Relative merits of different track component brands

[hayfield]

Thanks for uploading the items, Please how does the fret for constructing the common crossings work?

 

The Mint gauges are very useful

[brossard]

I had a set (I might still do, must check).  The crossing jig (from EMGS) I had looks like this:

 

 

Not sure I recall enough about it to describe how it works.

 

Those prices are pretty eyewatering.  Everything you need to do to make a turnout can be done using odds and ends that you have lying about.  Vees can be made by tacking copperclad strip at the appropriate angle to a piece of ply.  Blades can be filed easily enough without a jig.  A dead edge file helps.  I make crossings by taping the section of the template to a piece of ply.  Copper clad is glued between timbers and V and wingrails soldered to the strip.

 

If you make lots of turnouts then the jigs will be handy.  Most of us only need to make a handful of turnouts.

 

John

[LBRJ]

If you are a member of the Society though, the purchase of any jigs does help their finances.

Such things are also very useful.

I was taught to file correctly by my Dad (who was a 7 year apprenticeship served surgical instrument maker, and could sharpen a blade on the side of a brick!)

Although I must be very out of practice, I can still file, but I would still use a jig

[hayfield]

John

 

If you have a number of turnouts to build, these jigs are invaluable and pay for themselves very quickly. These jigs are made from hardened steel and are very long lasting. Look up the prices for gauges now, nothing is cheap

 

The vee filing jigs are simplicity in themselves, produce highly accurate crisp crossing angles extremely quickly. They also can be used to hold the rails in position whilst soldering them together

 

The switch rail jigs are a simple way of holding the rails whilst filing them to shape, especially on the inside of the switch rails where the foot of the rails need protecting.

 

Very few people have the metalworking skills to file rails freehand, quickly and as accurately 

 

I accept some may bulk at the cost, but even if you are only ever going to build one layout these jigs have a very high demand (as do well made gauges) on the second hand market so most of your expense in buying them could be easily recouped by selling them on once you have finished with them

[down the sdjr]

13 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

Latest EMGS / Scalefour prices (+ membership and worth every penny of it).

I am going to order those, they look really nice.  I will only buy the 1:5-1:8 v jig as i dont suppose i would need bigger for a station like Blandford Forum.

If it all goes wrong i can always buy the Vs from C&L.

[Tim Dubya]

11 minutes ago, down the sdjr said:

If it all goes wrong i can always buy the Vs from C&L.

 

Personally, I find making v's the easy part.  Construction of the complete common crossing (even with the jig) is where I have a few difficulties but I always get there in the end.

It's just practice and muscle memory. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Tim Dubya
Tony Benn

[Godders]

You can also buy the vees from the EMGS but I'm not sure if it's a full crossing like the C&L ones

[Tim Dubya]

2 minutes ago, Godders said:

You can also buy the vees from the EMGS but I'm not sure if it's a full crossing like the C&L ones

 

Don't think the stores sell the complete crossing, like C&L do.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Tim Dubya
walnut bread

[Tim Dubya]

14 hours ago, hayfield said:

Thanks for uploading the items, Please how does the fret for constructing the common crossings work?

 

The Mint gauges are very useful

 

Best described in pictures, I'll try and find some out.

 

The secret to success is in here, but it's for members eyes only (I don't want to get a debagging like I had the last time I let something slip.  As for Scalefour, I don't even want to find out what they'll do to me, I'm still waiting for one of them to notice that I snuck into the Members Lounge overnight a couple of weeks ago and installed Cheddar Valley in the bar)

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Tim Dubya
Tom & Barbara

[Crosland]

The 2mm Scale Association Track book shows how to make some very simple filing jigs that could be adapted to other scales.

[brossard]

After my last post, I checked for the jigs from EMGS.  I don't have them.  I did a wholesale selloff of 00/4mm stuff over the last while.

 

Building in 7mm now but these are what I use (and I got the method from a 4mm article in MRJ):

 

 

Very simple setup.  Vee jig is two strips of copperclad.  The Vee rails are below.

 

That's a Peco crossing template.

 

 

Vee and wing rails soldered to copper clad strip (C&L use brass strip for theirs).  Note the strip is between timbers.  In 4mm, copper clad strip makes a good straightedge and is about the right thickness for the flangeway.

 

Oh BTW, I just found a pic of my attempt to replicate the EMGS crossing jig for 7mm:

 

 

This might provide some clues as to how the EMGS jig works.

 

John

Edited June 26, 2020 by brossard

[polybear]

Chances are you'll always get most, if not all your money back on the gauges if you sold them on ebay when/if no longer required

[hayfield]

If they are well advertised and especially uncommon/not readily available items like these I agree

 

But there is always an exception, through the post today

 

one pair of C&L 00 roller gauges, one pair of 00SF roller gauges, one pair of 00SF check rail gauges, one 00SF 3 point gauge and one Markits 00 back to back gauge. New probably the best part of £70. I got them for £17.57 inc postage. Absolutely gobsmacked at the lack of competition  though there were 3 differing lots and some of the photos got mixed up. The 3 point gauge is as common as rocking horse dung.  I bet there was a wing rail gauge in the box, which I guess was thrown out as scrap

[Andy Reichert]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

If they are well advertised and especially uncommon/not readily available items like these I agree

 

But there is always an exception, through the post today

 

one pair of C&L 00 roller gauges, one pair of 00SF roller gauges, one pair of 00SF check rail gauges, one 00SF 3 point gauge and one Markits 00 back to back gauge. New probably the best part of £70. I got them for £17.57 inc postage. Absolutely gobsmacked at the lack of competition  though there were 3 differing lots and some of the photos got mixed up. The 3 point gauge is as common as rocking horse dung.  I bet there was a wing rail gauge in the box, which I guess was thrown out as scrap

 

If you are thinking about using RTR wheels on 6 coupled or more steam locos, Just about any CAD SW program will throw up at least a couple of excellent reasons.

 

Andy

[hayfield]

Given the success of many layouts on here, two large ones in particular where they constantly use large Pacific RTR locos (and in one case the occasional appearance of larger American H0 locos, your theories have been debunked time and time again. By all means continue to use and promote the standards you prefer. But please recognize most often than not, there is more than one solution to a problem.

 

In addition to this there is a growing demand this side of the pond for better looking and performing trackwork without going to the trouble of changing gauge or back to back measurements. In the past when commercial track gauges of any standard gauge are offered for sale on our nations favorite model railway site, and are clearly described and listed demand is always high. On these pages there have been many requests as to where these can be obtained, in fact I think the 3 point gauges are now unavailable.

 

 

[hayfield]

On 25/06/2020 at 22:35, brossard said:

I had a set (I might still do, must check).  The crossing jig (from EMGS) I had looks like this:

 

 

Not sure I recall enough about it to describe how it works.

 

Those prices are pretty eyewatering.  Everything you need to do to make a turnout can be done using odds and ends that you have lying about.  Vees can be made by tacking copperclad strip at the appropriate angle to a piece of ply.  Blades can be filed easily enough without a jig.  A dead edge file helps.  I make crossings by taping the section of the template to a piece of ply.  Copper clad is glued between timbers and V and wingrails soldered to the strip.

 

If you make lots of turnouts then the jigs will be handy.  Most of us only need to make a handful of turnouts.

 

John

 

 

John

 

A simple filing jig looks expensive if you only use it once, however most people wanting to build their own track will make a few turnouts and crossings.

 

Looking at how much C&L charge for either a Vee or common crossing (£14.50 or £21.50 respectively) they soon pay for them selves. I am not complaining about C&L charges as any small runs of engineering products cost a fortune.

 

Given considering a Vee contains about 10cm of rail and 10 m of rail costs £14.50, the cost of making your own Vee is under 20p and a common crossing under 40p. Your investment in quickly and accurately making a Vee is soon returned, especially when the resale value is recouped 

 

Common crossings do cause some problems, I assembled my EM Gauge Soc common crossing jig over the weekend and its use is extremely easy and saves burning your fingers. 

 

A simple case of preforming the rails and letting hair grips hold them in position

 

 

You do not even need the Vee filing jig to make use of the common crossing jig, but its far quicker and more accurate to do so.

 

 

[brossard]

Good looking jig there.  I was trying to make the point (oh dear) that you don't have to spend a lot of money on jigs to make turnouts.  Bought in jigs are very nice to have but I have learned that they are not essential.

 

John

[hayfield]

John

 

Point well made, but the etch jig is very cheap, but I guess can easily be made from a bit of large scrap fret,

 

 

The filing jigs especially if you are making a few are so quick to use and accurate, plus have a good resale value, sometimes its false economy not to have one

 

As well as filing the correct angle they hold the rail in position to solder

 

 

Then make the wing rail, slightly overbend the angle place in the jig and slightly tap the bend to shape. 3 jobs in one !!!

[brossard]

You don't have to convince me John, I'm not questioning their usefulness.  I did buy a set of EMGS jigs and sold them on.

 

I have been building 7mm turnouts without special jigs and they all came out OK....well, eventually after a number of false starts and errors.

 

John

[Colin_McLeod]

Slightly OT but related. Is there a ready supply of check rail chairs? 

I am seeking to build approximately four feet of bridge rail with continuous check rail without paying the premium prices on E bay for the now discontinued Walthers bridge rail.

 

[brossard]

I make check rail chairs by cutting back running chairs so they be installed at the right gauge.  That is in 0 gauge though.

 

John

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Slightly OT but related. Is there a ready supply of check rail chairs? 

I am seeking to build approximately four feet of bridge rail with continuous check rail without paying the premium prices on E bay for the now discontinued Walthers bridge rail.

 

 

For what gauge ?

 

P4 yes Exactoscale sell either 0.68 or 0.8 mm flangeways

 

Certainly for EM gauge by cutting the 0.8 mm chairs in half and threading alternate chairs on the stock and check rails, when butting up more or less form 1 mm gaps (do use a check rail gauge when fitting) and for 00 with 1.25 check rail gaps its not very noticeable. Chopping up standard chairs is an option but not as convincing. Cost is much the same 8p for 2 standard chairs 8.5p per check chair

 

If you are not a society member (EM or Scalefour) befriend one

 

Phil at C&L is looking into 00 gauge check chairs, but its like everything else the costs of design and manufacture of the tooling that is very painful and it may not be financially feasible

 

3D printing could be the answer

[Colin_McLeod]

Thank you both for the replies. Some good options there.

Its 00 I work in.

[roythebus]

Beware when using copper clad for jigs, it can be very easy to solder the rails to the jig!

[hayfield]

I have been building a three way turnout this weekend and was able to use and get more familiar with the common crossing jig, and its getting so much better in use especially as I had 2 awkward angles (1-5.34 & 1-3.92)

 

 

The first thing I realized was that I had a bit of glue creep up from the joint, I ran a file along both joints and a slight Issue I had went away

I use brass 0.5mm thick strip across the rails and the pine is getting a bit burnt. So I bought a couple more jigs (they are only £2.50) I think I will need to use some aluminum strip from the DIY store. The 2 strips need to be 6 mm thick by 25 mm wide. Plan B is to glue 1 ali strip to a backing board, place the jig up to it then glue the second strip to the backing board (no glue to creep up the jig and cause an issue

 

The second issue is that I cannot after fitting the first wing rail, I take the subassembly out of the jig, rotate it (as per the instructions) and try to refit it back into the jig. Looking at the instructions they show the copper clad/brass strips at an angle, I have been fitting them at 90 degrees and it will not work  ( the angle required looks to be about a 30 degree angle )

 

Whilst we are on jigs firstly I ordered some new files, I now use Vallorbe files ( they cost very little more but they are well worth the extra, I ordered a 2nd and smooth cuts in 150 mm  length and a smooth 250mm (for filing the switch rail backs) I keep my new files for rail and hard metal, the old ones are relegated to whitemetal and copperclad

 

I tried to file the heads off first as per the instructions but I get a better result when I put the jig into a vice and use a 10" file across both rails and file off the backs. I turn the rails round so the blanking piece is over both feet. Holding the jig on the bench I use the 6" files to file off the heads. If you have sharp files (safe side against the blanking piece) and only use the file going forward it soon cuts the heads off. It seems to take aged if you use a file going back and forth, the first method also gives you so much more control

 

The moral of the story is, Use good quality sharp files the way they were designed to be used, when they loose their edge change them and don't use your best files on whitemetal or glass fiber copperclad