North Eastern Railway H class

[NeilHB]

Hi Folks,

 

I’m after some assistance please.

 

Last year I inherited my friends 7mm scale standard gauge collection, and have been working my way through it since then sorting it all out.

 

One of the items in there is a part-built Connoisseur kit for a North Eastern Railway H class, aka LNER Y7 0-4-0T.

 

He’d intended to turn it into the loco portion of a railcar for our Duddon Bridge layout, now sadly closed. 
 

I’ve been mulling things over for a few months about what to do with the loco, and have now decided to finish it off in NER livery and have it running as a borrowed locomotive on my tramway (think a Sudrian version of Wantage with elements from Wisbech/West Sussex/Brill Tramway etc.).
 

In my head I’ve decided that the loco was borrowed for a few years from around 1919 onwards, when the tramway had a bit of a motive power crisis and needed something small and lightweight. 
 

This is the loco as it stands currently:

 

 

Theres a bit of work needed to finish it off, mainly replacing the rear cab flare (Tim had removed it otherwise it would have fouled the carriage portion of the rail motor), and then sorting out the detailing. 
 

However, I will be the first to admit that my knowledge of North Eastern Railway locos is somewhat non-existent, and I need some assistance please with a few details:

 

1) Brakes - I’ve read that as built the H weren’t fitted with vacuum/air brakes? When were these fitted from? 
 

2) Livery - I’d like to paint it in the earlier Saxony green livery (1310 at Middleton looks lovely!), but I’m guessing that’s probably too early for my time period? 
 

3a) Safety valves - personal choice is to fit the Ramsbottom safety valves (they look nicer), but the kit also provides options for the Ross Pop valves. Was there a point in time when they changed from one to the other? 
 

3b) If I can use the Ramsbottom safety valves, does anyone know of a replacement brass casting that is suitable for use on this type of loco please? The one in the kit is whitemetal, and it would be nice to have a proper brass one if there is one available.

 

4) Are there any good reference materials available on the class please? I’ve looked at LNER.info, but that is mainly concerned with the class in LNER days and doesn’t have any pre-groupings photos. 

 

Thanks all in advance  

[MarcD]

Hi Neil, 

These locos were only fitted for use on the North Sunderland by BR(circ1948-53).

Pre 1907 green livery post 1907 unlined black apart from one that was painted blue and black.

Ken Hooke's ner loco book is possible the best one but HMRS North Eastern record vol 3 isn't bad. 

I building one in S7 at the moment. These are the books I'm using.

Marc

[Edwardian]

59 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

Hi Folks,

 

I’m after some assistance please.

 

Last year I inherited my friends 7mm scale standard gauge collection, and have been working my way through it since then sorting it all out.

 

One of the items in there is a part-built Connoisseur kit for a North Eastern Railway H class, aka LNER Y7 0-4-0T.

 

He’d intended to turn it into the loco portion of a railcar for our Duddon Bridge layout, now sadly closed. 
 

I’ve been mulling things over for a few months about what to do with the loco, and have now decided to finish it off in NER livery and have it running as a borrowed locomotive on my tramway (think a Sudrian version of Wantage with elements from Wisbech/West Sussex/Brill Tramway etc.).
 

In my head I’ve decided that the loco was borrowed for a few years from around 1919 onwards, when the tramway had a bit of a motive power crisis and needed something small and lightweight. 
 

This is the loco as it stands currently:

 

 

Theres a bit of work needed to finish it off, mainly replacing the rear cab flare (Tim had removed it otherwise it would have fouled the carriage portion of the rail motor), and then sorting out the detailing. 
 

However, I will be the first to admit that my knowledge of North Eastern Railway locos is somewhat non-existent, and I need some assistance please with a few details:

 

1) Brakes - I’ve read that as built the H weren’t fitted with vacuum/air brakes? When were these fitted from? 
 

2) Livery - I’d like to paint it in the earlier Saxony green livery (1310 at Middleton looks lovely!), but I’m guessing that’s probably too early for my time period? 
 

3a) Safety valves - personal choice is to fit the Ramsbottom safety valves (they look nicer), but the kit also provides options for the Ross Pop valves. Was there a point in time when they changed from one to the other? 
 

3b) If I can use the Ramsbottom safety valves, does anyone know of a replacement brass casting that is suitable for use on this type of loco please? The one in the kit is whitemetal, and it would be nice to have a proper brass one if there is one available.

 

4) Are there any good reference materials available on the class please? I’ve looked at LNER.info, but that is mainly concerned with the class in LNER days and doesn’t have any pre-groupings photos. 

 

Thanks all in advance  

 

 

The instruction was to paint all goods and mineral locomotives black from June 1904. Lining was discretionary.

 

In NER days, all had the Ramsbottom valves with the brass covers.  The covers remained brass with the black livery.  Ross Pop valves were fitted on the examples built in 1923; only two of the originals ever received Ross Pops, but not until the 1940s.

 

Cannot help you with a suggested 7mm component. If you had CAD for one, Shapeways prints in brass.

 

 

For black livery and brake and sanding detail, see picture above.  Your model seems to have them correctly and the correct wheel and handle smoke box door fastenings. Note front guard iron is missing on side nearest camera.

 

Make sure you fit separate, not continuous, handrail on the smoke box face.  Continuous rails were only fitted to the LNER batch. 

 

None of the NER engines was ever fitted with anything other than a hand brake.  The five built by the LNER additionally had a steam brake.  Only 986, one of the LNER -built locos, received a vacuum ejector and screw-link couplings.  This was in 1945, as Furness Wagon mentions, to work the North Sunderland.  EDIT: You'll need to fill those holes on the upper boiler.  These I suspect are peculiar to the vac-fitted 986, perhaps the vac ejector pipe.

 

Now, if you eschew black, I can give you a choice of 3 rather nice liveries:

 

1. As built, T W Worsdell's Saxony green with claret border.  This would have included the 1891 batch, because W Worsdell's simplified livery was not generally applied until December 1892.

 

2. W Worsdell's Saxony green lined white and black, as seen below.

 

 

3. In 1903 two of the class, a works shunter at Gateshead and one at Darlington, were painted blue with black borders, lined vermilion.  Seen below. 

 

 

These are the only pre-Grouping pictures in the books mentioned below:

 

As Furness Wagon mentions, there is Ken Hoole's An Illustrated History of NER Locomotives, and HMRS/NERA's North Eastern Record Vol.3.  Neither has very much text devoted to the H.  Further detail is found in RCTS Locomotives of the LNER 9B, but only Grouping era pictures.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Edwardian

[Paul Cram]

Yeadon volume 32 has photos and text

[NeilHB]

Thanks very much to Marc, James and Paul for your help. 
 

Glad that the model appears to be correct for details of that time period. I will be filling in the upper holes in the boiler - Tim had fitted a vacuum ejector pipe but I couldn’t see one in any of the photos that I’d look at of the class in that position so removed it. 
 

Looks like this will be going into lines black livery then as that appears to be the most suitable livery, though I may just invoke rule 1 and finish it off in Saxony green. 
 

Whilst on the subject of Saxony green - does anyone produce a suitable match? 
 

Re the Ramsbottom safety valves - no go with CAD I’m afraid - I’m in the school of PAD, though tempted to use lockdown as an excuse to learn CAD. I have spotted that Laurie Griffin produces one for NER S & T classes, so I’ll drop him an email to see if it might be suitable.
 

Fortuitously it appears that I have a copy of North Eastern Record No.3 on the shelf (I acquired a large number of Tim’s books when he passed away, and am still sorting through them all), so that’s this evenings reading sorted.

 

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

 

Whilst on the subject of Saxony green - does anyone produce a suitable match? 
 

 

 

 

Not tried, but they're generally pretty good

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/precisionrailway/pregroup/nerpregroup/14p525

[NeilHB]

Thanks James, I’ll give that a try when I get to the painting stage.

[Dava]

Hi Neil,

I also have one of these kits [Y7] to build and have quite a lot of information inc. photos & a 4mm scale drawing, also photos of 1310 as restored in 1990s and 2015. I have used the Phoenix Saxony Green on a couple of 7mm scale locos and its fine, the Derwent Valley Sentinel and battery electric. Some in my gallery

 

Dava

 

[NeilHB]

Thanks Dave, that’s very useful to know. 

[Signalman Rich]

Neil,

For converting the safety valve cover from whitemetal to brass I have tried 'gold' leaf from the local art shop.  If you paint the safety valve cover with a red oxide paint first, then let it dry. Next apply some Gold size (also from the art shop about £6 or so) and let the size go tacky. Then carefully apply some gold leaf (which is actually very thin brass) on the top.  When dry the brass leaf can be gently burnished.  Varnishing over the top will prevent the brass tarnishing over time.  I have used it with some success for a dome on a little Neilson tank based on a Roxey kit on my Watchmouth Railway. The idea behind the red undercoat is to give more of a gold colour.   The 5 by 5 inch sheets of the leaf cost me 33p per sheet when I last bought some last year. Might be worth a try when the shops open up again?

 

I will try to attach a photo. Hope this may be useful.

Best wishes

Rich

[NeilHB]

Rich, thank you. That looks like a very clever method. 
 

I shall see if I can obtain some from the local Hobbycraft shop (all the traditional Art shops in Derby having now vanished sadly) and give it a go.