BR BGs on the Southern

[Southernfrance]

Apologies if this has been asked before but I have no luck when searching the forum using phrases!

 

I am in the process of repainting two Bachman Farish BGs into maroon from crimson and cream and green, and wonder if anyone can tell me what running numbers such vehicles had when allocated to the Southern Region around 1960? I have searched the net without success and also my small personal library, but while I can see such vehicles were in use I can’t see the numbers. I probably don’t need to be too accurate as it’s N gauge but I like to get it right if I can....

 

As I live in France I don’t have the option of borrowing books from a library so if anyone has this info I would be very grateful!

 

Dave

[chrisf]

As it happens, I have my abc of BR Coaches, correct to1st January 1962, at my elbow.  It lists no BGs allocated to the Southern Region.  It may be that some were transferred in subsequently.  This does not stop you having maroon BGs but they should have M, E or W prefixes.

 

Chris

[cctransuk]

6 minutes ago, chrisf said:

As it happens, I have my abc of BR Coaches, correct to1st January 1962, at my elbow.  It lists no BGs allocated to the Southern Region.  It may be that some were transferred in subsequently.  This does not stop you having maroon BGs but they should have M, E or W prefixes.

 

Chris

 

I've a feeling that one or two may have been transferred for use with either boat trains or Pullman trains - I can't recall the details, though.

 

John Isherwood.

 

PS. My reprint of the 1958 abc of BR Coaches doesn't list any allocated to BR(SR) either.

Edited May 1, 2020 by cctransuk

[chrisf]

I'm sure John is right.  At least one worked in the Bournemouth Belle towards the end, pilfered from the WR and retaining chocolate and cream livery.

 

Parcels vans are essentially nomadic vehicles.  Where they work has little relation to their regional allocation.  Think of how well travelled the Southern CCTs and PMVs and WR Siphons G were.

 

Chris

[jim.snowdon]

40 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I've a feeling that one or two may have been transferred for use with either boat trains or Pullman trains - I can't recall the details, though.

 

John Isherwood.

 

PS. My reprint of the 1958 abc of BR Coaches doesn't list any allocated to BR(SR) either.

I have a recollection that in addition to the 10 Motor Luggage Vans that were built for the Southern Region there were also a number of BGs equipped with through MU connections and air brakes to work with them on the Dover boat train services, sandwiched between the MLV and the train.

 

Jim

[Martin Shaw]

Jim is quite correct. In 1968 six BGs 80915/18/22/25/42/51 were converted to class 499 numbered  68201-6. By 1975 they were stored before further departmental use. Initially they were maroon and then blue/grey. I can remember the Golden Arrow in the days of class 71 haulage and that certainly had a luggage van of some sort in it as well as Pullmans and green Mk1s.

Regards

Martin

[lapford34102]

Hi,

For the period you're interested in, 1960, there weren't any green BG's  IIRC, they didn't need any as they had enough of their home grown parcels stock. As Chris pointed out you could have maroon BG's from other regions as they were far from uncommon on the Southern in parcels rakes plus the odd one tacked on passenger services.

Stu

[Joseph_Pestell]

9 minutes ago, Martin Shaw said:

Jim is quite correct. In 1968 six BGs 80915/18/22/25/42/51 were converted to class 499 numbered  68201-6. By 1975 they were stored before further departmental use. Initially they were maroon and then blue/grey. I can remember the Golden Arrow in the days of class 71 haulage and that certainly had a luggage van of some sort in it as well as Pullmans and green Mk1s.

Regards

Martin

It would have needed a van for all the luggage that cleared customs at Victoria.

[RFS]

I have two of these from Bachmann in green livery so now I'm not sure if they're authentic. One is numbered S 80893 and the other S 80561. Does anyone have any information as to whether these are correct?

 

The Bournemouth Belle did borrow a BG from the Western Region for a time, as being in chocolate and cream it matched the Pullman cars. 

[RFS]

There's also been an earlier topic on this subject -

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Seaton Bank/Honiton Incline.

P

[HGT1972]

A batch of these moved to the SR 11/65 and were repainted green but not long after they started appearing in blue and grey so the green livery was quite short lived.

 

I have S80561 and S80893 both moving as part of that batch and both being repainted although the latter was noted in blue and grey by 8/66. The others I know of (there may be more) were: S80594/695/875/916/26/33/45/9, S81039/50/153/273/89/92/345/510/42. S80933 was also noted with an incorrect S suffix.

 

The two WR BGs pinched for the Pullman service were W80713/4 in chocolate and cream livery.

 

It seems none were green in 1960 unfortunately.

 

Hywel

[brushman47544]

Just come across an article By Mike King in The Southern Way No.14, which lists the BR(S) Green BGs as:

S80561/594/695/875/893/926/933/945/949

S81039/050/153/273/289/292/345/510/542 

 

They’re listed in the context of a photo dated May 1958, the caption of which refers to the BGs not appearing in green for another seven years, so 1965.

Edited May 3, 2020 by brushman47544

[Mallard60022]

Has anyone mentioned the Surbiton to Okehampton & return Car Train that ran in the Summer (1960 to 64? Can't remember without checking), mainly on the peak Saturdays late July and all of August, but with a Q slot available for a Friday and Sunday. 8 dedicated GUVs Green livery and 3 coaches. I read that an occasional single GUV was attached to an ordinary train if there was a call. I believe Surbiton was used as it had a car loading dock for those little, blue, three wheeler Invacars that were loaded there?  Booked for a MN but quite often a Light Pacific.

P

[Southernfrance]

Thanks to all who took the trouble to reply. I forgot to add that I’m modelling the Eastern section only though. There seems to be a lot more known about those BGs transferred in mid to late 60s than those there around the turn of the decade. The photos I can find in my collection are dated April 1958, May 1959 and September 1960, and all are on the down Golden Arrow, so maybe there was only one, allocated to this service. Frustratingly, one photo shows the front of the BG fairly well but when examined under a magnifying lens it just blurs. It looks to be a fairly short number though.

 

Given this is N Gauge I’ll probably invoke Rule 1 and number them to whatever numbers I have on the decal set. I would defy anyone viewing them to tell me they are wrong! They will spend more time initially working on James Street, which is set in the Midlands, so an E or M prefix will probably be best.

[Simon Lee]

On 01/05/2020 at 16:17, Joseph_Pestell said:

It would have needed a van for all the luggage that cleared customs at Victoria.

 

The Arrow van would have been a GUV or 4 wheel CCT/PMV (S)  or similar as once cleared Customs the van would be sealed and no access allowed until opened at Dover in the prescence of a member of HMCE 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, Simon Lee said:

 

The Arrow van would have been a GUV or 4 wheel CCT/PMV (S)  or similar as once cleared Customs the van would be sealed and no access allowed until opened at Dover in the prescence of a member of HMCE 

 

I don't think that it was unsealed until it got to Victoria.

[Simon Lee]

5 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I don't think that it was unsealed until it got to Victoria.

The outbound was sealed at Vic and undone at DWD and the inbound vice versa

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, Simon Lee said:

The outbound was sealed at Vic and undone at DWD and the inbound vice versa

 

I can't remember which year it was that we used this service (mid/late 60s). I do remember how cold and uncomfortable it was waiting for HMCE to do their thing on a platform with no covered facilities (or very minimal).

[Simon Lee]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I can't remember which year it was that we used this service (mid/late 60s). I do remember how cold and uncomfortable it was waiting for HMCE to do their thing on a platform with no covered facilities (or very minimal).

Sounds like the quayside at Dover Marine, once the train arrived in the main station, the under bond vans were shunted onto the quayside roads, which incidently were referred to as platforms 1 and 2, hence the platforms under the train shed commencing at platform 3. There was, as you mention minimal cover, though in later years there was very little inside due to the state of the roof.

[Joseph_Pestell]

We were inbound, so at Victoria (platform 8). There would have been a platform canopy but that is not much protection while standing around on a windy day. When I have more time, I will take a look through Dad's photo albums and see if he took any on that occasion. 

[Combe Martin]

On ‎01‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 15:45, RFS said:

There's also been an earlier topic on this subject -

 

 

 

I've just read through the previous topic on the Southerns green BGs as detailed above, and I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the quantities because I don't know, but a few years back when I was at a major model railway exhibition, the gentleman that runs Replica Railways (who I believe produced a correct length BG before anyone else) told me that his contact within Eastleigh works told him that Eastleigh had only painted 6 BGs in green.