RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 6, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) Delighted to report that the gap has been closed! I started off with two pieces of scrap NS etch (from the chassis part of the kit), suitably trimmed and cleaned up: Then, a quick dry run to check that they would fit and that the boiler could still be got in and out: Then, the challenge of holding two thin pieces at about 75 degrees to the tank top with the edges exactly parallel - hair clips plus some Kapton tape, the latter added after this photo: And then, following some careful filing, sanding and cleaning up, this is the result: Generally I think it's turned out very well. The gaps either side are still a tiny bit uneven - it's not obvious from this photo but the righthand side is a little wider - but the boiler is still only sitting unsecured in place and I'm pretty sure that there'll be ample opportunity to set it dead centrally when it's fixed, plus some more finishing work. Thank you Jol, David and Paul for your kind help - and thank you again Paul for the Yeadon page scans and the drawing you PM'd me: clearly I need to expand my library a little... Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 7, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Boiler (including inner support piece at the cab end) and smokebox wrapper now in place: A lot of cleaning up to do but good to have this done. In spite of taking what I thought was enough care, tiny (less than half a mil) errors have crept in to the boiler alignment in two places. Nothing too major and both can I think be disguised by slight 'massaging' of later fittings, but slightly frustrating nonethless. The boiler was being held in place by the cab front, the smokebox front and the side tanks and only moved with a little effort, so having aligned it and checked it very carefully before tacking at the cab end and then checking again, I'm a little puzzled as to what happened. Well, there it is: clearly, either there was movement, unpercieved by me, or my checking of alignment was faulty or hurried. Moral of the story: align once, check four times. And don't rely on apparently immobile parts - secure in some other way too . I found the smokebox wrapper quite difficult and didn't manage to avoid getting solder on it, which meant losing the matt half-etch surface texture in the consequent cleaning up. Clearly practice will improve my Wrapper Technique - I'm fine sweating things from the back but there's already a double later of full thickness brass in place with the wrapper going on top so I didn't think that would work. Amongst the next tasks, Thistle Lubricators. I haven't yet found anyone doing castings and if I can't find any with a little more searching, I'll make some. The only thing I've so far thought of for the small globe-shaped tops is a lead shot.... Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chas Levin said: -Amongst the next tasks, Thistle Lubricators. I haven't yet found anyone doing castings and if I can't find any with a little more searching, I'll make some. The only thing I've so far thought of for the small globe-shaped tops is a lead shot.... Are these any good, Chas? https://www.caley.com/fitting.php They're listed as "cylinder lubricators" and there are two or three different types on the sprue. From what I can see of C12 photos on the internet, they just have standard ball lubricators, which the Caley Coaches sprue includes. Nice job on the tank-top gap! Pity about the boiler. Can you do anything? I can't quite work out from your post what has gone wrong - is it not parallel along the length of the loco, or is 12 o'clock not at 12 o'clock? Edited February 7, 2021 by Daddyman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 7, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daddyman said: Are these any good, Chas? https://www.caley.com/fitting.php They're listed as "cylinder lubricators" and there are two or three different types on the sprue. From what I can see of C12 photos on the internet, they just have standard ball lubricators, which the Caley Coaches sprue includes. Nice job on the tank-top gap! Pity about the boiler. Can you do anything? I can't quite work out from your post what has gone wrong - is it not parallel along the length of the loco, or is 12 o'clock not at 12 o'clock? Thanks for the link David, I haven't come across them before. I'll order a set and see - there are plenty of other things to be doing while it's on the way. The boiler issues are very slight and yes, I think I can deal with them. It's parallel to the footplate but it's ever so slightly out in the left to right plane where it meets the vertical smokebox front. I think that either that smokebox front wasn't dead centre but was slightly off to the left, or both tanks were ever so slightly off to the right, because the boiler is nicely parallel to the tanks (and given how much time I've spent over the last few days examining the gaps between the boiler and the side tanks, you'll appreciate that I was quite focussed on the boiler's alignment to the tanks!). The gaps between the side tank fronts and the boiler are equal too, another confirmation that boiler and tanks agree. We're talking a very small amount though, a third of a mil or so. I'll thin down the slight raised righthand edge of the smokebox front to give the ridge below the level of the wrapper and set the smokebox door a fifth of a mil leftwards so that it appears central when viewed from the front. The other error is - from what I've read - a bit of a classic and it's the one I'm most surprised about, 12 o'cock not being 12 o'clock, as you describe it (much more succinct than how I would have tried to describe it!). I measured and re-measured the heights of the handrail knob holes from the footplate on both sides and spent some time adjusting the yaw of the boiler (I think that's right, isn't it - pitch would mean front to back movement?). I was pretty confident in then going ahead and soldering, because the boiler was gripped quite tightly by those extended inner side tank edges that I'd added - it wasn't moving on its own, I had to move it quite positively. Yet clearly, it must have moved! Again, not the end of the world. I'll gently ease the rear handrail knob holes on the boiler and the entry holes in the tank fronts a tiny bit up or down as needed, so as to minimise any handrail tilt and there's a small round collar that fits over the point of entry into the tank front which will cover the change. On the rear boiler handrail knob hole, I should be able to ease the hole upwards a fraction and mount the knob a little high, then fill in underneath with solder. Again, we're talking very small amounts here, I haven't measured exactly yet but no more than half a mil. Am I being too perfectionist? I see others' models and they look absolutely perfect (well, not all of them of course, but many) so it seems reasonable to aim for the same. Yet I also know that while I obsess over small errors while building, they then recede into the background and stop being so troubling to me once the model is finished. I look at models now that I built a few years ago and although in a few cases I can still immediately point to errors, in others I struggle to remember what it was that I thought so wrong at the time. Is this others' experience too? A teacher at school used to say 'aim at the stars and you might hit a chimney pot'. He didn't mention that a few months later you might not remember where the chimney pot was...... Edited February 7, 2021 by Chas Levin Self-doubt... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 10 hours ago, Chas Levin said: Thanks for the link David, I haven't come across them before. I'll order a set and see - there are plenty of other things to be doing while it's on the way. The boiler issues are very slight and yes, I think I can deal with them. It's parallel to the footplate but it's ever so slightly out in the left to right plane where it meets the vertical smokebox front. I think that either that smokebox front wasn't dead centre but was slightly off to the left, or both tanks were ever so slightly off to the right, because the boiler is nicely parallel to the tanks (and given how much time I've spent over the last few days examining the gaps between the boiler and the side tanks, you'll appreciate that I was quite focussed on the boiler's alignment to the tanks!). The gaps between the side tank fronts and the boiler are equal too, another confirmation that boiler and tanks agree. We're talking a very small amount though, a third of a mil or so. I'll thin down the slight raised righthand edge of the smokebox front to give the ridge below the level of the wrapper and set the smokebox door a fifth of a mil leftwards so that it appears central when viewed from the front. The other error is - from what I've read - a bit of a classic and it's the one I'm most surprised about, 12 o'cock not being 12 o'clock, as you describe it (much more succinct than how I would have tried to describe it!). I measured and re-measured the heights of the handrail knob holes from the footplate on both sides and spent some time adjusting the yaw of the boiler (I think that's right, isn't it - pitch would mean front to back movement?). I was pretty confident in then going ahead and soldering, because the boiler was gripped quite tightly by those extended inner side tank edges that I'd added - it wasn't moving on its own, I had to move it quite positively. Yet clearly, it must have moved! Again, not the end of the world. I'll gently ease the rear handrail knob holes on the boiler and the entry holes in the tank fronts a tiny bit up or down as needed, so as to minimise any handrail tilt and there's a small round collar that fits over the point of entry into the tank front which will cover the change. On the rear boiler handrail knob hole, I should be able to ease the hole upwards a fraction and mount the knob a little high, then fill in underneath with solder. Again, we're talking very small amounts here, I haven't measured exactly yet but no more than half a mil. Am I being too perfectionist? I see others' models and they look absolutely perfect (well, not all of them of course, but many) so it seems reasonable to aim for the same. Yet I also know that while I obsess over small errors while building, they then recede into the background and stop being so troubling to me once the model is finished. I look at models now that I built a few years ago and although in a few cases I can still immediately point to errors, in others I struggle to remember what it was that I thought so wrong at the time. Is this others' experience too? A teacher at school used to say 'aim at the stars and you might hit a chimney pot'. He didn't mention that a few months later you might not remember where the chimney pot was...... Sorry about that, Chas - rough for you. It seems like you have some solutions worked out, though. I'd always go for perfection myself, for one simple reason: depending on how old you are, you might have to look at the model for decades. So although it might feel like a faff spending an hour fixing something, once you divide that hour by the decades, it becomes very insignificant - and much more preferable than having it niggle for years. I mentioned this to a friend who had done some repairs to one of the chimneys of his house, and he said, "yes, every time I go into the garden, that lead flashing still annoys me twenty years later". Moral of the story: you have to look at models sub specie aeternitatis: from the point of view of eternity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 8, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 Thanks David, I appreciate the kind words! I agree about the long-term wisdom of getting it right; I'm 54 so I hope to be looking at these models for some considerable time yet . I don't mind the extra 'faff' so much, it's where undoing things would create more problems or damage, that I hesitate. In this case, I'm afraid I missed the misalignments until after I'd soldered the boiler very firmly in place (including the inner support piece) and I didn't think it would be possible to soften the solder at both ends of the boiler simultaneously in order to move it. One way might have been to melt the bond with the smokebox front and then bend that front piece away from the boiler, in order to be able to soften and move the other end... but I felt that by the time I'd applied sufficient heat to do that and messed about with things generally, it might cause other problems and that the better option would be the slight adjustments I mentioned in my last post. Entirely my fault - I don't know how I missed it. I found that the only way to judge that the boiler was correctly aligned with the smokebox front was to hold it with a finger each side, so that I could feel the two pieces in alignment and that's how I held it while I worked on it. I think what must have happened though is that in concentrating on depositing the solder in the right place, my concentration on continuously feeling that alignment must have slipped (along with the boiler!). As I say, not the end of the world and unlike your friend with the annoying lead flashing, I don't think this will be one of those situations, once I've adjusted things a little, given the very small inaccuracies. I got most of the cleaning up done early this morning, then boiler fittings (which will be absolutely vertical!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chas Levin said: Thanks David, I appreciate the kind words! I agree about the long-term wisdom of getting it right; I'm 54 so I hope to be looking at these models for some considerable time yet . I don't mind the extra 'faff' so much, it's where undoing things would create more problems or damage, that I hesitate. In this case, I'm afraid I missed the misalignments until after I'd soldered the boiler very firmly in place (including the inner support piece) and I didn't think it would be possible to soften the solder at both ends of the boiler simultaneously in order to move it. One way might have been to melt the bond with the smokebox front and then bend that front piece away from the boiler, in order to be able to soften and move the other end... but I felt that by the time I'd applied sufficient heat to do that and messed about with things generally, it might cause other problems and that the better option would be the slight adjustments I mentioned in my last post. Entirely my fault - I don't know how I missed it. I found that the only way to judge that the boiler was correctly aligned with the smokebox front was to hold it with a finger each side, so that I could feel the two pieces in alignment and that's how I held it while I worked on it. I think what must have happened though is that in concentrating on depositing the solder in the right place, my concentration on continuously feeling that alignment must have slipped (along with the boiler!). As I say, not the end of the world and unlike your friend with the annoying lead flashing, I don't think this will be one of those situations, once I've adjusted things a little, given the very small inaccuracies. I got most of the cleaning up done early this morning, then boiler fittings (which will be absolutely vertical!) Sounds like you'll get there with the adjustments you mention, Chas. Good luck! Re aligning boiler fittings, there's a potentially useful tool here, though you could make your own with careful use of the Brandreth method on the Mitutoyo: http://www.poppyswoodtech.co.uk/ (scroll down to "straight down the middle") 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 8, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 Thanks David! And thanks for the excellent tip about the Poppys 'Straight Down the Middle' jig: it's been a while since I looked at their site and I don't remember seeing this - just ordered one, as I can't afford any more inaccuracy on this kit . I have a good quality engineer's square but this looks like a useful aid too, as it can be directly positioned on the model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 10, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Ok, back on track (after Boilergate ), all handrails now in place (aside from the one that will go on the smokebox door): Some careful re-working of the mounting holes allowed the ones that run along the boiler to be made straight, level and parallel to the footplate. They were my first experiance of soldering handrail knobs from the outside though, which I would not recommend to anyone! I had thought about fixing them in place before fixing the boiler but I though that the heat needed to fix the boiler and smokebox wrapper might affect the knobs and that correcting that might make a mess: in the event, I wish I had done it that way. Between soldering them from the outside, and having to move the mouting holes slightly for a couple of them, I was unable to make them quite as neat and clean as the other ones that were doen from the inside, but they look fine from normal viewing distance and I'll doa littel more cleaning up on them in due course. Next will be the brake column inside the cab, and then I think, some plumbing: I'm going to have a go at fabricating vac and steam pipes, the ones that run along the footplate sides . Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Chas, handrail knobs are just one thing for which an RSU is ideal. I have had one for a long time and find in invaluable for adding the fine detail, overlays such as smokebox wrappers, etc. RSUs aren't cheap but I've had mine for about 30+ years so a good long term investment. For handrail knobs I use a carbon tip with a flat end and drill a small dimple in that. I tin the knob, put in place in the boiler, apply the probe tip, check the alignment and press the pedal, job done. Jol 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 Chas, re valance-side vacuum pipes, I don't know if this is any help. I wanted to do a posh job on the C16. The corners are 0.9 tube and the main straight 0.8mm tube (both from Eileen's), with 0.45 (or thereabouts) wire threaded through. I nicked the 0.9 tube in the back of the "knee" with a triangular mouse-tail file so as to get a sharp 90-degree bend. Strapping remains to be added. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 10, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said: Chas, handrail knobs are just one thing for which an RSU is ideal. I have had one for a long time and find in invaluable for adding the fine detail, overlays such as smokebox wrappers, etc. RSUs aren't cheap but I've had mine for about 30+ years so a good long term investment. For handrail knobs I use a carbon tip with a flat end and drill a small dimple in that. I tin the knob, put in place in the boiler, apply the probe tip, check the alignment and press the pedal, job done. Jol That's very interesting Jol, thank you. Until now I've largely discounted RSUs as I enjoy soldering with an iron, but as I try to improve the neatness of my work whilst at the same time increasing the amount of fine detail, perhaps I should re-evaluate... It did occur to me though - unfortunately after doing them - that I should have tried something similar to what you've described there, but with my existing iron: tinning the know, inserting into the hole and then positioning the iton tip on the top of the knob and hopefully heating - and the surrounding edges of the hole - sufficiently. Have you ever tired that, with a conventional iron I mean? My iron's a decent one, an 80W Weller, variable from 50 to 350 degrees, so it has plenty of welly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 10, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, Daddyman said: Chas, re valance-side vacuum pipes, I don't know if this is any help. I wanted to do a posh job on the C16. The corners are 0.9 tube and the main straight 0.8mm tube (both from Eileen's), with 0.45 (or thereabouts) wire threaded through. I nicked the 0.9 tube in the back of the "knee" with a triangular mouse-tail file so as to get a sharp 90-degree bend. Strapping remains to be added. Brilliant - thanks David! Believe it or not, I hadn't thought of tubing (a bit ridiculous as tubing it what's being modelled...) and I'd been looking at using solid wire, which left me wondering about the easiest way to join the corner pieces... which can of course be easily done as you have there, by threading thinner wire through! Did you use the same thickness on each side, for vac and steam connections? I've looked at a few photos and it looks to me as if one may be slightly thinner, so I thought I'd try doing that too - can't remember which it was, have to check. It also looks to be the case on the Isinglass drawin, though we're talking fractions of a mil so I may be imagining it. Might do it anyway, just to add an extra bit of variety. Right, just time to order some tubing (I'm sure I don't have any that narrow in stock) before the end of lunch . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chas Levin said: That's very interesting Jol, thank you. Until now I've largely discounted RSUs as I enjoy soldering with an iron, but as I try to improve the neatness of my work whilst at the same time increasing the amount of fine detail, perhaps I should re-evaluate... It did occur to me though - unfortunately after doing them - that I should have tried something similar to what you've described there, but with my existing iron: tinning the know, inserting into the hole and then positioning the iton tip on the top of the knob and hopefully heating - and the surrounding edges of the hole - sufficiently. Have you ever tired that, with a conventional iron I mean? My iron's a decent one, an 80W Weller, variable from 50 to 350 degrees, so it has plenty of welly... I've never tried that with my 50W Antex but I suspect it wouldn't work very well. The knob will act as a heat flow restrictor and probably also lose quite a bit of heat (large surface/volume ratio), whereas will the RSU it doesn't do it so much for then current flow. I always had to apply the iron to the boiler/w.h.y. to get a good joint with a regular iron and also had to do a cleanup job afterwards. If you haven't already seen it, this video by David Brandreth is excellent. https://www.scaleforum.org/demonstrators/david-brandreth-resistance-soldering/ 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Chas Levin said: Brilliant - thanks David! Believe it or not, I hadn't thought of tubing (a bit ridiculous as tubing it what's being modelled...) and I'd been looking at using solid wire, which left me wondering about the easiest way to join the corner pieces... which can of course be easily done as you have there, by threading thinner wire through! Did you use the same thickness on each side, for vac and steam connections? I've looked at a few photos and it looks to me as if one may be slightly thinner, so I thought I'd try doing that too - can't remember which it was, have to check. It also looks to be the case on the Isinglass drawin, though we're talking fractions of a mil so I may be imagining it. Might do it anyway, just to add an extra bit of variety. Right, just time to order some tubing (I'm sure I don't have any that narrow in stock) before the end of lunch . Happy to help, Chas. I always do the valance-side vac pipes as 0.8, having measured Maude at Bo'ness. That looks right for NER locos too, but other companies could possibly have differed (though it seems unlikely). I think you're right that steam are narrower and I'm currently debating what to use for the C16. I think I'll start with 0.6, leave it to stew for a few days, and then go to 0.7 if 0.6 doesn't feel right. Eileen's have a wonderful range of tubes, down to 0.4, meaning that you can make hollow sandpipes and all sorts of other goodies! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 10, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 53 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said: I've never tried that with my 50W Antex but I suspect it wouldn't work very well. The knob will act as a heat flow restrictor and probably also lose quite a bit of heat (large surface/volume ratio), whereas will the RSU it doesn't do it so much for then current flow. I always had to apply the iron to the boiler/w.h.y. to get a good joint with a regular iron and also had to do a cleanup job afterwards. If you haven't already seen it, this video by David Brandreth is excellent. https://www.scaleforum.org/demonstrators/david-brandreth-resistance-soldering/ Yes, I suspect you're right: I might try it on piece of scrap just to see, but I'll have a look at that video too. You're certainly right about the cleaning up necessary using an iron externally for rail knobs; one good thing that come from this current project is that my solder clean-up skills are being consdierably improved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 10, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 41 minutes ago, Daddyman said: Happy to help, Chas. I always do the valance-side vac pipes as 0.8, having measured Maude at Bo'ness. That looks right for NER locos too, but other companies could possibly have differed (though it seems unlikely). I think you're right that steam are narrower and I'm currently debating what to use for the C16. I think I'll start with 0.6, leave it to stew for a few days, and then go to 0.7 if 0.6 doesn't feel right. Eileen's have a wonderful range of tubes, down to 0.4, meaning that you can make hollow sandpipes and all sorts of other goodies! Yes, I'd just been thinking similarly, that 6>7 should look perceptibly smaller than 8>9 at normal viewing distance and I've just ordered 6 to 9 mil sizes to experiment. Not sure I'll be trying hollow sandpipes this time around though! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 11, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) A small, time-consuming but for me quite prominent feature dealt with, the final, double-layer boiler-band that butts up against the cab front: I went with the etched boiler bands in the first place because at that point I'd intended painting in black and thought they would need to be there, plus I wanted to see if I could get them on, reasonably accurately; I'm now going to be doing GNR lined passenger livery so I could I suspect have used insulating tape and the lining would have given them suitable prominence. I'm pleased with how they look though, so they're staying. Adding this last one, which has a stepped two-layer profile, was more fiddly than anticipated, partly because the cab roof is not in place - though that made the clean-up easier - and because the others were added before the boiler was fixed. There's one more to do, the one that runs under the dome, but the kit was a band short for the configuration I wanted to use (there was more than one pattern of boiler band, I discovered) plus of course having an etched brass band going under the dome would have made getting a good fit for the dome more difficult, so that one is going to be added - after the dome - using a double layer of tape. Hopefully I can replicate the profile of the brass ones to a sufficient degree on the two shortish runs either side of the dome that it'll pass muster, at any rate at NVD (normal viewing distance!). There's a similar but flat semi-circular overlay to go along the lower curved edge of the cab front / spectacle plate, that mates with the stepped band I just installed, so I may do that next, plus the cab brake column. Exactly how - and at what point in the painting process - the cab roof gets fixed, in order to be able to conceal the join properly, is another thing I'm considering... Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 11, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) This is the corresponding semi-circular overlay for the bottom of the spectacle plate, that mates with the end boiler band I did this morning - it's easier because you can sweat it on from the inside and because I left it attached to part of the fret: With it on and the etch detached, you can see how the two parts mate: And with a little preliminary fettling, the join looks like it will be quite good: It still needs soem cleaning up and a little more taking off the inside of the upper curve but I'm going very carefully on that to avoid taking off too much - just enough so that the roof feet can seat in their location slots properly. There's a very slight twist to the cab at the moment so that the lefthand foot is slightly forward and the righthand one slightly toofar back, but I'll need to adjust it very carefully because any distortion would be irritatingly notieceable. Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Chas Levin said: This is the corresponding semi-circular overlay for the bottom of the spectacle plate, that mates with the end boiler band I did this morning - it's easier because you can sweat it on from the inside and because I left it attached to part of the fret: With it on and the etch detached, you can see how the two parts mate: And with a little preliminary fettling, the join looks like it will be quite good: It still needs soem cleaning up and a little more taking off the inside of the upper curve but I'm going very carefully on that to avoid taking off too much - just enough so that the roof feet can seat in their location slots properly. There's a very slight twist to the cab at the moment so that the lefthand foot is slightly forward and the righthand one slightly toofar back, but I'll need to adjust it very carefully because any distortion would be irritatingly notieceable. Very nicely done. I don't suppose you could get rid of the tabs and add some feet to the bottom of the cab front with 14BA nuts attached and bolt them to the tank tops from below? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 11, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Daddyman said: Very nicely done. I don't suppose you could get rid of the tabs and add some feet to the bottom of the cab front with 14BA nuts attached and bolt them to the tank tops from below? Now that is a superb idea: thank you! I could also bend the tabs on the rear cab wall back slightly so they hook under the bunker floor when the bolts are on the front. Brilliant: much more secure than glue, and it'll look neater - I'll be able to touch in at the roof-to-main body joins if need be. Using enough glue to do the job without any oozing where it shouldn't is no easy task and that's before you worry about cyano blooming. I'd been thinking I might glue it at the primer stage, after fully painting the cab interior, so that any bloom or ooze wipe-away marks would be covered by paint, but as I'm planning to spray the first main green coat, I figured I'd have to mask the spectacle openings and doorways sufficiently well to prevent any spray entering the cab, whilst allowing it to do the door and window frames, which meant masking the insides of the openings...Sheesh. Bolts shall be my saviour! Thanks again David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Chas Levin said: Now that is a superb idea: thank you! I could also bend the tabs on the rear cab wall back slightly so they hook under the bunker floor when the bolts are on the front. Brilliant: much more secure than glue, and it'll look neater - I'll be able to touch in at the roof-to-main body joins if need be. Using enough glue to do the job without any oozing where it shouldn't is no easy task and that's before you worry about cyano blooming. I'd been thinking I might glue it at the primer stage, after fully painting the cab interior, so that any bloom or ooze wipe-away marks would be covered by paint, but as I'm planning to spray the first main green coat, I figured I'd have to mask the spectacle openings and doorways sufficiently well to prevent any spray entering the cab, whilst allowing it to do the door and window frames, which meant masking the insides of the openings...Sheesh. Bolts shall be my saviour! Thanks again David Happy to help, Chas! I was reminded by Mick Nicholson (micknich2003 on here) a year or so ago of the old modeller's adage: "don't solder when you can bolt". I've bolted everything I can ever since. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 12, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) On 12/02/2021 at 07:08, Daddyman said: Happy to help, Chas! I was reminded by Mick Nicholson (micknich2003 on here) a year or so ago of the old modeller's adage: "don't solder when you can bolt". I've bolted everything I can ever since. It's an excellent thought. I've read various poeple advising bolting, in particular the idea of constructing the whole loco as bolted together sub-assemblies (for ease of painting amongst other reasons) but the loco I built before this one (a DJH white-metal) didn't easily lend itself to that - or perhaps it was just a combination of my inexperience and the attractiveness of completing a one-piece white-metal body. I should have tried to keep the idea more in the forefront of my plans with this etched kit though. I had a look this morning and it won't be quite as easy as I'd thought last night, because the part of the cab floor fold-up that forms the vertical front wall of the cab comes up directly underneath the two slots that the cab roof tabs go down into. In fact the tabs sit on top of that front fold-up section. But I think it can still be done, it'll just need a little more thought. In the meantime, we now have a hand brake column (0.45mm wire on top of 0.9mm wire): The second photo also hows the lefthand cab roof locating slot in the tank top and you can see how it's directly in line with the cab front underneath it. I'm thinking about filing out underneath it to a sufficient amount to allow extension pieces soldered to the roof tabs to reach down far enough to allow fixing points... I won't be able to attach nuts to those extended tabs (or they wouldn't fit through the slots) but all they'd need is holes, which could then line up with captive nuts fixed low down on cab front wall... Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2021 I don't quite see the issue, Chas, but these things are hard to put into words! This is what I was thinking, but I'm not sure if you'd have access to the bolt from below, though. Does this make sense? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted February 12, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Ahh - got you! I had misunderstood slightly and gone down the path of extending the tabs on the roof front vertically downwards and messing about with bolts below stairs. Thank you - that picture certainly says a thousand words, as they say! Ok, so that would work on the LH side, where the tank top carries on rearwards, past the line of the cab front and where there is indeed access underneath - here's a photo of that side ('scuse the lack of cleaning up inside the cab): But on the RH side, the tank top drops down to the level of the built-up inner cab splasher (actually it's where the reversing screw casting will go) at the point where the tank top meets the cab front: (And that photo hopefully also illustrates how the lower cab front comes up immediately underneath the tank top slots). I do have access underneath however to that lower vertical cab front section, so... I wonder whether this might work: Hope that's clear: instead of the bolt going vertically through the tank top, it would go horizontally, from inside the tank, through the vertical lower section of the cab front, then through an extension piece joined to the cab roof tab, then through a captive nut on the lower cab front wall. There's access inside/underneath, though access to both areas inside/underneath will be a little awkward, especially to tighten up that RH side bolt inside the tank, but do-able I think . Inside the cab, the captive nut and the bolt end would be behind the reversing screw casting and I'm sure invisible... Edited May 12, 2022 by Chas Levin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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