RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 On 31/01/2021 at 23:37, Middlepeak said: A query for all you wagon lovers out there! I seem to recall a photo somewhere of a J94 pulling a string of Mermaid wagons on the High Peak, but now I can't find it. Mermaids first saw the light of day in 1960, so it would be a later period photo, with a J94 as the motive power. I have plenty of photos of Gannets being used to take stone out of the Prestwich Intake Quarry, but Mermaids are something different, and I just happen to have a kit for one in the "cupboard of shame". Any help would be much appreciated. Geraint Hi Geraint - I’ve had a look through my entire collection of photos but can’t find any shots of a Mermaid I’m afraid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Thanks Jay. I've found a couple of photos of Mermaids at Hillhead, but the High Peak pictures I've found are mainly Gannets in the mid-60's, presumably from Prestwich Intake. Thanks for looking though! G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 I've plenty of photos of Gannets present on all sections of the C&HPR. While searching for Mermaids I came across this at Middleton Top. Any idea what it is? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Looks like a slope sided 13T mineral. I've got some details of these somewhere, but Parkside do a kit. A nice piece of additional "evidence" and justification for the model I have. Thanks! G 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Middlepeak said: Looks like a slope sided 13T mineral. I've got some details of these somewhere, but Parkside do a kit. A nice piece of additional "evidence" and justification for the model I have. Thanks! G Yep it’s Parkside P27. There’s also a RTR Bachmann model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 I’ve also been looking for an LNWR D17B brake in model form. It seems like Mousa produced a resin kit for this but now discontinued. Have you ever seen another source for this Geraint. I have a fair few photos of this particular brake on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 On 21/07/2020 at 09:40, Poor Old Bruce said: Interesting photo! Is it on wheels or is that just a platform for the crane operator? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, JustinDean said: I’ve also been looking for an LNWR D17B brake in model form. It seems like Mousa produced a resin kit for this but now discontinued. Have you ever seen another source for this Geraint. I have a fair few photos of this particular brake on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section. Why not contact @billbedford of Mousa and see if it's possible he can do you one or two. If you don't ask.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 27 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said: Why not contact @billbedford of Mousa and see if it's possible he can do you one or two. If you don't ask.... Thanks Jonathon - I did message via the online contact form but didn’t hear back, but as he’s on here I’ll try directly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 36 minutes ago, JustinDean said: I’ve also been looking for an LNWR D17B brake in model form. It seems like Mousa produced a resin kit for this but now discontinued. Have you ever seen another source for this Geraint. I have a fair few photos of this particular brake on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section. The LNWR Brake vans have not been withdrawn. I have just stopped listing future production models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, billbedford said: The LNWR Brake vans have not been withdrawn. I have just stopped listing future production models. Just DM’d you so we don’t clog up Geraint’s thread! cheers Jay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, JustinDean said: I’ve also been looking for an LNWR D17B brake in model form. It seems like Mousa produced a resin kit for this but now discontinued. Have you ever seen another source for this Geraint. I have a fair few photos of this particular brake on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section. Jay, My LNW brake van was an old D&S whitemetal kit, done up as a tool van for the Middlepeak PW gang. This is the 4 wheel version. The photos I have of this type of brake van are all from the ends, so I presumed that given the restrictions on the High Peak, it would have been the 4 wheel version. I notice that London Road Models have a plan to offer a kit for the 6 wheel version, which will have a resin body and etched nickel silver underframe. I have no information to compare the two, but you may find this useful. Here's mine, which is now being used to test the Friden PW as it gets built! Regards, G 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 4, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Middlepeak said: Jay, My LNW brake van was an old D&S whitemetal kit, done up as a tool van for the Middlepeak PW gang. This is the 4 wheel version. The photos I have of this type of brake van are all from the ends, so I presumed that given the restrictions on the High Peak, it would have been the 4 wheel version. I notice that London Road Models have a plan to offer a kit for the 6 wheel version, which will have a resin body and etched nickel silver underframe. I have no information to compare the two, but you may find this useful. Here's mine, which is now being used to test the Friden PW as it gets built! Regards, G I spotted one of these on eBay a few weeks ago but it ended up selling for £70. It’s a nice little model! It seems like Bill/Mousa gathers interest in a model then produces it. The D17B I’d seen on his site hadn’t actually gone into production yet so fingers crossed it’s something that will appear in the future. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 4, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2021 Can you identify this brake van Geraint? Overall it looks LNWR but the diagonal braces go in a different direction to their designs: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted February 4, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2021 That looks more like a Furness brakevan - the LH side is not a door, just solid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 4, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2021 Agreed. Here's a blog that features a model of one. Quite a way down the page. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Definitely a Furness brake van. Either 10t or 12t very little difference between the two. Built from 1905 onwards. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Marc, Any thoughts on the longevity of these brake vans and in particular what the numbering series would have been in BR days? Geraint Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Hi Geraint, Good question. On average open/mineral wagons lasted about 40 years so I would thing that there was a distinct possibility for the late 40's early 50's. The last ones, 12T D55, of this design were built in 1917. It would all depend on if the LMS decided to get out the axe as they did with the Furness loco fleet in the 1930's. I have no idea how it ended up in Derbyshire. A more detailed photo of the 12t D54/10t D55 brake is attached. there is a drawing on the Cumbria Railways Association web site that is free to download. Its the one I used to create our 3D model for our 7mm van. https://cumbrianrailways.org.uk/wagons.php Marc 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 04/02/2021 at 08:18, JustinDean said: I spotted one of these on eBay a few weeks ago but it ended up selling for £70. It’s a nice little model! It seems like Bill/Mousa gathers interest in a model then produces it. The D17B I’d seen on his site hadn’t actually gone into production yet so fingers crossed it’s something that will appear in the future. The new LRM kit is for the LNWR B17 20T six wheel Brake Van. It looks like a stretched version of the D16 10T four wheels as built from the D&S kit (upgraded by LRM with a better underframe) and 18ft long rather than 15' 6". The LRM D16 10T BV is priced at £20, so whoever who paid £70 for the older D&S version didn't get a bargain. The D17B that Bill Bedford used to show on his website is the later type built from 1917 without outside wooden framing, had much bigger end windows and so were nicknamed Crystal Palaces. Unfortunately not everything that BB has listed has made it into production, such as the LNWR Beer Van (every LNWR layout should have at least one). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JustinDean Posted February 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said: The new LRM kit is for the LNWR B17 20T six wheel Brake Van. It looks like a stretched version of the D16 10T four wheels as built from the D&S kit (upgraded by LRM with a better underframe) and 18ft long rather than 15' 6". The LRM D16 10T BV is priced at £20, so whoever who paid £70 for the older D&S version didn't get a bargain. The D17B that Bill Bedford used to show on his website is the later type built from 1917 without outside wooden framing, had much bigger end windows and so were nicknamed Crystal Palaces. Unfortunately not everything that BB has listed has made it into production, such as the LNWR Beer Van (every LNWR layout should have at least one). Thanks for the info Jol - so far I can only find evidence for Dia 17B on the C&HPR in the form of the two photos below although I’m sure other LNWR types must have been used before the LMS 20T arrived. Edited February 6, 2021 by JustinDean Correction 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 03/02/2021 at 18:53, PenrithBeacon said: Interesting photo! Is it on wheels or is that just a platform for the crane operator? What you see is what you get I'm afraid, it was just a snatched shot from a passing wagon. I wouldn't have had the facility (or the inclination) to go back to investigate further. It does looks like it is on wheels but it doesn't look as if it would roll far at that date. I could imagine that laying half a dozen sleepers and some bits of old rail was an easier option than rebuilding the crane chassis. There is an aerial photograph of Friden station and brick works "Thought to date from the 1920's" in the Foxline book "Scenes from the past: 37 (Part One) Railways of the High Peak, Whaley Bridge to Friden" which shows a crane on the loading dock (whether it's the same crane or not could be debated) but no apparent track for it to go anywhere. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 06/02/2021 at 11:39, Poor Old Bruce said: What you see is what you get I'm afraid, it was just a snatched shot from a passing wagon. I wouldn't have had the facility (or the inclination) to go back to investigate further. It does looks like it is on wheels but it doesn't look as if it would roll far at that date. I could imagine that laying half a dozen sleepers and some bits of old rail was an easier option than rebuilding the crane chassis. There is an aerial photograph of Friden station and brick works "Thought to date from the 1920's" in the Foxline book "Scenes from the past: 37 (Part One) Railways of the High Peak, Whaley Bridge to Friden" which shows a crane on the loading dock (whether it's the same crane or not could be debated) but no apparent track for it to go anywhere. This one. It doesn't seem to be rail mounted here, must have been manually handled around the yard. Thanks for your reply. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 21 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said: This one. It doesn't seem to be rail mounted here, must have been manually handled around the yard. Thanks for your reply. That's the one. I would suggest it does seem to be similarly built on a rail chassis i.e. a platform rather than a plinth, but looks like a straight jib rather than a swan-neck as in my 1964 photo. I doubt it would move far round the yard by manual handling as it is seen on a loading bank, once it got down to rail level, there wouldn't be much incentive to get it back up again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 On 04/02/2021 at 13:51, JustinDean said: Can you identify this brake van Geraint? Overall it looks LNWR but the diagonal braces go in a different direction to their designs: I sent this photo to the Cumbrian Railways Association and now I understand that this photo is the only one known of this prototype in LMS livery. The problem is that it's resolution is much too small to be suitable for print media. Do you have an original print or can you point me in a direction so I, or the CRA, can get a copy that is suitable for print media? Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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