East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[Chas Levin]

Smokebox door done today. The boss (which I hope is the correct term for the raised circular section on the back) was 0.9mm larger in diameter than the corresponding hole in the smokebox nickel-silver front. Another very useful lesson learned here and next time, I'll test-fit absolutely everything I can before starting any assembly, as well as test-fitting anything that occurs to me as I go along! It would have been much easier to widen the hole in the NS piece, while it was still flat, whereas I couldn't do that by this stage, mainly because of the lead ballast inside the front of the boiler but also because of the vac standpipe. Therefore, the boss had to be reduced, which called for some careful work as I didn't want to damage the flat edge of the rear face. Here it is, after filing and drilling of holes, along with its dart (a casting that came with the kit and which looks fine to me from normal viewing, though I did think about the homemade option David...), 0.45mm handrail wire and knobs:

 

And here's the result, with the main cleaning up done - final fancifying will be part of the final cleaning up:

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

A milestone reached today: the last soldering jobs done!

First, the lower part of the handbrake column, attached to the lever (crank?) on the end of the brake cross shaft - on the prototype it would of course be part of the same column that comes up through the cab floor, but in this case, I stopped it beneath the floor, as it's part of the chassis and needs to lift away from the underside of the body; from normal viewing angles the disconnect doesn't show of course.

I started off with longer pieces of wire for ease of handing:

 

And here it is trimmed, also showing where it stops short of the cab floor:

 

And then, finally, the last soldered detail, the lamp iron above the smokebox door. This was filed down from one of the cloverleaf base GNR ones that come with the kit:

 

The chassis, front bogie, rear radial truck, brake rigging and cab roof are now ready for pre-painting prep, while the body will have things like the smokebox door and tank filler caps araldited in place...

 

Meanwhile, in painting up some white metal packing cases to put into a Hornby wagon (I think they were Knightwing, but bought sufficiently long ago that I can't recall for sure), I thought I'd start with a variety of colours to suggest different origins and types of wood, before giving them all a weathering wash. It occurred to me that it might be interesting to see the various colours side by side, as I sometimes find myself unsure as to how they compare, for instance when working on teak effect paintwork:

 

They're all Phoenix Precision, on top of Tetrosyl Etch Primer; anti-clockwise, from the top right corner, they are: two in GNR Frame Chocolate, two in GNR Freight Brown, Weathered Teak, LNER Coach Teak, Golden Teak, two in Natural Wood and the last one in Teak Basecoat.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

No, it's not a strange Modern Sculpture, just the chassis, brake rigging, bogie and backhead cleaned and reading for masking and priming (though if anyone thinks Tate Modern might be interested...):

 

I'm trying a slightly different preparation routine, as suggested in Ian Rathbone's book. After a gentle scrub with Barkeeper's Friend, followed by Viakal to get rid of the accumulated limescale (both of those products actually recommendations from another professional model painter, Warren Haywood), I then used 2mm and 4mm fibreglass brushes to deal with both the tarnish and with the dark powdery surface deposits that appear on the solder in reaction with the BKF and Viakal.

Ian suggests in his book that it can be done in this order (using the FG brush after water+cleaning agents, to clear both tarnish and reactant in one hit), providing the model is absolutely dry before the FG brush is used and provided that all the FG fibres are removed, and I liked the idea of getting rid of two problems in one go: so far, the results seem excellent!

Then, a compressed air aerosol (outdoors) to get rid of as much of the fibreglass 'droppings' as possible, before a final careful wash in cellulose thinners, to remove the last of those annoying fibres, plus any stray dirt or grease. I try to use a latex glove much of the time to hold the model from a fairly early stage in construction (they used to be difficult to get hold of - not a problem these days!) but I'm always surprised at how much foreign matter still appears.

 

Meanwhile, the Hornby Armstrong Whitworth wagon now has its cargo - these are the Knightwing white-metal crates that were given those various shades of brown in my last post, seen here after a very thinned Humbrol black wash and then a little distressing, done while the final application of Testors Dullcote was still wet:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

Turns out there were two more things that could be soldered - the tank filler caps:

 

They have spigots and locating holes are in the tank tops, so they can be soldered from inside the tanks in the same way as the boiler fittings, pre-tinning around the holes with 145 and fixing from beneath with 70: I don't know why I didn't think of that before - I'd put them with the smokebox door for aralditing...

 

I've also been busy building what promises to be an extremely useful gadget, not just for this project but for many others - anyone know what this is going to be?

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Woodcock29]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Turns out there were two more things that could be soldered - the tank filler caps:

 

 

They have spigots and locating holes are in the tank tops, so they can be soldered from inside the tanks in the same way as the boiler fittings, pre-tinning around the holes with 145 and fixing from beneath with 70: I don't know why I didn't think of that before - I'd put them with the smokebox door for aralditing...

 

I've also been busy building what promises to be an extremely useful gadget, not just for this project but for many others - anyone know what this is going to be?

 

A bending tool?

[Chas Levin]

23 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

A bending tool?

Hello Andrew - no, it's not, but I can see how it looks like one.

 

It's going to be a stand for holding loco bodies - or coach bodies - while they're being painted and lined, including a way to posistion compasses for lining arcs on things like splashers. It's a design from Ian Rathbone's 'Painting and Lining', a very clever gadget that makes difficult work - especially lining - much easier. If you have the book, have a look at page 68 - there are photos and a description. He's clearly put some careful through into every part of it and I'm very much looking forward to using it; I won't bore you with descriptions of how it works - it'll be quicker and easier to post pictures, once it's finished.

Has anyone else built one of these?

Edited April 24, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

An exciting package arrived yesterday, from Express Paints, an automotive paint company in Portsmouth who do a custom aerosol paint matching service (usual disclaimers). I'd sent them a brass panel, about 4" square, etch primed and then given a couple of coats - brushed - of Phoenix Precision's GNR Light Green.

Here are two panels side by side for comparison: the one on the left (with the patch of primer showing) is the PPP one and the one on the right is the Express Paints one, two aerosol cellulose coats over etch primer:

 

To my eye, it's not an absolutely perfect match, even allowing for the far superior sprayed cellulose finish compared to my embarrassingly hasty brushwork, but it's pretty good! The cellulose looks very slightly darker and there's a slight tinge of what I should call olive to the PPP that's absent in the aerosol, though some of the difference is due I think to the different types of paint and the different application methods. I brush-painted the sample in a hurry, without stopping to think that the aerosol would give a very smooth and even finish so that I should take the time to do the same, in order to facilitate the most accurate comparison. Also, of course, this is a very unforgiving close-up of a flat surface, in strong sunlight, far removed from how the final model will be seen...

 

Here's another comparison, this time with someone else's version of GNR Light Green between them, colour No. 10 from E. F. Carter's Britain's Railway Liveries; the PPP panel is above, the Express Paints below Mr. Carter's sample:

 

The Carter sample is a little worn through rubbing on the opposite page of the book which makes it look slightly lighter, but if you look at the small patch towards the upper right corner where there is least wear; compare that to the patch of thicker and more even PPP paint just above it and slightly to the left of centre; and compare both those patches to the Express Paints version, I think they're all close enough for jazz.

 

Ian Rathbone makes the point in his book that when Carter was writing (1952) he'd have judged the various shades from his own personal experience, plus that of other people he consulted, not to mention the various preserved locos mentioned in the text, whose paintwork would at that date have been through fewer repaints since new than they have today.

 

Given the variety of shades of this colour that I've seen in photos and on models, differences due to lighting, underlying surfaces and application methods, variations due to aging and weathering and batch variations from the original GNR paint suppliers, I think this aerosol is very usable, though I'd be interested to know what others think...

 

While the exact shade is of course extremely important, there are also a number of other advantages to this product, not least the high quality finish from sprayed cellulose, even from a rattle can and the fact that I can add the darker green outer framing and the black and white lining using enamels, removing and correcting mistakes very easily.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The C2's smokebox door is now on, which really is the last piece:

 

There are some odd visual effects in these pictures - everything's straight where it should be, though it may not look it! And the apparent round-cornered rectangular smoke ring in the second photo is the LED array in my magnifier lamp reflecting on the piece of blue card I'm using as  background...

 

More progress on the lining stand - this photo makes it a bit clearer how it's used:

 

The last piece, yet to be made, is a moveable rest, made from copper clad board and sleepers, that fits across the two thick brass pieces, running the length of the loco and pushing up close against the footplate - photos to follow, which will make it clearer.

 

In the meantime, some more of things as they are presently - here are a couple showing how the two thick brass strips use the loco body's own fixing points:

 

And here's one showing the brass strips removed from the base - the very pronounced bend in the right-hand piece is deliberate and part of the design, ensuring that the piece is gripped tightly between the two screwed down wooden pieces. There are two short slots cut in the end of that piece, to allow it to be levered out using a screwdriver:

 

Also visible is the wood screw, put back into a hole in the base after removal of the left-hand brass strip's fixing bracket - holes can be made at any desired place for that screw, to cater for different lengths of body.

Everything's been made as suggested in Ian's book, with a couple of very minor modifications: I had to cut shoulders into the tops of the thick brass strips as this C2 has those cosmatic rear frame end pieces fixed to the body, narrowing the accessible area around the rear fixing point; and not having thicker than 0.35mm scrap for the various fixing brackets that mate with the loco body and the wooden base, I added some strengthening pieces of brass wire and scrap NS etch respectively, as the scrap etch on its own was a little flexible with the weight of the loco body and the thick brass pieces attached together.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The last piece of the puzzle, the sliding platform:

 

A piece of copper clad board - and by the way there appears to be a misprint on page 68 of Ian Rathbone's book, where it gives the dims of this platform as 23mm by 60mm: it should be 230mm, as can be seen in the photos where it's alongside the main platform which is 250mm long - with sleepers of the same material soldered on. The gap between the sleepers is a snug fit on the brass pieces, so that the platform can slide but doesn't wobble. The second set is for use with shorter chassis - the one in the book has three sets, but I can always add another set later if needed (by which time my copper clad sleeper soldering might have become a little tidier ).

I found getting the separation between the sleepers right was the most difficult part of this build: I didn't want to use the actual brass pieces for fear of accidentally soldering them too, so I used a pair of coffee stirrers as a spacer, but the brass piece for which they were a substitute is the one with the bend, which made judgement difficult. It works, but I need to do a little fettling and widen the gap at one end slightly. It was also another lesson in the importance of accuracy at all times: the gap between the two screwed down wooden pieces is not exactly uniform, so the curved brass piece deforms slightly differently when it's in place one way round, compared to the other way.

 

Here's the platform, right way up, in place on the unit and moved up against the bottoms of the guard irons:

 

The body shown in the book being lined on the stand has no chassis parts fixed under it, and no piping runs, both of which get in the way here. However, it's the final stage of the process that will take care of that, the addition of a piece of plastic card - the main intention of this is to provide a surface for a compass point to pierce, when lining curves such as splashers, but it will also enable secure location of the platform in a case like this one. Ian uses the plastic card butted up, underneath the underside of the footplate and hard against the inside of either the buffer or the drag beam, but in this case, because of the various fittings under the footplate, I'll have to cut a custom shaped piece to fit round the obstructions - here's a piece on top of the platform, ready to be cut to shape, just to show how it'll work:

 

When you've finished one side - or one colour on one side - you remove the loco and the brass pieces, loosen and flip round the bolted securing bracket on the straight brass piece, turn everything over and mount it the other way round:

 

The 'prototype' in the book also has additional spacing wood underneath to allow working on 7mm models, but I didn't do that as I'm not going to be doing 7mm. I did however add stick-on foam strips under the base, to stop it sliding around:

 

Believe it or not, the blockboard from which the base is made has sentimental attachment: it was part of a homemade worktop for making Arifix kits that my dad installed in my room as a boy, and I think it was quite an old offcut even then . The two screwed down wooden pieces are offcuts from a small cupboard door of similar vintage - the cupboard is long gone, but I'd kept the doors in my scrap wood box as they were good solid stock. There's something very satisfying about seeing things like these re-surface in new guises from time to time...

 

Because the body is securely bolted by its own purpose-made fixings, it's solidly and safely held and can be turned, inspected and manipulated very easily, which was quite refreshing after getting used to handling it so very carefully to avoid damaging the various delicate fittings:

 

I'll add pictures of it in use in due course - I'll be lining the chassis first. That's already been primed and had its first coat of Phoenix Precision GNR Loco Frames Chocolate, with black for the ashpan and brake gear.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Jon4470]

Hi Chas

I’d completely forgotten about this jig......I must re-read Ian’s book! 

 

It looks interesting and I’ll be interested to see how it works out for you. 

 

One of my modelling “jobs to do” is a complete refresh and re- practice on lining......I’m too hit or miss at the moment.

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Chas

I’d completely forgotten about this jig......I must re-read Ian’s book! 

 

It looks interesting and I’ll be interested to see how it works out for you. 

 

One of my modelling “jobs to do” is a complete refresh and re- practice on lining......I’m too hit or miss at the moment.

 

Jon

Morning Jon - 'jig' - thank you, that word has been on the tip of my tongue for the last few days while building it and I couldn't remember it; 'gadget' felt wrong and 'stand' not much better...

 

I've seen some others on forum posts but they tended to rely on foam cradles or similarly imprecise fixings and the first thing that immediately struck me about this one is the absolutely secure mounting of the item to be painted (I don't only plan to use it for lining). The provision for use of compasses for curves is also of course one of its major selling points...

 

All I've lined to date are teak coaches and doing those felt like walking a miniature tightrope - almost literally, with the coach body wedged into a foam cradle with extra foam pieces to try to stop any movement, while my hand hovered above it, wrist balanced on a piece of wood of suitable height: less than ideal!

 

I'm going to use one of those green painted brass colour sample squares to do a practice lined 'GNR' panel and although it's just a flat piece of brass, I'll mount it on something to allow use of this jig, so as to get some practice at using that too.

[Chas Levin]

Took a break from painting today, to try out Birchwood Casey blueing liquid. I'd never tried colouring the wheels on rolling stock before (aside from white rims where possible, as I like the look of them so much!) and having tried an only partially successful watered down paint wash on the rims of the DJH J9/10, I thought it was about time I tried proper chemical blackening and it does look really good - please ignore the yellow spoke, that was just to mark this wheel as a spare, from a set used for setting up chassis, on which I tested the treatment; also, this is before any buffing:

 

However, I followed the obvious method - as per the instructions on the bottle - of laying the wheel on a flat surface and around the rim with a cotton bud of liquid and the resulting colouring was rather uneven - unusually, it actually looks rather better in this photo than in real life.

The problem is that no matter how careful I was, the point where the bud first made contact with the rim inevitably received more liquid then the surrounding area, even when I tried moving the bud in line with the rim but just above it, lowering it into  contact while still moving.

So: if moving the cotton bud against the stationery wheel produces an uneven effect, I thought I'd try moving the wheel against a stationery cotton bud, by mounting the wheel in a slow-moving drill chuck: much better results, highly recommended!

Also perfectly practical with bogie wheels held on cocktail sticks:

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

"...Ten green wheels, sitting on the wall..."

 

 

Having decided to spray the wheels (partly because I still can't get as even a finish by brushing as I can by spraying, partly so that the colour of the wheels exactly matches the body) I've spent some time over the last few days experimenting on spare wheels, trying different ways of masking the tyres and treads, whilst also looking at ways to achieve coverage of the spoke sides and the insides of the rims. I found it almost impossible to achieve full coverage of those inner areas by only spraying from the front, without also flooding the centre boss area and the front edges of the spokes.

Stopping paint finding its way where it shouldn't suggested completely enveloping the rims in masking tape, while reaching the rear areas of the spoke sides and the insides of the rims was solved by spraying both front and back.

 

Here's stage one, where the wheel is completely encased in a folded piece of (Tamiya) masking tape:

 

 

Next, I ran a razor blade very carefully round the inside edges of the tyres; this was done slowly, under the magnifier lamp and it's fairly straightforward because the rims guide the blade, even on the bogie wheels, where there's a slight height difference between the tyre and the centre. I then put a spare crankpin into each driver to prevent paint getting in and for spraying the back, an axle was inserted from the front, with a piece of masking tape over the rear centre boss where the axle will meet the wheel:

 

 

Here's the result after priming of both sides:

 

 

Next, a quick coat of green to the back, which deposits enough on the rear inside areas between the spokes and around the inside of the rim to compensate for the poor reach when spraying from the front:

 

 

A couple of coats to the front, off with the masking tape, some very minimal and careful removal of tiny amounts of paint that still managed to find their way under the edges of the tape and here's the result:

 

 

From an angle, you can also hopefully see that this method gives good coverage of those difficult to reach inner areas too:

 

 

They're not all absolutely perfect - a couple have very slightly less than complete coverage in a few small spots, but they can be touched in by brush and as the areas in question are at the inner backs of the spokes and rims, it won't show from normal viewing angles. All in all, I think they've turned out very well:

 

 

I'll also re-touch the blackening of the tyre fronts in a few places, but I need to work out a way of doing that without using a cotton bud, because I don't want the blackening liquid to get on - or under the egde of - the paint if I can avoid it and it tends to spread a bit when the cotton bud is pressed against the metal.

 

Can anyone advise on blackening tyres on painted wheels? Looking at the contents of the Birchwood Casey brew, it's apprently a cocktail of three different acids plus some other nasty stuff and I can't help thinking that might upset either the primer or the top coat, even though both are cellulose...

 

The frames are now also done in GNR Frame Chocolate:

 

 

Lining will have to wait until the Phoenix Precision vermilion paint arrives: some sources give the frame lining colour as red (and E F Carter's book gives both red and vermilion for different years) but Nigel Digby's Pre-Grouping Liveries book gives vermilion both in the text and in the pictures and it was this that alerted me to the fact that I had misunderstood what vermilion actually looks like. I'd always thought it was basically another name for scarlet, but it's rather pinker than that and it'll differentiate the frame lining nicely from the buffer beams.

[Jon4470]

16 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

"...Ten green wheels, sitting on the wall..."

 

 

Having decided to spray the wheels (partly because I still can't get as even a finish by brushing as I can by spraying, partly so that the colour of the wheels exactly matches the body) I've spent some time over the last few days experimenting on spare wheels, trying different ways of masking the tyres and treads, whilst also looking at ways to achieve coverage of the spoke sides and the insides of the rims. I found it almost impossible to achieve full coverage of those inner areas by only spraying from the front, without also flooding the centre boss area and the front edges of the spokes.

Stopping paint finding its way where it shouldn't suggested completely enveloping the rims in masking tape, while reaching the rear areas of the spoke sides and the insides of the rims was solved by spraying both front and back.

 

Here's stage one, where the wheel is completely encased in a folded piece of (Tamiya) masking tape:

 

 

Next, I ran a razor blade very carefully round the inside edges of the tyres; this was done slowly, under the magnifier lamp and it's fairly straightforward because the rims guide the blade, even on the bogie wheels, where there's a slight height difference between the tyre and the centre. I then put a spare crankpin into each driver to prevent paint getting in and for spraying the back, an axle was inserted from the front, with a piece of masking tape over the rear centre boss where the axle will meet the wheel:

 

 

Here's the result after priming of both sides:

 

 

Next, a quick coat of green to the back, which deposits enough on the rear inside areas between the spokes and around the inside of the rim to compensate for the poor reach when spraying from the front:

 

 

A couple of coats to the front, off with the masking tape, some very minimal and careful removal of tiny amounts of paint that still managed to find their way under the edges of the tape and here's the result:

 

 

From an angle, you can also hopefully see that this method gives good coverage of those difficult to reach inner areas too:

 

 

They're not all absolutely perfect - a couple have very slightly less than complete coverage in a few small spots, but they can be touched in by brush and as the areas in question are at the inner backs of the spokes and rims, it won't show from normal viewing angles. All in all, I think they've turned out very well:

 

 

I'll also re-touch the blackening of the tyre fronts in a few places, but I need to work out a way of doing that without using a cotton bud, because I don't want the blackening liquid to get on - or under the egde of - the paint if I can avoid it and it tends to spread a bit when the cotton bud is pressed against the metal.

 

Can anyone advise on blackening tyres on painted wheels? Looking at the contents of the Birchwood Casey brew, it's apprently a cocktail of three different acids plus some other nasty stuff and I can't help thinking that might upset either the primer or the top coat, even though both are cellulose...

 

The frames are now also done in GNR Frame Chocolate:

 

 

Lining will have to wait until the Phoenix Precision vermilion paint arrives: some sources give the frame lining colour as red (and E F Carter's book gives both red and vermilion for different years) but Nigel Digby's Pre-Grouping Liveries book gives vermilion both in the text and in the pictures and it was this that alerted me to the fact that I had misunderstood what vermilion actually looks like. I'd always thought it was basically another name for scarlet, but it's rather pinker than that and it'll differentiate the frame lining nicely from the buffer beams.

 

Hi Chas

The wheels look good and I think that you are correct that spray painting is worth the effort ( that’s another thing on my list to remember to do next time!)

 

For LNER green wheels I have wondered whether it is possible to create a mask out of thin plastic so that the black and white lining on the rims can be spray painted i.e two circles of slightly different diameters. To get the registration correct would be a challenge though.

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

3 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hi Chas

The wheels look good and I think that you are correct that spray painting is worth the effort ( that’s another thing on my list to remember to do next time!)

 

For LNER green wheels I have wondered whether it is possible to create a mask out of thin plastic so that the black and white lining on the rims can be spray painted i.e two circles of slightly different diameters. To get the registration correct would be a challenge though.

 

Jon

Hello Jon, thanks, glad you like them!

 

I'm not sure that spraying for lining would work, because of the precision needed. Any mask would I believe need to be in intimate contact with the surrounding surface (a term I picked up from the world of reel to reel tape machines, where you often read in service manuals about the need for the tape to be in 'intimate contact' with the surfaces of the heads, because a separation of even a few microns affects the high frequenty response). Otherwise, paint finds its way under the edges - hence the frequent use of masking tape, where contact is nothing if not intimate: I don't think you'd be able to ensure that a thin plastic mask achieved that - though I'm happy to be corrected of course. You could perhaps use a mask made from masking tape, with the circular patterns cut out, but cutting the circular section out really accurately would I think be very difficult. Maybe you could have one large circle (stamped out from a circular cutter for accuracy) covering the whole centre, up to the inside of the lining, and another piece of masking tape to cover the tyres and rims, as I did above? But again, you'd have to cut out both masks extremely accurately so that the thin circular gap between them was absolutely even, because lining with varying thickness is surprisingly noticeable. You'd also need to make two sets of the masks, for the two colours - I was quite relieved to learn that GNR wheels are only lined in black!

 

I have to say I think a bow pen is the best way to do lining that I've seen. I thought they'd be very difficult to use and steered clear for ages, but when I came to do my first lined coach I bit the bullet and they're actually very easy, given a little practice. Do you use one?

I am working on a plan for doing the circular lining around the centre boss for these GNR wheels using a bow pen which I think would be much easier than masking and spraying and which would be equally applicable to rims. It uses the fact that wheels are small and circular, so that moving round them against a stationery brush or bow pen can give a good circle - like the way I did the Birchwood Casey blackening, two posts back. I realised by the way that it might not be clear from my post above about the painting, that these wheels were sprayed whilst mounted in a drill chuck - bogie wheels on toothpicks, drivers on their axles - using a Bosch battery powered drill that also doubles as an electric screwdriver, so it has very slow speeds.

 

The problem with mounting the wheels in a drill to line them is how to support the drill - a fairly heavy, awkwardly shaped and oddly balanced object - with the wheel facing upwards, the drill kept perfectly stationery and some way of resting the hand that holds the brush or bow pen absolutely still too. I've been thinking about some sort of small, slow turntable, on which a wheel could be mounted, while the hand holding the bow pen rests on something alongside it. Any slow turning device would do - I've been considering using a reel to reel tape machine, laid on its back. Another possibility might be the motor part of a food mixer, but I suspect they turn far too quickly. Yet another alternative - more promising I think - would be a homemade jig, using a small electric motor mounted with the spindle vertical, carrying a platform for the wheel (which could be mounted on it with blutak). It could of course be controlled with a normal railway controller, giving slow accurate speed - given the use of a suitable gearbox of course. I'll post photos if I come up with anything good; thinking further about it as I write this, I think that'll be easier because the only two tape machines I have in the house currently are very large and are installed, vertically, such that moving them about would be quite a nuisance and certainly not something I should want to do each time some wheels needed lining! Somewhere, I think I have a fairly small 24v motor that might turn slowly enough on a 0-12V controller though...

 

In Ian Rathbone's book, he shows the use of compasses with the spike replaced with a piece of brass wire (the same device he uses for lining loco bodies where there is a parallel edge to follow), the wire set against the wheel rim to give the correct offset (page 89). This is a great method, but - very impressively - he does by holding the wheel axle in his other hand and I don't trust that I could hold and turn the wheel steadily and evenly enough to get a really clean, accurate line: these are the first wheels I've ever tried lining, whereas the one he's shown lining in the book... well, I shouldn't be surprised if the number of wheels he's lined is into four figures by now!

 

Another huge advantge of spraying wheels in cellulose is that you can remove mistakes in lining done with enamel paint with ease: I would recommend this to anyone considering this job.

Speaking of which, I highly recommend the custom aerosols from Express Paints (usual disclaimer, no connection etc). The 400ml cans feel very full and heavy, the spraying nozzle gives a superb fine mist and they have an astonishing long 'Use By' date of ten years stamped on the base - to April 2031! I found this very surprising and I'm not sure I'd be entirely confident of using a decade old aerosol, but even if that date's a little on the optimistic side, it suggests that anywhere up to half that time is probably pretty reliable. They're not cheap - with VAT, delivery and a flat fee for spectral matching they work out at nearly £20 each - but I think they're work it, given the results...

[Jon4470]

Hi Chas

i do use a bow pen. My results are not consistent enough for my liking. Consequently I have promised myself that, before I next line a model, I’m going to practice a lot ( and buy plenty of new pots of paint). White and black are my least favourite colours to line with.....they always seem to be too gloopy and go off really quickly.

 

As for lining wheels.....I did get as far as this jig a few months ago ( before I lost interest ).

 

 

Something similar to your thoughts - though not powered.

There is a brass tube inserted in the wood block and the wheel is placed onto this ( it replaces the axle). The brass pin from the compasses fits into the brass tube. After these photos were taken I shortened the brass axle so that the wheel rests flat on the wood and not in mid air!

The important thing is precision.....making sure that the lining circle is concentric with the wheel. (And getting any white paint to flow out of the compasses)

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

Hello Jon, that's very interesting: I hadn't thought of putting the spike of the compass into the centre hole. Is the compass point a fairly snug fit in the brass tube, to stop it wobbling?

 

And are you turning the wheel by hand? Or have I misunderstood and the wheel stays stationery while you move the pen?

 

Paint flow is a whole other issue too. I got very good results lining LNER coaches, using a 50-50 mix of Humbrol 7 (Buff) and 69 (Yellow), both gloss. This was from a recommendation on (I think) an LNER Info forum thread.

 

Concerns about black and white Humbrols and how they flow are why I haven't yet started lining the wheels: I've ordered some black and white from Phoenix Precision, to see whether they flow better: which brands of black and white did you try?

[Jon4470]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Hello Jon, that's very interesting: I hadn't thought of putting the spike of the compass into the centre hole. Is the compass point a fairly snug fit in the brass tube, to stop it wobbling?

 

And are you turning the wheel by hand? Or have I misunderstood and the wheel stays stationery while you move the pen?

 

Paint flow is a whole other issue too. I got very good results lining LNER coaches, using a 50-50 mix of Humbrol 7 (Buff) and 69 (Yellow), both gloss. This was from a recommendation on (I think) an LNER Info forum thread.

 

Concerns about black and white Humbrols and how they flow are why I haven't yet started lining the wheels: I've ordered some black and white from Phoenix Precision, to see whether they flow better: which brands of black and white did you try?

 

I was planning to turn the wheel by hand and keep the compass stationary. When I tried it though, it seemed easier to turn the compasses. As you have already deduced, the problem is stopping any wobble.

 

As for black and white - so far I have stuck with humbrol. I have no problems with their red and buff ( no problem with the paint that is..... sometimes have a problem with my patience/ skill)

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

3 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

 

I was planning to turn the wheel by hand and keep the compass stationary. When I tried it though, it seemed easier to turn the compasses. As you have already deduced, the problem is stopping any wobble.

 

As for black and white - so far I have stuck with humbrol. I have no problems with their red and buff ( no problem with the paint that is..... sometimes have a problem with my patience/ skill)

 

Jon

Yep, those are our two great issues: Wobble and Flow .

 

You're right about many other Humbrol colours flowing perfectly well, but black and white being problematic. I've seen it myself when using B&W for simple painting - as you say, they go off, dry up and so forth. The matt black can often be kept going I've found, but the matt white becomes almost a solid, cracked cake in the tin appallingly quickly. It would appear to be to do with the matting agent(s) Humbrol are using; a while ago, I bought a 14ml tin of their Gloss white (again, having read the suggestion on a forum and reasoning that I'd be applying matt varnish over it anyway) and found that it doesn't go off nearly so swiftly. Similarly, I've taken to using their satin Coal Black (no. 85 I think?) and that too retains a consistent viscosity over a decent length of time.

 

I'll be interested to see what the Phoenix Precision gloss black and white are like and will report back...

 

As to patience and skill, we're all in the same boat on that one! Do you remember a while ago that you and I and David had a discussion on here about these words and you argued in favour of 'capability' as being more apt? Interesting discussion, popped ino my mind just the other day.

[Jon4470]

I remember the discussion about capability. I guess I’m trying to increase my capability to produce consistent lining
 

I’ve been quiet on the modelling front recently- re-grouping a bit and deciding what to do next (plus plenty of jobs around the garden and house that require my time).

 

Finally got to grips with tidying the workbench yesterday. Trying to get organised and make sure everything is ready for the next project..... whatever that is !

 

 

[Chas Levin]

8 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

I remember the discussion about capability. I guess I’m trying to increase my capability to produce consistent lining
 

I’ve been quiet on the modelling front recently- re-grouping a bit and deciding what to do next (plus plenty of jobs around the garden and house that require my time).

 

Finally got to grips with tidying the workbench yesterday. Trying to get organised and make sure everything is ready for the next project..... whatever that is !

Tidying up and organising the workbench is a vital part of creative activity! I always enjoy that sort of thing, organising things, finding just the right place for things so that they're out of the way but within easy reach...

 

What sort of things do you typically model, in between the house and garden jobs that do indeed interfere with modelling time?

[Jon4470]

10 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Tidying up and organising the workbench is a vital part of creative activity! I always enjoy that sort of thing, organising things, finding just the right place for things so that they're out of the way but within easy reach...

 

What sort of things do you typically model, in between the house and garden jobs that do indeed interfere with modelling time?

 

How I wish that I enjoy tidying up!

I do like the results though ( and feel better for it) but I have a terrible habit of putting things down wherever and then leaving them there. This time I think I have made a big dent in the organisation ( and found tools that I’d forgotten that I had). Hopefully I ‘ll complete the job this weekend.

 

As for models, mainly locos and coaches. I’m slowly getting to a position to lay some track and create a layout as well. This will be based on the Harrogate Gas Works interchange at Bilton Junction on the Leeds Northern line. To be set in 1938.....give or take. I’ve found it very useful to have a goal to base the modelling on..... it focuses my efforts. For instance the coaches that I build are all for specific trains....not just random ones that I like. (Must admit that I’m sorely tempted by a streamline set and a triplet restaurant car.......one day)

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

11 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

How I wish that I enjoy tidying up!

I do like the results though ( and feel better for it) but I have a terrible habit of putting things down wherever and then leaving them there. This time I think I have made a big dent in the organisation ( and found tools that I’d forgotten that I had). Hopefully I ‘ll complete the job this weekend.

It's an acquired taste, tidying up - I guess actually it's the end results that I could be truly said to enjoy, rather than the work itself... but I think the dividing line is blurred sometimes, when we start to enjoy doing something because of our anticiption of the results... Hope it goes well and that you get everything the way you want it to be!

11 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

As for models, mainly locos and coaches. I’m slowly getting to a position to lay some track and create a layout as well. This will be based on the Harrogate Gas Works interchange at Bilton Junction on the Leeds Northern line. To be set in 1938.....give or take. I’ve found it very useful to have a goal to base the modelling on..... it focuses my efforts. For instance the coaches that I build are all for specific trains....not just random ones that I like. (Must admit that I’m sorely tempted by a streamline set and a triplet restaurant car.......one day)

 

Jon

Interesting: I shall look up the location to see what it's like. Focus like that is very helpful, though I must admit I do stray outside the lines (no pun intended) from time to time. It's a bit like taking a short holiday somewhere: there's the fun of novelty and discovery, enjoyment for a time and then the plasure of returning home...

Not having looked it up yet, is it the case that your chosen location would never have seen either a streamliner or a restaurant triplet?

If that's because of the layout of the layout (so to speak), very tight curves for instance, then that is a slight obstacle it's true, but if it's because that type of rolling stock wouldn't usually be seen in that location, couldn't you use the First Rule of Modelling excuse and invent some Specials?

[Jon4470]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

, but if it's because that type of rolling stock wouldn't usually be seen in that location, couldn't you use the First Rule of Modelling excuse and invent some Specials?

I was thinking that a big problem somewhere near York station blocked the ECML.....so the big trains were diverted via Church Fenton, Wetherby, Harrogate, Ripon and on to Northallerton. That should be sufficient. 

 

That scenario sort of happened in reality - but only once, as far as I am aware, and that was in 1967 I think.

 

You can see the sort of stuff I get up to on my layout topic in my signature.

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

10 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

I was thinking that a big problem somewhere near York station blocked the ECML.....so the big trains were diverted via Church Fenton, Wetherby, Harrogate, Ripon and on to Northallerton. That should be sufficient. 

 

That scenario sort of happened in reality - but only once, as far as I am aware, and that was in 1967 I think.

Perfect! And 30 years is a mere blip, easily swallowed by our imaginations I think

10 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

You can see the sort of stuff I get up to on my layout topic in my signature.

 

Jon

I'm so sorry Jon - for some reason I didn't spot that! I'll read through it over the weekend...