BR Road vehicle identification help!

[Brinkly]

Hello!

 

I'm after a little bit of advice with regard to a couple of British Railway's road vehicles.

 

Both photographs were taken at the former GWR station at Launceston. 

 

I believe this photograph is showing the rear end of a Fordson (or Thames) E38W small van. I know Classix produce a model of this vehicle, but it appears to have a different body fittings on the side. 

 

December 1962 - Photographer unknown.

 

The other photo was again taken at Launceston, but this time in 1964. 

 

Is this a Ford Thames ET6 panel van? I'm rather hoping it is because I have a Road Transport Images kit to of one!

Launceston October 1964 - Sid Sponheimer

 

Lastly, if anyone can identify the two cars and bus in the above photograph. My knowledge of buses in this period is almost no existent! 

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[ELTEL]

The car at the rear of the photograph could be a MK1 Ford Consul.

 

Terry 

[giz]

The bus is a Bristol L type that was originally half cab but re-bodied as full front by ECW.

 

The registration looks like JUO938 which makes it new in 1948 to Western National as an L6B with a Beadle C31F coach body. It was re-bodied in 1958 with the FB39F bus body seen here. It was lengthened to 30ft during the process.

 

http://www.bristolsu.co.uk/l/operatordetails/westernnational/juo938.htm

 

Similar Southern National JUO983 can be seen here:

 

http://www.sct61.org.uk/sn1218

[96701]

25 minutes ago, giz said:

The bus is a Bristol L type that was originally half cab but re-bodied as full front by ECW.

 

The registration looks like JUO938 which makes it new in 1948 to Western National as an L6B with a Beadle C31F coach body. It was re-bodied in 1958 with the FB39F bus body seen here. It was lengthened to 30ft during the process.

 

http://www.bristolsu.co.uk/l/operatordetails/westernnational/juo938.htm

 

Similar Southern National JUO983 can be seen here:

 

http://www.sct61.org.uk/sn1218

That is some knowledge!

[stewartingram]

That car at the back looks like an Austin Cambridge (pre-Farina) mk1 to me. Matchbox used to produce one in a scale close to 4mm/ft.

 

Stewart

[ELTEL]

A bit more information on the bus.

 

Yes, it is a Western National Bristol SUL with Eastern Coach Works body.

The one on the picture is registration number JUO 938.

 

 

 

[ELTEL]

My money still on a Ford Consul MK1

 

Terry 

[petethemole]

The nearer car looks like a Standard, circa 1937, one of the larger models.

[Brinkly]

1 hour ago, giz said:

The bus is a Bristol L type that was originally half cab but re-bodied as full front by ECW.

 

The registration looks like JUO938 which makes it new in 1948 to Western National as an L6B with a Beadle C31F coach body. It was re-bodied in 1958 with the FB39F bus body seen here. It was lengthened to 30ft during the process.

 

http://www.bristolsu.co.uk/l/operatordetails/westernnational/juo938.htm

 

Similar Southern National JUO983 can be seen here:

 

http://www.sct61.org.uk/sn1218

 

That is brilliant; thank you @giz

 

50 minutes ago, 96701 said:

That is some knowledge!

Absolutely! That bus will definitely feature on the layout.

[giz]

24 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

A bit more information on the bus.

 

Yes, it is a Western National Bristol SUL with Eastern Coach Works body.

The one on the picture is registration number JUO 938.

 

 

 

It was an L, not SUL. The SUL was a small 'midi' bus with set back front axle and entrance alongside the driver.

 

This is an SUL:

 

http://www.sct61.org.uk/wn624

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by giz
Link to photo of SUL added

[Brinkly]

40 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

That car at the back looks like an Austin Cambridge (pre-Farina) mk1 to me. Matchbox used to produce one in a scale close to 4mm/ft.

 

Stewart

I wondered if if that a MK1 Cambridge to start with; however...

 

 

16 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

My money still on a Ford Consul MK1

 

Terry 

...  dad thought it was Consul. 

 

Either way, both 'period' and I can have one of each and swap them other.

 

Thank you gents. 

[Brinkly]

10 minutes ago, petethemole said:

The nearer car looks like a Standard, circa 1937, one of the larger models.

 

Thank you, Pete. That is very helpful.

[Brinkly]

Have I identified the small van and lorry correctly? 

[ELTEL]

2 minutes ago, giz said:

It was an L, not SUL. The SUL was a small 'midi' bus with set back front axle and entrance alongside the driver.

I shall pass on your information to my fellow railway club member who’s information I passed on.

 

Seems it sorted now

[LMS2968]

The van is definitely a Ford E83W 10cwt van. They were also sold as a chassis / cab and I think this started life like that. I have a friend who's very knowledgeable on the model. I'll e-mail to see if it's from a recognised coachbuilder.

[Wickham Green too]

Don't forget the railway(s) often bought road vehicles as chassis / cab and built the bodies themselves - so the 'recognised coachbuilder' might turn out to be Swindon Works !

[steve1]

My money's still on the Austin Cambridge.

 

steve

[BernardTPM]

I'd agree it's the mid-'50s Cambridge as the light is catching the raised strake under the doors. There's no similiar moulding on the Ford. The Ford also has a straight crease line at waist level which the car in the photo doesn't have.

[Brinkly]

1 hour ago, LMS2968 said:

The van is definitely a Ford E83W 10cwt van. They were also sold as a chassis / cab and I think this started life like that. I have a friend who's very knowledgeable on the model. I'll e-mail to see if it's from a recognised coachbuilder.

 

Thank you, @LMS2968. That would be really helpful. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[Merfyn Jones]

5 hours ago, Brinkly said:

Hello!

 

I'm after a little bit of advice with regard to a couple of British Railway's road vehicles.

 

Both photographs were taken at the former GWR station at Launceston. 

 

I believe this photograph is showing the rear end of a Fordson (or Thames) E38W small van. I know Classix produce a model of this vehicle, but it appears to have a different body fittings on the side. 

 

December 1962 - Photographer unknown.

 

The other photo was again taken at Launceston, but this time in 1964. 

 

Is this a Ford Thames ET6 panel van? I'm rather hoping it is because I have a Road Transport Images kit to of one!

Launceston October 1964 - Sid Sponheimer

 

Lastly, if anyone can identify the two cars and bus in the above photograph. My knowledge of buses in this period is almost no existent! 

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

 

The Ford E83W vans that B R had were mainly the factory built van bodies.  The coachbuilt bodies were very rare, this being the only one I have ever seen a picture of, however there is one preserved which was ex LMR but now has a new registration.

Yes the Fordson ET6 van can be done from the RTI kit, which is based on a Southern Region one.

The other car nobody mentioned is a Rover.

 

[LMS2968]

14 hours ago, Brinkly said:

 

Thank you, @LMS2968. That would be really helpful. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

Got the following reply. No real surprise that the van no longer exists.

 

"I've had a pore over the Registers and no, no trace, and not with Swansea either. OGT 606 is, as you probably have looked up is a 1954 London mark, and I would guess that this van is long since scrapped. The photograph reminds me of the Bluebell Railway which has one such van 884 FUF, (since 1998 but ex OAR 223 (Hertfordshire) of 1952 vintage). I have to quote from what information we have on this vehicle to shed any further light on what OGT would have experienced.

It would seem that the railways used a number of this van type throughout the system 884 FUF being indeed one of them supplied as a chassis/cab to British Railways who fitted a wooden coachbuilt body in their own workshops. Apparently it was used as a parcels delivery van working from Euston. It is our only registered example. I would strongly suspect that OGT 606 has a very similar history. Was there any general information with the photo? Name of station? It's a pity if it hasn't survived.

This of any use?"

[Broadway Clive]

OGT606 - new 1953, BR number 225S, Fordson E83W Box van originally based at Launceston.

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Broadway Clive

[MidlandRed]

18 hours ago, ELTEL said:

My money still on a Ford Consul MK1

 

Terry 

 

As Bernardtpm has said, the mk1 Cambridge has the flare above the sills whereas the Consul has a tumble home shape into the sills (like Rootes cars of the era) and the car in the photo is clearly a mk1 Cambridge - the sill can be seen clearly - but id never realised the mk1 Cambridge and Consul were so similar until seeing these photos! 

 

The bus is interesting - the new ECW body on the Bristol L is the same style as the dual purpose/coach version of the Bristol SC4LK, a cheap and cheerful lightweight bus for rural areas (as a parallel, Midland Red developed their S14 for similar reasons - weighed just over 4 tons with at least 40 seats - built 219 and from 1956, some were built for one person operation). Here's a Bristol 4CLK

 

http://www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=6729

 

Now if you're slightly into buses, the site on the link below comes with a health warning on a similar scale to BR Database as hours of life can be expended!!! (Type JUO 938 in the search and you'll find two records, one for the version in the photo). This Bristol L was rebodied with the SC4LK DP style body in 1958 - the SC4LK also had a traditional front engine (like the L), so presumably rebodying to this style, when the L coach was probably dated but the chassis capable of a few more years of service, created a vehicle which may be capable of one person operation (then called one man operation) for lightly trafficked rural routes. Midland Red put their first omo S14 into service in Hereford in 1956, some of whose routes were very rural indeed. So this was the era such economies were becoming popular in rural areas. 

 

The SUL4A was a later underfloor engined lightweight bus, mostly of normal size, from the early 60s generally with entrance in front of set back front wheel of which Southern and Western National had plenty - Devon General's midi bus (a 90s description of an early 60s concept in this case) version was the Albion Nimbus. 

 

http://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by MidlandRed
Correction and additional info

[Brinkly]

1 hour ago, LMS2968 said:

Got the following reply. No real surprise that the van no longer exists.

 

"I've had a pore over the Registers and no, no trace, and not with Swansea either. OGT 606 is, as you probably have looked up is a 1954 London mark, and I would guess that this van is long since scrapped. The photograph reminds me of the Bluebell Railway which has one such van 884 FUF, (since 1998 but ex OAR 223 (Hertfordshire) of 1952 vintage). I have to quote from what information we have on this vehicle to shed any further light on what OGT would have experienced.

It would seem that the railways used a number of this van type throughout the system 884 FUF being indeed one of them supplied as a chassis/cab to British Railways who fitted a wooden coachbuilt body in their own workshops. Apparently it was used as a parcels delivery van working from Euston. It is our only registered example. I would strongly suspect that OGT 606 has a very similar history. Was there any general information with the photo? Name of station? It's a pity if it hasn't survived.

This of any use?"

 

Thank you, that is really helpful. I got a couple of photos of the preserved van and will build/modify something to match. 

 

Best wishes,

Nick

[Brinkly]

1 hour ago, Broadway Clive said:

OGT606 - new 1953, BR number 225S, Fordson E83W Box van originally based at Launceston.

 

 

Thank you, Clive. That is very helpful. I know there were other vehicles based at Tavistock, but, as yet, don't have any solid information about what type or make they were. 

 

Until I find something else, these vans will feature on my layout! 

 

Best wishes,

 

Nick.