Considering the basics for one wall took the best part of a day it may be a while till I can show something finished. I’d intended to have the second board further along before tackling board three structures but the combination of the engine shed, cottage and engine house really give the location its identity so I couldn’t resist making a start. 

[JustinDean]

The layout has got to be moved from the dining room today so yesterday I started forming up the landscape/loading docks around the quarry siding area, plonking buildings as I went along to check things are working visually. So far I’ve been using foam board and Paslight; next cellotex insulation will form up the rougher areas before plastering the whole lot.  The siding itself will be buried past the fence so only the rail tops will be visible. This won’t be functioning on the layout as the prototype was taken out of use some time before the period in modelling and gives the opportunity for a heavily overgrown track and plenty of rusty tin. 

[Alister_G]

That looks great Jay,

 

Here's a view of the real thing to compare:

 

Copyright John Evans on Flickr - used with permission.

 

I reckon you've nailed it so far mate.

 

Al.

 

[MrWolf]

It would be an interesting project trying to model the ruined building dead centre right on the bottom edge of the picture.

I like the drunken telegraph poles too and is that on of the BR style concrete privys leaning over in the brambles to the right rear of that neat cream coloured shed?

[JustinDean]

38 minutes ago, Alister_G said:

That looks great Jay,

 

Here's a view of the real thing to compare:

 

Copyright John Evans on Flickr - used with permission.

 

I reckon you've nailed it so far mate.

 

Al.

 

Thanks Al!

I do love a John Evans photo and they’re pretty much the reason I got into modelling again.