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Leeds Victoria, Dewsbury Midland and Bradford London Rd a never finished oo layout


Barry O
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Temporary storage yard

 

Until the layout was complete (giving both an end to end and round and round network) we needed somewher to send trains too and to get them back.

A large traverser was built. It could hold 10 ( or more?) coach trains and was very long. To allow it to slide easily Charley Petty (who worked for Bearing Services Limited at the time ) managed to obtain some ball bearings. Another member (Steve Roberts) set up the angle iron “V” for the balls to run in. A big problem was that sometimes the “balls” escaped - generally when used by someone who didn't realise the balls were not captive). This meant the traverser would drop a quarter of inch and that would stop everything until the balls could be returned to the V rails. It was difficult to carry about as it was very long albeit it did come in two parts! 

 

Trains would be run onto the moving part. Loco uncoupled and then removed.  Another loco would then be attached ready for the train to go back at some point. You had to take care moving the traverser top into position.

 

When we no longer needed the fiddle yard, after a Leeds Show in the Corn Exchange the  fiddle yard “accidently" fell into the River next to the Adelphi Pub in Leeds.

 

Some lessons learned...

  1.  don't have a traverser that has not captive moving parts
  2. don't have a traverser that is long and unmanageable
  3. as a temporary item, the reverser must be made accurately and must be fool proof

Baz

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Barry O said:

Temporary storage yard

 

Until the layout was complete (giving both an end to end and round and round network) we needed somewher to send trains too and to get them back.

A large traverser was built. It could hold 10 ( or more?) coach trains and was very long. To allow it to slide easily Charley Petty (who worked for Bearing Services Limited at the time ) managed to obtain some ball bearings. Another member (Steve Roberts) set up the angle iron “V” for the balls to run in. A big problem was that sometimes the “balls” escaped - generally when used by someone who didn't realise the balls were not captive). This meant the traverser would drop a quarter of inch and that would stop everything until the balls could be returned to the V rails. It was difficult to carry about as it was very long albeit it did come in two parts! 

 

Trains would be run onto the moving part. Loco uncoupled and then removed.  Another loco would then be attached ready for the train to go back at some point. You had to take care moving the traverser top into position.

 

When we no longer needed the fiddle yard, after a Leeds Show in the Corn Exchange the  fiddle yard “accidently" fell into the River next to the Adelphi Pub in Leeds.

 

Some lessons learned...

  1.  don't have a traverser that has not captive moving parts
  2. don't have a traverser that is long and unmanageable
  3. as a temporary item, the reverser must be made accurately and must be fool proof

Baz

 

 

 

4. Don't leave Charlie Petty in charge of your balls.

 

Mike.

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36 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

4. Don't leave Charlie Petty in charge of your balls.

 

Mike.

I can't remember him ever taking charge of the traverser!

baz

Edited by Barry O
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10 hours ago, Barry O said:

Until the layout was complete (giving both an end to end and round and round network) we needed somewher to send trains too and to get them back.

I thought we ditched (literally) the traverser once we'd got to Dewsbury, or is my memory playing tricks (again)?

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Control Panels and electrical systems

 

There was a very large control panel for the station and its environs. A smaller, separate one was fitted for the Goods Yard.

 

These panels had a wooden frame and had a formica top with the  track plan painted on. Each Section was a different colour and each section had a 3 way switch ...left controller, off, right hand controller - classic Cab control. This was very helpful as every piece of track could be controlled by either controller.

 

The switches came from a variety of sources - war surplus, GPO and "unknown". They were tough and I can't remember one failing. @Michael Edge has explained the use of "Black Sections" on the layout. Hopefully he can copy that in here as it is a very useful system

 

Point control made use of H&M SM3 point motors. These were fired using a probe being touched onto a stud on the control panel. each stud being placed on the track plan in the location of the point on the layout. A large Capacitor was fitted in the "power box" to allow you to move the probe down route of the next train with now worries about the motors not firing - it really was one flowing movement.

 

We also had a set of "link" switches.. in this case these linked each of the mainlines to the fiddle yard. These allowed you to drive straight from the fiddle yard into the station. Similarly the fiddle yard could drive trains in..it also meant you could drive freight trains on to the freight line ready for the next available path into the goods yard. These are still in use  on a number of layouts. If you forgot to turn the link off...well all sorts could start happening..trains moving unannounced.. generally resulting in the cry of "turn you flipping Links off!!" followed by all operators making a dive to check their link switches had been reset.

 

 Despite testing and adjusting the point motors we had a number of problems at our first Show at Leeds.

The major problem was the switch fitted to the top plate of each motor used to change the polarity of the point frog, We tried turning the plates over..in the end we fitted separate microswitches. I think the first ones were from Whistons.. along lost  provider of ..well just about everything.

 

We also found that the most recent H&Ms had plastic coil formers... these didn't always operate as well as the older metal frames coils. The newer ones have white coil formers...

 

While the layout and panels on Victoria were wired by @Nicktoix  and Mike Cole later stations were wired by Nick.

 

Mike Cole fitted a train detection system. While we never got it to work we could give anyone putting their hand on the track a big whack of electricity.

 

Our controllers were all prototype "Q Drivers". The hand set was made from a GRP moulding taken from a Heinz salad spread jar, It was fitted with a reversing switch and a logarithmic slider. A large lump of rod was also included for sue as the point probe. The hand set was permanently linked by cable to the control box. This had a red lamp (lit when a short was detected) and a green lamp ( which lit when the controller "detected" a train) the detection circuit was interesting as  @St Enodoc knows...his Lima King had a little trip of its own.

 

All the baseboards and control panels were wired together using large connectors and cables. Lesson

learnt..single bell wire is not ideal for wiring exhibition layouts!

 

Baz

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Barry O said:

The hand set was made from a GRP moulding taken from a Heinz salad spread jar, It was fitted with a reversing switch and a logarithmic slider.

 

Photos to follow, although mine were the deluxe version with a thumbwheel not a slider. Years of experiencing "operator's thumb" led to that spec change.

 

40 minutes ago, Barry O said:

his Lima King had a little trip of its own.

 

Yes, even when the controllers were off there was enough current in the detector circuit to give pancake motors a little nudge. One one occasion my King (6026 of course) ended up in the Victoria turntable pit.

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We still use the detect circuit on all LMRS controllers and it will do the same thing with some Portescap fitted locos - you just have to remember to switch the section off when the loco has stopped.

The green light on the controller (I think Victoria was the first application of this) is absolutely invaluable for operation if it's used like this.

Before moving a train:

1  make sure the direction switch on the controller is on (either way)

2  check that the green light is off

3  set all the route

4  switch any required link section(s) on and check that the green light doesn't come on - this would show that something else was connected.

5  switch on the section where your intended loco is - at this point only, the green light should come on

6  drive away

There is also a red light which tells you you have done something wrong....

Other commercial controllers have a similar green light which tells you absolutely nothing....

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Other controllers have a red or green light which tells you you have turned the power output from the controller on...as you say fairly useless unless you want to know the controller outputs should be live.

Baz

Edited by Barry O
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Operation

 

In the early stages with trains shuttling to and from the traverser operation was quite intense.

 

We "borrowed" some of Mike Coles stock and diesels from Sundown and Sprawling. A full Pullman train with a Deltic looked very impressive. (The Deltic had cast lead noses and two Q Kits bogies each with a flywheel) 

In addition  a number of members chipped in stock - not always of the correct prototype...

 

Intersepersed with mainline trains the Blue Pullman made appearances along with DMUs and freight trains for the yard. One 2 car unit was unpowered. If left in a platform on its own it could cause angst to operators who couldn't get it to move.

 

A typical sequence was

 

Passenger train leaves Traverser. Station operator would set the incoming route (after checking with his fellow operator that this wouldn't cause a problems. Using the lInk switch the station operator would then drive the train in, uncouple at the platform end and turn the train loco off.  The train could then be taken to the carriage sidings..or..more likely another train loco would be put on the other end of the train. (with banked trains the banker would be dropped off once the incoming train had got back on the "flat".

 

When a passenger train was ready to leave the driver would set the route (making sure he explained this to his colleague) warn the traverser operator that a train was coming and then set off. As the train moved down the platform the original train engine would be following out of  the platform up to the starter signal where it would be held until it could be worked across to the loco yard.

 

Train were cycled through to make sure there was always something on the move. 

 

While this was going on the Goods yard would be being shunted (a favourite shunting engine on this task fro me was a Ks LMS Outside frames Kirtley 0-6-0.

 

The other station operator may have been moving stock from/to the carriage sidings, returning the banker to the bottom of the hill, turning train engines, sending trains or any other minor task (parcel trains/dmu  shunting etc.).

 

As shown below..Steve Noble is operating the Station.

 

1683183728_SteveNobleshuntingVictoria.jpg.d36e20413f9d8c58971906290b44962e.jpg

 

In this shot you can see a Mike Cole Deltic (with its Pullman train behind), a English Electric Type 3, a set of Graham Farish suburbans with an unidentified tank loco on the buffers. A set of Trix Mark 1 coaches (not quite OO but these ran very well) with a Lima King (coaches and locos from St Enodoc), another set of suburbans and the aforementioned Kirtley owned by Nicktoix.

 

 

Nichtoix also provided a Ks Black 5 - but in those days it was in LMS black...I have "updated it for use on Capel en le Frith and other layouts.

 

image.png.f8d16ae29b87442e1061f5cd3194fd8a.png

 

 

Baz

 

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Those Farish suburbans were pretty good body mouldings, although the bogies were a bit weird (inside bearings on the ones I had). Mine also had pressed steel roofs with no detail whatsoever.

 

Second photo here:

 

 

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The photo is probably from the 2nd time the layout went to Leeds Exhibition as it includes Signals (details coming soon) and St Enodoc's King.

 

Having had discussions with others as few more details emerged.

 

Mike Cole provided a Pullman set - he used KD couplings so these were not compatible with other stock. He provided a Deltic (solid lead cast ends, 2 motor bogies), a Baby Deltic, Falcon and Kestrel. ( very up to date! and very powerful complete with 2 Japanese motors and large flywheels)

 

In addition a wide variety of coaches were available as well as srcatch built LMS wagons courtesy of Nicktoix.

 

AMong other locos we did have a blue Stanier Duchess, 4Fs, 3Fs a Fowler Crab (again from Nicktoix which I now have- it is now in BR lined black with a Mike Edge built chassis), a Hornby Dublo EE Shunter, a Co Bo and various other locos.

 

Before the show concern was voiced about how the layout may or may not operate. As it happens the operators talked to each other so that wasn't a problem. BUT the two big problems werer the inability to get trains from the fiddle yard into the station in one go, I quote from the Notes in our November 1977 Newsletter

 

"The stock needs sorting out too. The locos seemed to be the cause of very few problems  but the coaches were really troublesome."

 

 

Lessons learned...

 

Stock must be checked before putting it into use at an Exhibition

Always have spare stock you know works!

 

Baz

 

 

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6 hours ago, Barry O said:

The photo is probably from the 2nd time the layout went to Leeds Exhibition as it includes Signals (details coming soon) and St Enodoc's King.

Not sure. Our first show was 1976 and Victoria wasn't there, 00 being represented by Wallgate and Denroyd. 1977 was Victoria's first show I think, which is where I took these photos. 1978 was after we graduated but I was there and I'm sure you were too.

 

These photos of the infamous King and Trix coaches were definitely taken at the 1977 show coz the date is of course stamped on the Kodachrome slide mount.

 

376_6026_King_John_on_Leeds_Victoria_turntable_7710.jpg.473fd2255f0818bb41a00236a8ce1c35.jpg

 

377_6026_King_John_passing_Leeds_Victoria_signal_box_7710.jpg.ba00d6c4829ab2573dd12880845898e2.jpg

 

378_6026_King_John_at_Leeds_Victoria_7710.jpg.0139439a5adc40dc69d87b50574141a2.jpg

 

That last one gives you a nice segue into signals!

 

I've got some more from the 1980 show - I'll save those for later.

 

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having had a look at the photos (and brightening them up a bit.. more detail emerges..

 

429888338_378_6026_King_John_at_Leeds_Victoria_7710.jpg.0139439a5adc40dc69d87b50574141a2(2).jpg.b1889600711f217f15128ce93f7d28b5.jpg

 

116808887_KingJohnonwayin(2).jpg.46b0b68afc55c1d58ed21f5595f87f52.jpg

 

You can just make out the traverser as part of the  L Shape. Carriage sidings have some interesting visitors!

 

and yes this was 1977 St Enodoc. I thought we built the signals later.

 

Talking of which.. the Signals. The Signals (and their positions) for the layout were a labour of love. Somewhere I still have the Signal "Book" provided by St Enodoc.

 

The Signals were a mix but we tended to base them on ex L&Y signals. (a 3 doll  one is shown in the first photo above.).

 

All were made form hacked about Ratio kits with bits of plasticard as required. While the arms would move they were never motorised. We made these in my University room in Lupton Hall in Headingley. At one point I found out that if dropped a scalpel  never catch it with your leg (I still have the scar!) Some of the signals still exist. I will dig some out and photograph them. To make them easier to "plant" on the layout each one had a number painted on their bases which was  tagged in the Signals Book. These all had "L X" where X is a number..

 

The signals did cause a stir with the "non standard" signals not like the usual run of the mill BR Type signals .

Baz

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Thanks for brightening the photos. I"ll save those if you don't mind.

 

One of the visitors in the carriage sidings looks like my K's 40' brake van, which is now running (or soon will be) on @gwrrob's A Nod to Brent.

 

Signals were built in Jubilee Summer after second-year exams. If you hadn't mentioned the scalpel I was going to. All I'll add is that Callum and TIm are lucky to exist...

 

The signals were a mixture of Ratio LNWR, LMS and LNER kits with some butchered GWR arms to represent the L&Y lower quadrants if I recall correctly. This batch were a joint effort - those for Dewsbury and Bradford were all built by Baz.

 

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It could be my K's 40ft brake van, certainly my scratchbuilt Cravens DMU - aka the growler - and one of my Triang Met Cams creeping into shot (one of these is the infamous unpowered two car set. The K's van still runs, I still have the DMUs here but they have nowhere to run these days.

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1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

It could be my K's 40ft brake van, certainly my scratchbuilt Cravens DMU - aka the growler - and one of my Triang Met Cams creeping into shot (one of these is the infamous unpowered two car set. The K's van still runs, I still have the DMUs here but they have nowhere to run these days.

Could well be yours - mine still exists but not in Australia. It was really out of period for the layout so the body's found a new home and will run in GWR wartime brown on new Shapeways bogies. The original K's bogies are now under my Tri-ang clerestory camping coach.

 

The DMUs might look good on Barnbow East...

Edited by St Enodoc
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Signals!

 

St Enodoc produced a plan . we all chucked our fivepenorth and..a signalling book was generated, (I still can't find tit. I had it here but I have been rearranging my workshop and layout room..

 

Any way, the signals were designed an a huge pile of Ratio signal kits acquired. They were based on what a typical ex Lancashire and Yorkshire Station would have had in the way of signals.

 

We set about them with scalpels, files and some strange form of glue...

 

64172811_LYsignalonLeedsVic.JPG.2b425b0b6f396001693e6ebf9eed9ccc.JPG

 

First up an L&Y 3 doll signal (already seen in some previously shown station shots,

 

1233460769_LYtwodollsignalLeedsVic.JPG.6d11eb04f26dee3e21d18190c5941d59.JPG

 

and a 2 doll ex L&Y signal with LMS/BR alterations

 

1272448276_latticepostonLeedsVic.JPG.b12fbdb40b9cfa79e94eb49ceb05b9ae.JPG

 

a lattice post signal

907415758_PlatofrmsignalLeedsVic.JPG.1e14ec71a9cb0a072f349b01266cd179.JPG

 a LMS signal complete with route indicator and..

 

 

1737971060_signal1fromLeedsVic.JPG.42f6f1bf6f66ae72ed09775ec1be48ec.JPG

a more complex one.. route is into Platform 5.

 

I still have these but they are very brittle now.

 

Each signal had a corresponding location marked on the baseboard, in the signal book and...

 

2128321579_signalbasesLeedsVic.JPG.e2c6ddbd15b1419268be6934ae857c29.JPG

 

on the base of the signals,

 

Note the blu tack.. at every show the signals were placed on the baseboards with this and, at the end of the show, removed, carefully wrapped and put in a large empty tin biscuits for cheese box.

 

Baz

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3 hours ago, Barry O said:

Signals!

 

St Enodoc produced a plan . we all chucked our fivepenorth and..a signalling book was generated, (I still can't find tit. I had it here but I have been rearranging my workshop and layout room..

 

Any way, the signals were designed an a huge pile of Ratio signal kits acquired. They were based on what a typical ex Lancashire and Yorkshire Station would have had in the way of signals.

 

We set about them with scalpels, files and some strange form of glue...

 

64172811_LYsignalonLeedsVic.JPG.2b425b0b6f396001693e6ebf9eed9ccc.JPG

 

First up an L&Y 3 doll signal (already seen in some previously shown station shots,

 

1233460769_LYtwodollsignalLeedsVic.JPG.6d11eb04f26dee3e21d18190c5941d59.JPG

 

and a 2 doll ex L&Y signal with LMS/BR alterations

 

1272448276_latticepostonLeedsVic.JPG.b12fbdb40b9cfa79e94eb49ceb05b9ae.JPG

 

a lattice post signal

907415758_PlatofrmsignalLeedsVic.JPG.1e14ec71a9cb0a072f349b01266cd179.JPG

 a LMS signal complete with route indicator and..

 

 

1737971060_signal1fromLeedsVic.JPG.42f6f1bf6f66ae72ed09775ec1be48ec.JPG

a more complex one.. route is into Platform 5.

 

I still have these but they are very brittle now.

 

Each signal had a corresponding location marked on the baseboard, in the signal book and...

 

2128321579_signalbasesLeedsVic.JPG.e2c6ddbd15b1419268be6934ae857c29.JPG

 

on the base of the signals,

 

Note the blu tack.. at every show the signals were placed on the baseboards with this and, at the end of the show, removed, carefully wrapped and put in a large empty tin biscuits for cheese box.

 

Baz

Memories!

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