Next SI Project - Sentinel!

[5050]

Some more photos showing actual progress.

 

The footplate etc. with boiler and brake standard.  Both very basic representations as they won't hardly be seen - but I know they're there!  (and so do you now!)  Brake standard is a small piece of old paintbrush handle with a small etched handwheel from a fret I didn't realise I had.  Goodness knows the origin!

 

Now with the main body on (but still not finally attached as yet).  Now you see them -

 

 

Now you don't!

 

 

The AG buffers, handrails and Dapol cab steps and tank filler are fitted .  Chimney, roof ventilator and whistle still to go.  I can't decide whether or not it would be worth trying to hide the bright brassiness of the worm gear.  It's not very visible with the roof on.

 

And painting.  As this is not a diesel or a conventional steam loco I would like to get away from my usual 'corporate' blue and green and rather fancy a dark red(dish) shade, or perhaps a brown like 'Geoffrey'  (L & Y coach tan I remember but tin l o n g gone!).  When model shop opens I might pluck up courage to go and have a trawl through the Tamiya shelves.

 

 

[Ruston]

It's looking good but it would look even better if you made the water tank. It'll cover the motor and then you can put real coal in without the need for that plastic thing and its brim-full bunkers. I'm sure the tank shouldn't have that wooden planking effect on the top, too.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Ruston

[5050]

5 hours ago, Ruston said:

It's looking good but it would look even better if you made the water tank. It'll cover the motor and then you can put real coal in without the need for that plastic thing and its brim-full bunkers. I'm sure the tank shouldn't have that wooden planking effect on the top, too.

I've spent half an hour at least looking at photos of Sentinels on tinterweb and not found ONE that shows the top of the bunker.  In fact, there seem to be detail differences between many individual locos (sandbox size, position of guard irons, roof ventilator, handrails on bunker side, height of water filler, etc.)  Quite a few have coal piled up and over the top of the tank as well and at least one has additional wooden 'rails' around the edge of the bunker for extra capacity.  I would like confirmation of Dave's comment about the 'planking' if anyone can help.   I thinks it adds a bit of interest to what is otherwise a rather 'plain' little loco.  I wonder where Dapol got the idea from? Is it only something that has appeared in preservation?

[PenrithBeacon]

Paul,

 

Like this lots, really nice.

 

Re the comments about the bunker/tank,  I just covered it on my Model Rail/Dapol one with coal as per photos; job done. Visibility in the cab might be improved if you wanted to (I didn't) by painting the inside, black below the window sill, white above, but then you might want (need) to cover the motor. IIRC the machinery driving the wheels in in the position of the motor, but it's more compact.

 

Mine still needs a bit of titivating but I'm happy with it

 

[Michael Edge]

I've found one top photo of a Y3 but as usual it has coal piled all over and round the water filler. I can't imagine what the planks are supposed to be.

[5050]

15 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I've found one top photo of a Y3 but as usual it has coal piled all over and round the water filler. I can't imagine what the planks are supposed to be.

Possibly the same one I found.  Lowestoft  sleeper works or similar?

[PenrithBeacon]

3 hours ago, 5050 said:

I've spent half an hour at least looking at photos of Sentinels on tinterweb and not found ONE that shows the top of the bunker.  In fact, there seem to be detail differences between many individual locos (sandbox size, position of guard irons, roof ventilator, handrails on bunker side, height of water filler, etc.)  Quite a few have coal piled up and over the top of the tank as well and at least one has additional wooden 'rails' around the edge of the bunker for extra capacity.  I would like confirmation of Dave's comment about the 'planking' if anyone can help.   I thinks it adds a bit of interest to what is otherwise a rather 'plain' little loco.  I wonder where Dapol got the idea from? Is it only something that has appeared in preservation?

It's potentially an original feature. You can imagine that the Sentinel drawing office took a look at how the coal was piled high on the earlier designs and decided that the tank needed a little protection from people throwing the stuff onto the engine. Oak planking would provide that at a reasonable cost.

I believe there's an archive of Sentinel drawings somewhere, but I can't remember where. It could provide the answer. 

[Moxy]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I believe there's an archive of Sentinel drawings somewhere, but I can't remember where. It could provide the answer. 

 

The Science Museum has the archive for Sentinel Road Vehicles, perhaps they hold the loco archives as well?

[Michael Edge]

12 hours ago, 5050 said:

Possibly the same one I found.  Lowestoft  sleeper works or similar?

I don't think so, it's 68155, not a departmental one. I'll send it to you in a pm.

[5050]

16 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

It's potentially an original feature. You can imagine that the Sentinel drawing office took a look at how the coal was piled high on the earlier designs and decided that the tank needed a little protection from people throwing the stuff onto the engine. Oak planking would provide that at a reasonable cost.

I believe there's an archive of Sentinel drawings somewhere, but I can't remember where. It could provide the answer. 

Good thought that!  I'll take it on board and if anyone queries the planks - that's what I'll tell 'em

[david65061]

In the book Sentinel Locomotives and Sentinel-Cammell Railcars by the industrial railway society there are some pictures of partially dismantled sentinel locos and the coal bunker is lined with wooden planks. not a huge leap to think they might also have covered the top of the water tank next to the bunker in wooden planks as well.

 

David 

[5050]

A couple of shots of this mornings efforts.

 

I stuck a short length of black insulating tape over the worm to help hide it inside the cab.  Still a bit shiny so some dirty matt black will come into play.

 

 

The body received a good coat of my rapidly diminishing can of Red Oxide primer.  I then thought that this would actually be a reasonable colour in itself so I then gave it a good coat of Testor's Dullcote from a spray can.  I think it'll be OK with a bit of weathering etc.

 

 

Buffer beams received a coat of matt red, the roof had rain strips fitted and then a coat of browny black.  Chimney and roof ventilator then fitted.  Still to fit glazing, couplings (probably 3 - link but Dinghams are an option), a crewmember hanging out, real coal and then general dirtying/weathering.

 

Not long now!

[H16LSWR]

Attached cruel enlargement of a works photograph that shows the top of the water tank on a CEDG locomotive. The 4mm/7mm RTR models recently on the market were based on scans of Sentinel 6515. This locomotive had wooden planking fitted over the tank in preservation by a former owner to stop loose coal damaging the tank top. It should really have been removed when the loco was scanned to give a correct representation of the tank but was unfortunately left in place. 

 

As can be seen from the scan the top of the tank has a circular metal cover that could be unbolted to allow inspection/cleaning of the interior. The tank itself was held in place by two wrought iron straps running front to rear each side of the tank body. 

 

The Sentinel drawing number for the tank is 6147 and copies are obtainable for a fee from The Sentinel Drivers Club archive officer www.sentineldriversclub.com

 

It should be possible to make a good representation of the tank in plastic or metal and in my opinion this would improve the appearance of the model considerably.

 

[5050]

That is excellent, thank you!  I was going to stick with the Dapol fitting and, this afternoon, painted it ready to finally fit tomorrow.  That will now all change.  Do you know what the corrugated/louvered item is in the foreground section?  I thought both sides were/are open for coal.  The far side is open but why not the near one?  I'l also need to detail the top of the filler as the Dapol one is plain.  Are the securing straps running along the top side edges of the tank?

 

Anyone want a nicely weathered bunker top? (complete with beautifully weathered planks...........................)

[H16LSWR]

Both sides of the body had bunkers for coal. The enlargement I used has distorted the perspective to make it look as if the RH bunker is not there. Attached (another) cruel enlargement of my own vintage 1978 NuCast plastic bodied Sentinel showing my attempt to represent the tank and bunkers as they should have been. The two water tank straps incorrectly show rivet heads. There should be a row of rivets each side of the tank body where the top was riveted to the sides. The straps were just plain 3inch wrought iron.  Forty-two years on I still need to finish, paint and letter this model! Not sure if the Tenshodo spud bogie will still work?

[5050]

On 07/06/2020 at 11:09, Ruston said:

It's looking good but it would look even better if you made the water tank. It'll cover the motor and then you can put real coal in without the need for that plastic thing and its brim-full bunkers. I'm sure the tank shouldn't have that wooden planking effect on the top, too.

Looks like Dave was correct.  Tomorrow morning's job sorted then.  There's a view of the Middleton's Sentinel under repair (?) showing the tank loose in the bunker space - but it looks as if there are lots of round holes in the top?  Or am I reading it wrong?  And the corners look square not rounded?

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/Y/y1y3.php

 

Towards the bottom of the page.

 

Just goes to show how even a simple little loco like the Sentinel can turn up all sorts of 'points of interest'

 

BTW, I didn't realise until I saw H16LSWR and 46444 models that the Nucast one was a plastic body.  I reckon the Branchlines one being whitemetal should have more 'natural' hauling power.  It's quite heavy for its size, more than adequate for my needs anyway!

Edited June 9, 2020 by 5050

[Regularity]

54 minutes ago, 5050 said:

Looks like Dave was correct.

He usually is!

[Ruston]

Put it this way, I've never seen one with planks on the tank and there were no planks on the one at the Middleton Railway, when I used to work on it.

[PenrithBeacon]

13 hours ago, 5050 said:

Looks like Dave was correct.  

...

https://www.lner.info/locos/Y/y1y3.php

...

It's good to be right!

The photo shows that the top of the tank is higher than the bunkers, or is it resting on something for storage?

Cheers

[PenrithBeacon]

I've sent an email to the Science Museum asking if they have the Sentinel archive with a view to tracking down this planking issue. There must be a good reason why the Dapol model has planking, it's not the sort of thing you can invent!

Cheers

 

EDIT: I've just re-read all the posts on this page and now I understand why the planking is there 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by PenrithBeacon

[Phil Traxson]

14 hours ago, 5050 said:

Looks like Dave was correct.  Tomorrow morning's job sorted then.  There's a view of the Middleton's Sentinel under repair (?) showing the tank loose in the bunker space - but it looks as if there are lots of round holes in the top?  Or am I reading it wrong?  And the corners look square not rounded?

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/Y/y1y3.php

 

Towards the bottom of the page.

 

Just goes to show how even a simple little loco like the Sentinel can turn up all sorts of 'points of interest'

 

BTW, I didn't realise until I saw H16LSWR and 46444 models that the Nucast one was a plastic body.  I reckon the Branchlines one being whitemetal should have more 'natural' hauling power.  It's quite heavy for its size, more than adequate for my needs anyway!

Do not take everything in the above link as gospel, the description of the engine and boiler states the cylinders were either side of the boiler which is total nonsense.

   The engine unit was totally independant of the boiler and set, on its gearbox and sump, in the centre of the of the loco between the axles, the boiler was outside the wheelbase at the end of the loco at the opposite end of the loco to the bunker/water tank, poor design there as you had to carry the shovel of coal the length of the cab past the engine and controls to fire the boiler.

   If you can have sight of a copy of the 1970's reprint of  "Sentinel Patent locomotives and concrete cases", which was Sentinel's 1931 sales publication/catalogue, there are diagrams and photo's of the separate parts of the loco's and the internal layout. Unfortunately no photos of the top of the bunker/water tank, I've just looked!

    I can't scan any of this onto the forum due to copy write issues, it's owned by Rolls Royce who are particularly keen on such things. How ever the book was published by EP Publishing in 1974 and it's ISBN 0 85409 958 1 for any one interested in trying to obtain a copy, mine is definitely NOT for sale!

Edited June 10, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[5050]

Hmm, well, in my ongoing constant search for authenticity (stop laughing at the back!!) I've made a new bunker top this morning - and here it is -

 

 

The lower side sections are for the coal obviously and the side wings are to stop it pouring into the cab while I'm 'filling up'.  As the Dapol filler is well and truly fixed I've used the kit one which does have the details of the catch etc. moulded in which the Dapol one lacks.  I wonder why?  Next is to stick it in, paint and then coal.

 

Still got 4 window to glaze and then - FINIS!

 

I think...............

[PenrithBeacon]

1 hour ago, Phil Traxson said:

... How ever the book was published by EP Publishing in 1974 and it's ISBN 0 85409 958 1 for any one interested in trying to obtain a copy, mine is definitely NOT for sale!

http://www.bookfinder4u.com/IsbnSearch.aspx?isbn=0854099581&mode=direct&second_search=true

 

Ouch expensive!

[Phil Traxson]

Mine cost me £7.00, 20 + years ago but worth it for the drawings and photos.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[5050]

Phew!  After all this I think I'm there.  Well, 99.5% there anyway.  Only the coupling links to fit and then stick all the body parts together.  The crew member has been painted and put in place.  He is a Modelu figure and someone I'm very familiar with.  In fact I see him every day, especially when I get up in the morning.....................  He looks rather tired, perhaps he should consider retiring, I can recommend it.

 

 

What next?  I think it will have to be the High Level Pannier chassis seeing as how I've started it, I might as well finish it!  As for industrials, the next will probably be my Peckett chassis from Gordon A.  The body is currently in the Ruston Foundry and Engineering Company's works being lightly 'distressed'.  I'm sure it will be wondrous to behold when it returns.