WWII Winter Camouflage Schemes

[maico]

Here's the new release Liliput (Bachmann Europe) DRG 52  and museum loco. 

 

An original photo of a DRG 42  in Wintertarn

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by maico

[Gordon A]

Eastern Europe?

[maico]

46 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

Eastern Europe?

 

The loco is in Technik-Museum Sinsheim, south west Germany

Edited April 30, 2020 by maico

[Iskra]

Looks cool, almost like the Allied warships dazzle paint scheme's.

 

Of course, camouflaging steam locomotives was fairly pointless as they were obvious from a very long way away in cold weather, especially from an aircraft. 

[maico]

I think that sort of disruptive pattern is difficult to see from the air as long as it is shut down. Remember many movements were done at night.

For moving heavy railguns with shells close to the front line during the day the D 311 diesel electric was the prime mover of choice, otherwise a Soviet artillery barrage was guaranteed... but only 4 units were ever built. The class 52 built to an austerity design saw 6161 units delivered 1942-1945

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by maico

[Iskra]

3 hours ago, maico said:

I think that sort of disruptive pattern is difficult to see from the air as long as it is shut down. Remember many movements were done at night.

For moving heavy railguns with shells close to the front line during the day the D 311 diesel electric was the prime mover of choice, otherwise a Soviet artillery barrage was guaranteed... but only 4 units were ever built. The class 52 built to an austerity design saw 6161 units delivered 1942-1945

 

 

 

Steam trains can still be obvious from the air at night when working. Interesting information though about the D311 though.

[maico]

Here's a DRG 05 in snow with plate protection

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by maico

[jonhall]

Whist you are never going to hide the smoke of a Kreigslok, if its only simmering, and in a yard, all you need to do is break up the silhouette so that from a typhoon travelling at 500mph it is no more likely to get shot up than anything else in the yard.

 

I was surprised how effective it was when I saw it at Sinsheim - the museum there is really worth a visit.

 

Jon

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by jonhall

[michl080]

I'd say that the folks in Sinsheim are not known  for historcal accuracy...

 

 

Michael

[Bernard Lamb]

18 hours ago, michl080 said:

I'd say that the folks in Sinsheim are not known  for historcal accuracy...

 

 

Michael

Very much a case of "fur coat and no knickers" looking at that 52.

Can any one point me in the direction of the identity of the 52s in their collection? 

I can't read the numbers on either the photos here nor on the museum web site.

I have a stock list from an earlier date and would be interested to know the source.

 

Bernard 

[EddieB]

That is the only class 52 in the museum at Sinsheim, but another is to be found at the sister site TM Speyer.  Neither came to the collection from Germany.

 

The one in camouflage livery has been given its original number of 52.3109.  Built by Jung (11120/1943) it went to Austria after the war, and as a bar-framed example was allocated to ÖBB class 152, i.e. 52.3109.  In 1968 it went to the Graz-Koflacher-Eisenbahn (GKB) retaining the same number.  I'm not sure that the 'kabine' tender is appropriate to its restoration in wartime livery.

 

At Speyer is former 52.3915 (O&K 14169/1944), taken by the Soviets and numbered TE-3915.

 

There is another kriegslok at Speyer, of class 42.  Again, this locomotive came from outside Germany, being former Plish PKP Ty43-127 (with a suggestion that it was formerly Ty3-3).  It was restored as DRG 42.1504 (Esslingen 4874/1944).

[maico]

I don't think the red running gear is right. Grey was the standard base colour once Reich territory came under aerial attack.

 

Roco DRG44

Edited May 4, 2020 by maico

[Bernard Lamb]

5 hours ago, EddieB said:

That is the only class 52 in the museum at Sinsheim, but another is to be found at the sister site TM Speyer.  Neither came to the collection from Germany.

 

The one in camouflage livery has been given its original number of 52.3109.  Built by Jung (11120/1943) it went to Austria after the war, and as a bar-framed example was allocated to ÖBB class 152, i.e. 52.3109.  In 1968 it went to the Graz-Koflacher-Eisenbahn (GKB) retaining the same number.  I'm not sure that the 'kabine' tender is appropriate to its restoration in wartime livery.

 

At Speyer is former 52.3915 (O&K 14169/1944), taken by the Soviets and numbered TE-3915.

 

There is another kriegslok at Speyer, of class 42.  Again, this locomotive came from outside Germany, being former Plish PKP Ty43-127 (with a suggestion that it was formerly Ty3-3).  It was restored as DRG 42.1504 (Esslingen 4874/1944).

Thanks Eddie. I had managed to find out that it was 3109 and the rest of your info follows on from that. I am pretty certain that the tender is a later alteration. There was one prototype with a cabin, as I understand things, from the production period, but I have no idea what became of it and have never come across a reference to it or a photograph.

The other 52 you mention appears on the web site referenced from the Sinsheim. That is why I used the plural.

 

Regarding the Liliput model of the 52. From memory this has a major error in that the cab is from their previous model of the 42. Comparison with the Gutzold 52 should show what I mean. I do like the bulk of the 42s, although I never had a chance to see any of them in service.

Bernard

[jonhall]

2 hours ago, maico said:

I don't think the red running gear is right. Grey was the standard base colour once Reich territory came under aerial attack.

 

 

 

 

 

IIRC the Sinsheim one has a chain drive, so that when you put your euro in the slot, its wheels go round for a minute or two - that may have made repainting the running gear difficult.

 

Jon

[maico]

 Diorama for Eisenart by Dirk Ade based on I think a Liliput model. Class 52 with timber boiler protection.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by maico

[Porkscratching]

At risk of criticism for bringing an older post to life again..

Having just ordered one of the 1/35 scale BR52 locos I'm interested in this whole subject.

...quite a lot of the models of this loco you see images of online are finished in camo of some kind, however there seems very little I can find of actual prototype period photos showing the locos in any kind of camouflage finish, the pics above are about the only ones I've seen tbh!

I'm wondering if anyone has any sources or links to other examples ?

Also "chapter and verse" as to colours used on German wartime locos generally.

(It's early days yet as regards what finish I'll use on my model, other than it will certainly be heavily weathered)

Edited February 14, 2021 by Porkscratching

[maico]

These Roco and Marklin models are painted in the most common scheme of grey. This a better colour to hide a silhouette than black.

The Lilliput set is quite close to trains used by top brass. There were 7 or so in service with various locomotives

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by maico

[Porkscratching]

Interesting thanks!... so the grey on the "streamliner" is a standard wartime german loco colour then, that I'd be safe to use as a base colour to start with (as opposed to plain black that one associates with German locos)..

I confess I'd be a bit wary of using camo finishes without a fair bit of genuine photo evidence !

There's a good Mark Felton video on youtube covering Goering's armoured staff train I just watched, worth a look if you've not seen it.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Porkscratching

[Porkscratching]

Out of interest, I did on my travels eventually find a couple of apparently wartime pics with camo finishes on locos, it obviously did happen but I suspect it wasn't common....

I'd assume by the looks, the one with smoke deflectors is painted just like typical late war german vehicles ...ie. yellowish tan with red-brown and green sprayed in random camo pattern over it

Edited March 14, 2021 by Porkscratching