East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[Daddyman]

37 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

I think you're being a bit hard on yourself there David, if I may say so . There is certainly a balance necessary in anything like this to stop things getting really excessive but you clearly get things built so provided you're happy, where's the problem?

I'll try to do better, Chas!

 

37 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

There was some discussion recently on Tony Wright's thread about whether or not obsessing over detail is a good thing and I can't remember whether you were part of that chat or not

Not part of it, no - I've been two years clean from Wright Writes: I chose "ignore topic" two years ago this January gone, and have never looked back. 

 

40 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

we try so hard to get things to come out right in art, because it's so difficult in life

What a wonderful way of looking at it! For me it's that life is transient, and modelling allows us to hold on to things in a way that mere memory doesn't. When I look at, say, my D20, all my childhood memories of September evenings walks on the formation of the Berwick, Kelso and St Boswell's near Carham congregate around the model and tempus stops fugitting for a little while (irony alert). 

[Jon4470]

8 hours ago, Daddyman said:

 

 

I don't think it's lack of "skill" that produces bad models, but the willingness to undo and redo things certainly produces better models. But that has to be weighed against the "paralysis" you rightly mention, and there I do not have the balance right. 

 

 

 

 

David

I think that you make a very good point about skill. Thinking about it then modify the statement.

 

There is a need for a basic set of skills and tools. Some knowledge is also required I.e what goes where. These must be all be applied, and with that application comes experience. If this application is made with determination to overcome any hurdles then this experience increases the capability of the modeller. 

 

So I think capability is what I really meant......and capability changes over time.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

8 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

. I like the idea of adding some detail that's not included in a kit - in particular, things that are quite noticeable in photos, such as the vac and steam pipes that run along the valances each side of the C12 - and that gives a sense of satisfaction from trying to do something more than a straight out of the box assembly, but I sense there's a line to draw, a point I've reached with various builds where it feels like 'enough'; otherwise each build would take far too long and I don't know about you but I do find that I get to a point where I'm looking forward to having it finished...

 

Hi Chas

 

the steam and vac pipes are an example of my “journey”  (I hate that phrase).

 

When I built my first loco or carriage kits I didn’t fit these pipes.....I’m not even sure that I saw them on photos! Then I realised that they should be there, and that some brass rod would do the trick. Next, I realised that they had brackets to attach them.....and these could be used on the model to avoid solder blocking the gap between the pipe and the footplate. 

Finally I wondered how people created pipes with right angle joints that looked larger and made of separate parts....like on the real thing.......a page or two ago on here I found out!

 

An order for small bore tube is being prepared

 

One day I might upgrade my earlier models but on the other hand the pull of new kits is much higher - at least for now.

 

Now, it’s about time you posted some photos of your work so I can go back to clicking “likes”!

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, Daddyman said:

What a wonderful way of looking at it! For me it's that life is transient, and modelling allows us to hold on to things in a way that mere memory doesn't. When I look at, say, my D20, all my childhood memories of September evenings walks on the formation of the Berwick, Kelso and St Boswell's near Carham congregate around the model and tempus stops fugitting for a little while (irony alert). 

That's a splendid way to look at it too, David!

I have only been building railways kits for four or five years so they don't yet carry a lot of memories; though I built a huge number of Airfix kits (non-railway) in my youth, sadly I don't now have any of them.

However, the ability to re-connect with memories is one of the main reasons I'm so attached to the layout I mentioned a few posts back, and to the rolling stock I inherited with it. The rolling stock is a typical 1960s to 80s mixture - mainly Tri-Ang and Fleischmann - and covers Britain and some of Europe. Running things from this stock sends the memories swirling, just as you describe. I find also that the sounds and smells are sometimes even more evocative. Some of the locos have a very individual motor sound (the Tri-Ang Lord Of The Isles or Caledonian Single, or the small and high gear-ratio Fleischmanns, especially those that include the extra rack railway gearing) and some have a very characteristic smell when they warm up that takes me right back! I have updated one or two - the Caledonian Single really needed some help to look a little less toy-like IMHO - but generally they stay as they are...

I'm not sure that I agree in there being irony in trying to stop time flying temporarily, in the midst of life's transience (assuming I understood your irony alert correctly?). Isn't it precisely our sense of life's transience that makes us each out and try to hold on to these mental images?

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

David

I think that you make a very good point about skill. Thinking about it then modify the statement.

 

There is a need for a basic set of skills and tools. Some knowledge is also required I.e what goes where. These must be all be applied, and with that application comes experience. If this application is made with determination to overcome any hurdles then this experience increases the capability of the modeller. 

 

So I think capability is what I really meant......and capability changes over time.

 

Jon

Very well put Jon: adding the concept of 'capability' is an interesting new way to look at it .

Edited February 25, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Chas

 

the steam and vac pipes are an example of my “journey”  (I hate that phrase).

 

When I built my first loco or carriage kits I didn’t fit these pipes.....I’m not even sure that I saw them on photos! Then I realised that they should be there, and that some brass rod would do the trick. Next, I realised that they had brackets to attach them.....and these could be used on the model to avoid solder blocking the gap between the pipe and the footplate. 

Finally I wondered how people created pipes with right angle joints that looked larger and made of separate parts....like on the real thing.......a page or two ago on here I found out!

 

An order for small bore tube is being prepared

 

One day I might upgrade my earlier models but on the other hand the pull of new kits is much higher - at least for now.

 

Now, it’s about time you posted some photos of your work so I can go back to clicking “likes”!

 

Jon

Exactly the same here re. those pipes!

 

I'd contacted Will L on the Scalefour forum to ask about a detail in a picture of his C12 (the spark shields, which are in fact included in the LRM kit but it isn't clear on the Isinglass drawing exactly where and at what angle they go, and other pictures were hard to find as they're not often modelled) and he very kindly posted an old photo from the time when he'd been adding them and other detailing. In that picture, the loco had already been painted black but he'd gone back and added various things which were still in bare brass and therefore stood out all the more. The plumbing was very prominent (it looks quite correct of course on the finished model, all in black) and I immediately realised, like you, that I hadn't consciously noticed it in photos before (though clearly we had seen it: "You saw, Watson, but you did not observe...").

 

There is an example here by the way of what we've touched on a few times lately, the advisibility of limiting the amount of detail you decide to add. Those long pipes that run along the whole length of valancing on both sides are one thing - very noticeable, once noticed, not to difficult to map out and model - but there are also some other 'plumbing' pipes and so forth around and behind the rear steps that were in bare brass on Will's photo and that I thereby realised I'd not consciously noticed before...but I decided not to start working out what they were or adding them in, as they are much less prominent and seemed to be a complication too far...

 

I'm still awaiting my small bore tube order, hence spending time on other jobs. Modelling time on the C12 over the last couple of days has been spent looking at incorporating a rear coupling (my need to stay in touch with and maintain compatibility with older RTR rolling stock means that - with another nail in the coffin of any purist claims I might make - I use tension locks ) and also at disguising the tapered rear frame ends and positioning the rear life-guards at a more realistic separation, so no pictures just yet as things are still in flux (no pun intended ), but I will put up some pictures when I get the coupling arranged as I know I'm not the only one trying to fit tenions locks to kit-built locos...

[Chas Levin]

However... changing the subject entirely for a moment, here are some pictures of something quite different.

I try to have a second project - something less demanding - on the go, on a tray I can work on in front of the TV (so that I don't appear to be spending too much time upstairs soldering!) but the tray took an extended Christmas holiday. A little while ago though, I dug this out of the pile, as something simple and easy:

 

This is the same kit as has been re-issued by Peco, though as you can see from the packaging - and especially from the price - this is an original 1970s (?) one.

And here we are, a couple of weeks later, pretty much ready for painting:

 

There's an unfortunate join just below the meeting of the sides and the tops of both the fixed and sliding tilt tops (the sliding part is just posed in these pictures: it'll be fixed in place after painting the interior) which needed filling and filing. You can see it quite clearly in the photos and you can also see it, fairly undisguised, in the photo of a finished model in the original Merit packaging, whcih made me think I should try and improve on that look a little bit. Smoothing it over meant roughening the surrounding area, so I decided to roughen up the whole of both tilt tops and then cover them with a very thin 1-ply layer of solvent soaked tissue, so that after painting it should resemble a canvas-like texture.

 

I've omitted the driver as this vehicle will either be permanently parked somewhere on the layout or used as a load on a Lowmac or similar carrying wagon.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

I've been thinking about the large open gap between the C12's frames where things would be happening on a full-size loco... I'm not about to start trying to incorporate a full inside motion (even a dummy one, let alone a working one) but I wondered whether something might be done to disguise the open air and remembered I'd picked up the item below recently, with some other bits and pieces. I'm not sure though whether it's even remotely suitable and if so, how and where exactly it could be used: can anyone please advise:

 

 

Edited May 2022: another one I can't find the picture for I'm afraid, following the 2022 outtage...

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Daddyman]

9 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I've been thinking about the large open gap between the C12's frames where things would be happening on a full-size loco... I'm not about to start trying to incorporate a full inside motion (even a dummy one, let alone a working one) but I wondered whether something might be done to disguise the open air and remembered I'd picked up the item below recently, with some other bits and pieces. I'm not sure though whether it's even remotely suitable and if so, how and where exactly it could be used: can anyone please advise:

 

 

That's not suitable, no, Chas. It's for an A3, and actually goes on the front of the loco - between the curved frame extensions below the smokebox door / above the buffer beam, and gives access to the inside motion from the front. 

 

My advice would be to get the loco done and go back to the inside motion later if you feel the need. 

 

When your small bore tube arrives (or before) I'll post some step-by-step photos of how I do the valance-side vacuum pipes if you and Jon wish. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Daddyman

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

That's not suitable, no, Chas. It's for an A3, and actually goes on the front of the loco - between the curved frame extensions below the smokebox door / above the buffer beam, and gives access to the inside motion from the front. 

 

My advice would be to get the loco done and go back to the inside motion later if you feel the need. 

 

When your small bore tube arrives (or before) I'll post some step-by-step photos of how I do the valance-side vacuum pipes if you and Jon wish. 

Thanks David, sound advice; I shall side-step this latest distracting detail for now (and pop that part in the box with the A3 kit that's in my pile for a future build, one for when my capability has increased...).

 

Thank you very much for the offer of step-by-step valance-side pipe guidance: I would certainly appreciate that and I expect Jon would too .

The tubing should be here within the next day or two as it's now been despatched (it had been held up because something else on the same order was out of stock, but when I found that out I asked them to split the order and send on the tubing, for a little extra postage) so please feel free to post the photos whenever is convenient with you: even if the tubing still hasn't arrived when you put up the pictures, some preparatory study won't go amiss...

[Daddyman]

OK, so here goes. These sketches give an overview - ask if anything's not clear: 

 

 

Here's a photo of the front end. It's very hard to get a clear shot - hence the sketches above. 

 

 

This is the connection at the cab, referred to in the sketches. This is a feature of C15s and C16s - not sure if it applies to other tank engines. I can't get this one to focus very well, sorry. 

 

Here are some work-in-progress photos. First up is the "nicking" of the 0.9 tube for the corner pieces. The triangular file is probably more like 60 degrees than the necessary 90, so wiggle it a bit to make the nick wider and thus aid bending at 90. Leave enough length at the end to allow gripping for bending; don't try to cut out a stage by getting that part to length now - you just won't be able to grip it.   

Next, bend at as close to 90 degrees as possible (it might not want to bend to true 90, so don't push it), and solder in the back of the "knee", then bend to true 90 (in that order - otherwise, there's a danger of the knee snapping): 

 

This photo shows quite a few steps. I've cut off one end and dressed it so that the whole length of that "leg" is about 1.5mm. I've also nicked the other "leg" with the saw to aid cutting when there's little to get hold of (in my experience things can go wrong here), and I've drilled 0.45 or 0.4 (can't remember which, sorry - check what you can get into the 0.8 tube) for the wire and inserted the latter. You'll notice that, as on the sketch, I've drilled right through: the wires have a tendency to move a little during soldering, so having this extra purchase won't do any harm; it might also be useful as a point for gripping when filing or fitting. 

 

Finally, I've detached the component from the tube and am about to start dressing the second "leg". 

It was at this point that I lost the b thing on the floor....  But anyway, I think you get the idea: dress the second leg to 1.5-ish length, solder a length of wire in, and then connect it to a piece of 0.8 tube (remember corners = 0.9; straights = 0.8). Then repeat to your hearts' content. 

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

OK, so here goes. These sketches give an overview - ask if anything's not clear: 

 

 

Here's a photo of the front end. It's very hard to get a clear shot - hence the sketches above. 

 

 

This is the connection at the cab, referred to in the sketches. This is a feature of C15s and C16s - not sure if it applies to other tank engines. I can't get this one to focus very well, sorry. 

 

Here are some work-in-progress photos. First up is the "nicking" of the 0.9 tube for the corner pieces. The triangular file is probably more like 60 degrees than the necessary 90, so wiggle it a bit to make the nick wider and thus aid bending at 90. Leave enough length at the end to allow gripping for bending; don't try to cut out a stage by getting that part to length now - you just won't be able to grip it.   

Next, bend at as close to 90 degrees as possible (it might not want to bend to true 90, so don't push it), and solder in the back of the "knee", then bend to true 90 (in that order - otherwise, there's a danger of the knee snapping): 

 

This photo shows quite a few steps. I've cut off one end and dressed it so that the whole length of that "leg" is about 1.5mm. I've also nicked the other "leg" with the saw to aid cutting when there's little to get hold of (in my experience things can go wrong here), and I've drilled 0.45 or 0.4 (can't remember which, sorry - check what you can get into the 0.8 tube) for the wire and inserted the latter. You'll notice that, as on the sketch, I've drilled right through: the wires have a tendency to move a little during soldering, so having this extra purchase won't do any harm; it might also be useful as a point for gripping when filing or fitting. 

 

Finally, I've detached the component from the tube and am about to start dressing the second "leg". 

It was at this point that I lost the b thing on the floor....  But anyway, I think you get the idea: dress the second leg to 1.5-ish length, solder a length of wire in, and then connect it to a piece of 0.8 tube (remember corners = 0.9; straights = 0.8). Then repeat to your hearts' content. 

Marvellous: thank you very much David. Very helpful to see photos of the finished assemblies when they're not attached to a loco, as it helps to be able to visualise what I'm aiming at. Very neat work - they look superb!

The sketches are excellent too, as you've included all sorts of helpful tips that I wouldn't have thought of. Inserting the 0.45mm wire right through and out the other side of the elbows like that isn't something I'd thought of and clearly makes it a lot easier.

Also your points about leaving longer lengths on - and nicking with the saw to aid cutting later when there's less to grip: I've spotted a few occasions in recent modelling where leaving surplus length in place until after work's been done and then trimming has helped, but I've also missed a few, so it's not yet second nature.

 

A couple of questions, if I may: if a 90 degree filed nick for elbow bending is better that 60 degrees, can that be done using a square file instead of a triangular, or does that give an incorrect profile to the cut in some way?

For the braces, I was intending to use scrap brass etch: is the copper strip you mention better - is it thinner, or more malleable perhaps?

The connection at the cab: I can't see this on any C2/12 photos (and I've now got together quite a few, mainly selected for showing details clearly) but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't there, as it may be invisible from normal viewing angles. If you have any, please could you post a picture(s) showing how this connection occurs on the C15s/16s? That might help me to work out whether it it was on the C2/12 or not.

[Daddyman]

4 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Marvellous: thank you very much David. Very helpful to see photos of the finished assemblies when they're not attached to a loco, as it helps to be able to visualise what I'm aiming at. Very neat work - they look superb!

The sketches are excellent too, as you've included all sorts of helpful tips that I wouldn't have thought of. Inserting the 0.45mm wire right through and out the other side of the elbows like that isn't something I'd thought of and clearly makes it a lot easier.

Also your points about leaving longer lengths on - and nicking with the saw to aid cutting later when there's less to grip: I've spotted a few occasions in recent modelling where leaving surplus length in place until after work's been done and then trimming has helped, but I've also missed a few, so it's not yet second nature.

 

A couple of questions, if I may: if a 90 degree filed nick for elbow bending is better that 60 degrees, can that be done using a square file instead of a triangular, or does that give an incorrect profile to the cut in some way?

For the braces, I was intending to use scrap brass etch: is the copper strip you mention better - is it thinner, or more malleable perhaps?

The connection at the cab: I can't see this on any C2/12 photos (and I've now got together quite a few, mainly selected for showing details clearly) but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't there, as it may be invisible from normal viewing angles. If you have any, please could you post a picture(s) showing how this connection occurs on the C15s/16s? That might help me to work out whether it it was on the C2/12 or not.

My pleasure, Chas! 

 

I think you can use the square file, yes. I often do when the triangular file goes missing! (It's a "reserved occupation" tool at my house, so should always be on the window sill - but often isn't...) 

 

Scrap brass strip might work, but I suspect it will be too thick, given that most kits are etched in at least 10 thou; it could also be that any spare fret is too wide. The Hobby Holidays stuff is 4 thou by 0.62 (two inches), which looks about right. The ones in the photo are actually supplied in the C16 kit and are half-etched. 

 

I can't see a connection at the cab on the C12 either - assuming this is a C12 below? Click through this set of photos if you haven't found them already - there are some very clear shots. I've had the C16 pictures open permanently for weeks!   

 

Here it is on the C16: 

[Chas Levin]

On 27/02/2021 at 14:57, Daddyman said:

Scrap brass strip might work, but I suspect it will be too thick, given that most kits are etched in at least 10 thou; it could also be that any spare fret is too wide. The Hobby Holidays stuff is 4 thou by 0.62 (two inches), which looks about right. The ones in the photo are actually supplied in the C16 kit and are half-etched.

Ha: the problem of wandering tools. I've become quite - perhaps excessively - careful about every tool that I use even occasionally having one place in which it lives: it means I spend more time than I'd like tidying up and returning things to their 'homes' but I things go astray less often... for the most part... generally .

 

Hobby Holidays are out of the 4 thou strip - wouldn't you just know it! Wizard and Eileens both do 1 mm by 5 thou which would be thin enough but perhaps a touch wide. I'll order some and see but in the meantime, I think I have some spare bits of half-etch (overlays for alternate versions of wagon solebars and so forth) so I might see if I can cut suitable pieces - they're so short that it might be OK.

 

On 27/02/2021 at 14:57, Daddyman said:

I can't see a connection at the cab on the C12 either - assuming this is a C12 below? Click through this set of photos if you haven't found them already - there are some very clear shots. I've had the C16 pictures open permanently for weeks!   

 

Here it is on the C16: 

Some nice C12s on the Transports of Delight site - I've visited it before but haven't really dug into it; I shall explore further.

 

Thank you for the C16 shots - I'm now sure that cab connection is not present on the C2/C12. Interesting: I wonder what its function was? Did it perhaps allow control of vac and steam systems from inside the cab?

 

Meanwhile, my first attempt at tubing to hold the brake hangers on their wires didn't quite work as intended. The wires are 0.7 mm so I reasoned that tubing with a 0.8 mm id would allow a little wiggle room and ease the rigging on and off. Turns out that 0.1 mm is way more than 'wiggle room': it's just plain loose! No-one seems to do 0.75mm id, so I have some 0.7 on order and if that's too tight I'll take the smallest amount I can off the wires to ease the fit.

I might go for a combination of pivoting and removable rigging, by having the rear ends of the pull rods inserting into pieces of tubing soldered to the brake cross shaft levers, while they still pivot on the cross shaft: so removing the rigging will be a case of unhooking the hangers, pivoting down the rigging and then removing the pull rod ends from their tube 'holders' .

 

Meanwhile, the Thorneycroft lorry has had a coat of primer:

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Daddyman]

12 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Hobby Holidays are out of the 4 thou strip - wouldn't you just know it! Wizard and Eileens both do 1 mm by 5 thou which would be thin enough but perhaps a touch wide. I'll order some and see but in the meantime, I think I have some spare bits of half-etch (overlays for alternate versions of wagon solebars and so forth) so I might see if I can cut suitable pieces - they're so short that it might be OK.

The wagon strapping might work. But you could also make your own straps: solder a piece of 0.6 wire on to something rigid (15 thou will do at a push, but a piece of PCB is better); file it flat, unsolder, flip it over, solder again, and file the opposite side flat. You can also use the Vernier, knowing the depth of your PCB, to judge when you have filed it to 5 thou (0.15mm?), but I often do the last bit with the wire unsoldered from the backing. In that case, though, you have to be careful to only use the file one way; if you go backwards and forwards you'll crumple the wire and have to start again! You might have to leave a bit of waste at the end for gripping, etc. I do a piece about 6cm long at a time. I spend my life doing it, but it allows you to do all sorts of things that off-the-shelf bits of wire won't allow. You can even do half-round of course: guess how! 

 

 

EDIT: the strapping supplied in the C16 kit is 0.75. Not sure if that helps with anything. You'd still have to file it from wire. I have no evidence for using 0.6; 52F may have evidence for using 0.75. 

 

That lorry looks nice! 

 

I don't know what to suggest with your brake tubes. Can you crimp the tube? Or does this tube have to be able to be removed from the wire?  

Edited February 28, 2021 by Daddyman

[Paul Cram]

You could run a .75mm drill through the .7mm tube. You may only need to do a small amount to get the wire started.

[Chas Levin]

11 hours ago, Daddyman said:

The wagon strapping might work. But you could also make your own straps: solder a piece of 0.6 wire on to something rigid (15 thou will do at a push, but a piece of PCB is better); file it flat, unsolder, flip it over, solder again, and file the opposite side flat. You can also use the Vernier, knowing the depth of your PCB, to judge when you have filed it to 5 thou (0.15mm?), but I often do the last bit with the wire unsoldered from the backing. In that case, though, you have to be careful to only use the file one way; if you go backwards and forwards you'll crumple the wire and have to start again! You might have to leave a bit of waste at the end for gripping, etc. I do a piece about 6cm long at a time. I spend my life doing it, but it allows you to do all sorts of things that off-the-shelf bits of wire won't allow. You can even do half-round of course: guess how! 

 

EDIT: the strapping supplied in the C16 kit is 0.75. Not sure if that helps with anything. You'd still have to file it from wire. I have no evidence for using 0.6; 52F may have evidence for using 0.75.

Hm... interesting. How do you ensure that the piece is of a (reasonably) uniform thickness though? I would have thought that the file would tend to depart from being truly parallel to the wire at times, so that if viewed in profile and under very high magnification I might end up with what looks like a map of some hills? I'm guessing the answer to my question is a) practice and b) the pieces are sufficiently short that minor variation isn't perceivable.

I think I'll try cutting pieces first, either from scrap half-etch or from the 5 thou strips on the way from Wizard, but if neither works then filing wire flat it is: thank you for the suggestion : it's definitely one worth filing away (sorry!!) for when I need something that's really narrow.

 

When trying to assess the dimensions of things like this I look at the picture and measure something of which I already know the dimensions, then use that to scale the unknown thing - I'm guessing that's what most poeple do too? Looking at various photos there is some slight variation in the strapping of these pipes: I'd guess they were added - or replaced following wear or damage - at different times by different workshops who probably used whatever they had on hand, so I'd say we were pretty safe in using something that appears similar to at least some of the photos...

 

11 hours ago, Daddyman said:

That lorry looks nice!

 

Thanks - I've been looking through a lot of photos this afternoon in pursuit of livery guidance, as I'd like to do something a bit different to the standard 'R. Hall & Sons' or GWR, and a bit closer to home...

 

11 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I don't know what to suggest with your brake tubes. Can you crimp the tube? Or does this tube have to be able to be removed from the wire?  

Not to worry: I suspect the 0.7mm id tube will do the job - it's for the pieces of tube that are soldered to the upper ends of the brake hangers, to fit over the wires from which the hangers are suspended, allowing the brake rigging to be removable so it needs to be snug but removable.

Interesting learning experience for me in things like scale, clearances and so forth: I had no idea that a 0.1 mm difference could provide so much slop!

[Chas Levin]

10 hours ago, Paul Cram said:

You could run a .75mm drill through the .7mm tube. You may only need to do a small amount to get the wire started.

Oops: another example of my lack of experience and slow thinking! Of course it would be far easier to ream out the tubing that reduce the wire's diameter .

Thank you Paul. I like to think I would have thought of this when I sat down to do the job, but I can also see myself struggling to file down one or two of the protruding wires before the light dawned, so you have probably saved some shocking language.

Actually, a broach might also work well, because the pieces of tubing that will actually be used will only be able 2mm long and the slight taper might be just right for easing the initial fitting but retaining some grip further in...

[Chas Levin]

On 15/02/2021 at 21:45, Chas Levin said:

"...the rod - or pipe - that passes out of the right-hand tank front and enters the side of the smokebox wrapper, just above and just behind the hole for the cylinder lubricator..."

A couple of weeks ago I added the part referred to above and asked if anyone knew what it was and what it did - it's in this photo, running below and parallel to the handrail:

 

Paul Craig (the designer of this kit) replied to manna's thread on the LNER Info forum (where I'd also asked about this pipe and neither of us knew its function) and explained that it's a blower pipe, going from the the smokebox back to the cab.

One way it was used was when locos were stopped in tunnels with the regulator closed off, when the crew needed to keep the fire drawing properly to guard against it possibly getting smothered and going out.

I've since also read that it's sometimes used when the regulator is closed during running too, to maintain a draught through the smokebox and in tunnels where the compression of air by a fast moving loco (acting as a sort of piston) could create a back pressure and a blowback if the firebox door is open .

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Compound2632]

On 27/02/2021 at 21:35, Chas Levin said:

Meanwhile, the Thorneycroft lorry has had a coat of primer:

 

 

I don't know much about road vehicles but I'm at a loss to understand what the U-shaped piece of plastic is supposed to represent. 

[Chas Levin]

On 02/03/2021 at 09:41, Compound2632 said:

I don't know much about road vehicles but I'm at a loss to understand what the U-shaped piece of plastic is supposed to represent. 

It does look a bit odd sitting next to the rest of the body like that, doesn't it? It's sliding - rear - part of the Tilt Top - here's a photo of it in place, though not yet fixed, as the lorry is only part-way through the paint shop:

 

Meanwhile, in other news, yesterday's post brought the 0.9/0.8/0.7/0.6 tubing, so I made a start early this morning.

I'll have to deviate a little David from your method of attaching the vac pipes by drilling 0.8 up into their ends, as it seems the ones with this kit (which are crisper castings than any others I have) are themselves a 0.8mm OD, so I've drilled 0.5 into their ends and will attach them with 0.45 wire, as per the other parts. Neither join to the vac pipes will be prominent - they're both partially hidden under the end beams - so I think that should be fine.

Drilling 0.5 mm holes into the ends of the 0.8 mm pipes went surprisingly well, though it took all my available modelling time before work as I went slowly and carefully .

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

It's sliding - rear - part of the Tilt Top

 

I got that; it was its prototypicality I was doubting. A quick google didn't reveal anything like. The usual arrangement seems to have been a canvas or tarpaulin cover, possibly tailored, over a frame of metal hoops or similar. Possibly one could have such a frame that would slide along but for that, I'd want photographic evidence. It looks to me as if the kit designer was seduced by those bogie steel wagons of the sort recently done as a RTR model.

[Darryl Tooley]

48 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I'd want photographic evidence.

which may be found on p61 of Great Western Road Vehicles (Philip J Kelley, OPC, 2002).  

 

The two photos show GWR Thornycroft No 1334, a type PB 4-tonner (the type represented by the kit), with the sliding tilt in closed and fully forward positions, in which latter the leading edge of the sliding tilt extends as far foward as the radiator.

 

Construction appears to be of wood covered with canvas.

 

I do not know if anybody else used this arrangement.  However given that, according to the caption, the tilt was supplied by an outside contractor, the Portsmouth Motor Company, it seems quite possible.

 

D

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

which may be found on p61 of Great Western Road Vehicles (Philip J Kelley, OPC, 2002).  

 

The two photos show GWR Thornycroft No 1334, a type PB 4-tonner (the type represented by the kit), with the sliding tilt in closed and fully forward positions, in which latter the leading edge of the sliding tilt extends as far foward as the radiator.

 

Construction appears to be of wood covered with canvas.

 

I do not know if anybody else used this arrangement.  However given that, according to the caption, the tilt was supplied by an outside contractor, the Portsmouth Motor Company, it seems quite possible.

 

Thanks. Surprised, but reassured!

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Darryl Tooley said:

which may be found on p61 of Great Western Road Vehicles (Philip J Kelley, OPC, 2002).  

 

The two photos show GWR Thornycroft No 1334, a type PB 4-tonner (the type represented by the kit), with the sliding tilt in closed and fully forward positions, in which latter the leading edge of the sliding tilt extends as far foward as the radiator.

 

Construction appears to be of wood covered with canvas.

 

I do not know if anybody else used this arrangement.  However given that, according to the caption, the tilt was supplied by an outside contractor, the Portsmouth Motor Company, it seems quite possible.

 

D

Thanks Darryl, very interesting. I hadn't been worrying as much as usual about authenticity on this one for two reasons: partly because it was just meant as a bit of fun and partly because - as you may have guessed from the choice of paint colour - it's going to be one of those 'might have been' vehicles, in LNER Express Parcel Service livery. Hence I've been trawling through photos of LNER road vehicles and quietly ignoring the specific type of lorry, relative to the region!

In Brian Stephenson's 'LNER Album Volume Three' (Ian Allan 1976) on page 117 there's a photo of a Dennis 30 cwt lorry with a very similar tilt top, which I've taken as my - admittedly rather shaky - prototype evidence...!